2022-2023 Tony Award Eligibility Rulings Thread- Page 5

[The Distinctive Baritone]

Posted: 2/3/23 at 11:43am

JudyDenmark said: "Gender is a relevant social construct to the people who have been fighting for women’s rights for decades/centuries. I fight for LGBT rights too, but the existence and rights of non-binary people doesn’t and shouldn’t erase binary people (cis or trans).”

 

I agree, but philosophically, one can’t simultaneously argue that gender is a social construct that should be abolished AND separate people by gender categories.

Obviously, biologically speaking, we have men, we have women, and rarely, we have people who are intersex. All of this should be pretty unimportant except when it comes to procreation and things like that, but human beings have a tendency to make it much more important than it needs to be - gender roles, gender presentation, etc. This has now come to a head where this social construct of gender (based on biological sex) is being deconstructed in a number of ways. This has resulted in people who both view the world and define themselves and others almost entirely by their gender, as well as those who take the opposite approach and try to take a “gender-blind” approach. I’m not going to make an argument for either, but I do feel that by spending so much time thinking about this stuff, one can be like a dog chasing its own tail. So when it comes to acting awards, which can never be voted on objectively anyway, the best solution I think is to attempt to take both approaches simultaneously by eliminating gender from the titles of the categories while still keeping inclusivity in mind while voting.

 

[George in DC]

Posted: 2/3/23 at 1:10pm

I like the way the "Helen Hayes Awards" in the Washington DC area does it.

From their website: "Starting in 2020, the Helen Hayes Awards performer categories are adjudicated as gender inclusive and expanded to ten nominees each (from the previous cap of five). Two recipients are now chosen for each category to maintain the usual number of recipients that are awarded and honored."

 

I also agree that a "Best Ensemble" award is ling overdue.

 

[BJR]

Posted: 2/3/23 at 1:21pm

Luminaire2 said: "

1. Best performer in a dramatic leading role: Musical
2. Best performer in a comedic leading role: Musical
3. Best featured performer in a dramatic leading role:Musical
4. Best featured performer in a comedic leading role: Musical
5. Best performer in a dramatic leading role: Play
6. Best performer in a comedic leading role: Play
7. Best featured performer in a dramatic leading role:Play
8. Best featured performer in a comedic leading role:Play

 


There you go. 8 categories, 8 acting awards. Easy. No fuss, no muss.

Now let’s add a ninth and tenth category:

9. Best Ensemble in a musical

10. Best ensemble in a play"

 

Not mad at this. Though I think "actor" is gender neutral. Could prob stay Best Actor, once we get used to their not being a "Best Actress."

[BJR]

Posted: 2/3/23 at 1:30pm

Broadway61004 said: "I would assume it would be by show (ala Emmys or Golden Globes), but that's an interesting point/suggestion. And there would be all sorts of questions about what's a comedy, what's a drama, etc.
 

I think that's right. And yeah, there will be debate and positioning for category, like there is at the Emmys and Globes. But better that then about someone's gender!

And Best Ensemble isnt happening because they don't wanna give out 20 Tonys and dilute the exclusivity. Sorry but true.

Lastly, again, if you look at the Drama League Distinguished Performance Award, one gender is not nominated nor wins more often. But even comparing Actor and Actress at the Tonys, I don't think anyone would've beat, Ebersole in 2007, Patti in 2008, Alice Ripley in 2009, Sutton in 2011, Audra in 2012, Bette in 2017, Katrina Lenk in 2018 etc

 

[Jeff Tupolski]

Posted: 2/3/23 at 4:12pm

I don’t like the idea of separating comedic and dramatic performances into different categories. This divide works for the Emmys given the abundance of content on TV each year, but the small number of Broadway shows each season would likely result in a lot of thin categories going forward.

[bwaylvsong1]

Posted: 2/3/23 at 6:53pm

I think the most logical solution would be to keep all eight acting categories and add a ninth: Best Performance by a Trans and/or Non-binary Performer in a Play or Musical.  A non-binary performer in any eligible role would be in this category, and a trans performer can choose whether they wish to be in this category or the category with which they most closely identify.

Updated On: 2/3/23 at 06:53 PM

[Elfuhbuh]

Posted: 2/3/23 at 7:04pm

^ I mean, are there really enough trans/nonbinary actors to warrant an entire separate category just for them? As was mentioned earlier in this thread, that would easily fall into “Aaron Tveit for Best Actor” territory every year, so it would come across like actors are being given awards just for being trans instead of for their actual performances.

[bwaylvsong1]

Posted: 2/3/23 at 9:48pm

Elfuhbuh said: "^ I mean, are there really enough trans/nonbinary actors to warrant an entire separate category just for them? As was mentioned earlier in this thread, that would easily fall into “Aaron Tveit for Best Actor” territory every year, so it would come across like actors are being given awards just for being trans instead of for their actual performances."

They don’t have to give the award if there aren’t enough potential nominees.  This year, theoretically there would be at least two nominees already.

[Phillyguy]

Posted: 2/4/23 at 10:00pm

bwaylvsong1 said: "Elfuhbuh said: "^ I mean, are there really enough trans/nonbinary actors to warrant an entire separate category just for them? As was mentioned earlier in this thread, that would easily fall into “Aaron Tveit for Best Actor” territory every year, so it would come across like actors are being given awards just for being trans instead of for their actual performances."

They don’t have to give the award if there aren’t enough potential nominees. This year, theoretically there would be at least two nominees already."

What if there is only one nominee? Do you win by default or can you still lose if you don’t get enough votes? Either way, doesn’t seem necessarily the best outcome  

 

[hork]

Posted: 2/4/23 at 10:41pm

The most logical solution is to keep it the way it is, because the awards are for "actor" and "actress" and everyone in a play or musical is one or both of those.

[RippedMan]

Posted: 2/4/23 at 10:43pm

Phillyguy said: "bwaylvsong1 said: "Elfuhbuh said: "^ I mean, are there really enough trans/nonbinary actors to warrant an entire separate category just for them? As was mentioned earlier in this thread, that would easily fall into “Aaron Tveit for Best Actor” territory every year, so it would come across like actors are being given awards just for being trans instead of for their actual performances."

They don’t have to give the award if there aren’t enough potential nominees. This year, theoretically there would be at least two nominees already."

What if there is only one nominee? Do you win by default or can you still lose if you don’t get enough votes? Either way, doesn’t seem necessarily the best outcome

Well Aaron Tveit won Best Actor for arguably the worst performance I've seen acting wise on a Broadway stage. (Vocally he was fantastic) with no other nominations. 

 

[bdn223]

Posted: 2/5/23 at 12:21pm

RippedMan said: "Phillyguy said: "bwaylvsong1 said: "Elfuhbuh said: "^ I mean, are there really enough trans/nonbinary actors to warrant an entire separate category just for them? As was mentioned earlier in this thread, that would easily fall into “Aaron Tveit for Best Actor” territory every year, so it would come across like actors are being given awards just for being trans instead of for their actual performances."

They don’t have to give the award if there aren’t enough potential nominees. This year, theoretically there would be at least two nominees already."

What if there is only one nominee? Do you win by default or can you still lose if you don’t get enough votes? Either way, doesn’t seem necessarily the best outcome

Well Aaron Tveit won Best Actor for arguably the worst performance I've seen acting wise on a Broadway stage. (Vocally he was fantastic) with no other nominations.

"

I think everyone including Aaron Tveit, himself, acknowledges that while he technically won a Tony Award for Moulin Rogue, the voters gave it to him because of his career in musical theater and his lack of even nomination for Catch Me if You Can, and more importantly Next to Normal. He basically said so much in his acceptance speech thanking Tom & Brian despite them having nothing to do with Moulin Rouge.

But using the 2019-2020 season and 2021 Tony Awards though is a counterpoint to those who say creating a third performance category for those who don’t feel represented by Actor/Actress will cheapen the value of an award win, let alone a nomination. The Tony nominating committees over the years have shows they are not afraid to deny a performance/production/element nomination that should of gotten it by default due to a small eligibility pool. Lest we forget that Lightning Thief despite playing its entire 16 week limited run received 0 nominations leaving several categories with empty nomination slots. In doing so the committee made it so that Tveit did not end up winning a Tony by default, as voters options went from Tveit of McCarrell, where one of them had to win, to Tveit or no award given out that night.

Updated On: 2/5/23 at 12:21 PM

[pethian]

Posted: 2/5/23 at 7:27pm

hork said: "The most logical solution is to keep it the way it is, because the awards are for "actor" and "actress" and everyone in a play or musical is one or both of those."

Correct me if I'm mistaken, but  regarding the above, isn't the issue that non-binary persons do not identify as either an actor or an actress?

 

[jacobsnchz14]

Posted: 4/11/23 at 5:11pm

https://www.broadwayworld.com/article/Tony-Awards-Administration-Committee-Determines-Eligibility-for-2022-2023-Season-20230411

The committee made the following determinations:

Stephen McKinley Henderson will be considered eligible in the Best Performance by an Actor in a Leading Role in a Play category for his performance in Between Riverside and Crazy.

Michael Yeargan and 59 Productions will be considered jointly eligible in the Best Scenic Design of a Play category for their work on Pictures From Home.

Dane Laffrey and Sven Ortel will be considered jointly eligible in the Best Scenic Design of a Musical category for their work on Parade.

Robert Brill and Finn Ross will be considered jointly eligible in the Best Scenic Design of a Musical category for their work on Bob Fosse's Dancin'.

Linedy Genao will be considered eligible in the Best Performance by an Actress in a Leading Role in a Musical category for her performance in Bad Cinderella.

All other eligibility will be consistent with the opening night credits.

Updated On: 4/11/23 at 05:11 PM

[quizking101]

Posted: 4/11/23 at 5:15pm

So all three from PICTURES FROM HOME are considered leading? Yikes. Wanamaker should be bumped to Featured since she is barely a whole character.

I feel like Burstein or Lane are going to pull off a surprise nod

[JSquared2]

Posted: 4/11/23 at 5:23pm

It doesn't seem to say whether Riverside and Crazy is a new play or a revival?

[steve.sometime]

Posted: 4/11/23 at 5:28pm

It didn't mention the choreography in Dancin'. Does it mean it's eligible?

[quizking101]

Posted: 4/11/23 at 8:40pm

steve.sometime said: "It didn't mention the choreography in Dancin'. Does it mean it's eligible?"

I am VERY curious about this. I would assume that with no explicit indication that it is ineligible, it is in the running.

It’s also not a step-for-step recreation of the original. Many pieces have been adapted from other shows or are new to Broadway so maybe it’s considered new enough. Granted, the nominating committee may not nominate it but we will see

[Broadway61004]

Posted: 4/11/23 at 8:42pm

JSquared2 said: "It doesn't seem to say whetherRiverside and Crazyis a new play or a revival?"

I assume this means it's considered new. Since it's its Broadway debut, they would have had to specify that it was being considered a revival if that's how they were going.

[Wayman_Wong]

Posted: 4/11/23 at 9:10pm

''I think everyone including Aaron Tveit, acknowledges that while he technically won a Tony Award for Moulin Rogue, the voters gave it to him because of his career in musical theater and his lack of even nomination for Catch Me if You Can, and more importantly Next to Normal. He basically said so much in his acceptance speech thanking Tom & Brian despite them having nothing to do with Moulin Rouge.''

So many factors go into whether someone's nominated or wins. It's more than talent; there's timing, the competition; the season; whether it's still running at Tony time; the reviews, and plain luck. In Aaron Tveit's case, it was just his time. He was giving an acclaimed performance in a role the N.Y. Times critic Ben Brantley says he was born to play. ''Moulin Rouge!'' was a hit, and this latest work capped off a career where he had found fans and favor on Broadway. I'd argue that Tveit won the Tony for playing Christian, AND he was overdue to be recognized by his peers. 

For the record, the Tonys should've nominated Chris McCarrell in ''The Lightning Theif,.'' as the only other Best Actor candidate to compete with Tveit. McCarrell, who made his Broadway debut in ''Les Miserables,'' was wonderful and winning as Percy Jackson in his Young Adult musical. it was lame of the Tony nominators to snub him, and it was equally classy of Tveit to reach out to McCarrell because Tveit knows how it feels to be passed over in the past for Tony nominations. 

Anyway, congrats to Tveit on wrapping up his recent return run at ''Moulin Rouge!,'' and performing a priceless ''Pippin'' parody on Season 2 of ''Schmigadoon!'' 

 

Updated On: 4/11/23 at 09:10 PM

[MayAudraBlessYou2]

Posted: 4/12/23 at 10:37am

Dancin specifically credits Bob Fosse as the choreographer and Christine Colby Jaques is credited with "reproduction of Mr. Fosse's choreography". I don't know how you can argue that she's eligible if they are openly saying she is reproducing choreography. It's the same situation as when a revival uses the original orchestrations of a musical and therefore cannot compete for Best Orchestrations since its merely reproducing what has already been created.

[bdn223]

Posted: 4/12/23 at 11:12am

steve.sometime said: "It didn't mention the choreography in Dancin'. Does it mean it's eligible?"

Choreography in the billing in credited to Bob Fosse, so as he died over 35 years ago its safe to assume they did not submit or attempt to submit his work for Best Choreography. 

Remember rulings are only made when Producers petition for categorization placement that is not in line with opening night billing. The only thing that we are seeing in terms of recent rulings are when a production has no performers billed above the title the committee must determine if any performer should be considered in the lead actor/actress categories and more recently the determination of if a show utilizes projections as part of its scenic design are they significant enough to warrant a joint nomination for the projection designer alongside a productions listed scenic designer. 

None of these determinations are really surprising. My only semi-surprise is based of this Amy Herzog's new translation/adaptation of A Doll's House work is not eligible, despite cutting down a third of a classic 3 Act play that typically runs over 150-160 minutes to just over 100 minutes without an intermission. 

[JoeW4]

Posted: 4/12/23 at 12:03pm

bdn223 said: "My only semi-surprise is based of this Amy Herzog's new translation/adaptation ofA Doll's Housework is not eligible, despite cutting down a third of a classic 3 Act play that typically runs over 150-160 minutes to just over 100 minutes without an intermission."

 

This doesn’t surprise me at all. Cutting/trimming happens all times with classic plays, even when there’s no adaptor credited. You wouldn't count it as a new play every time a Shakespeare play was cut down to 100 minutes.

It seems to me that the question is: did the other changes substantially re-imagine, re-interpret, re-frame, or otherwise assert her own artistic voice enough to warrant calling it a “new play by Amy Herzog, based on A Doll’s House.” And having seen it, I don’t think they can really make a case for it. Which isn’t to say her contributions weren’t valuable – it’s just that it wasn’t the assignment she was hired for. 

There’s some precedent for this in Tony designation, but it’s even more common with the Oliviers. Year after year we see classic plays given a new treatment by playwrights, but still compete in the revival category. It’s also how they do it at the Drama Desks. It’s just part of the standard practice of reviving classic plays that were translated from other languages, and the consensus in the industry seems to be that they don’t count as new plays. 

I do think, however, that there’s a case to be made for including Herzog in the Revival nomination, the same way they do for the playwrights of plays that are nominated via the classics rule. 

 

[bdn223]

Posted: 4/12/23 at 12:08pm

JoeW4 said: "I do think, however, that there’s a case to be made for including Herzog in the Revival nomination, the same way they do for the playwrights of plays that are nominated via the classics rule.

"

That's what I was expecting, and the lack of an announcement makes it clear that is not happening.  

[JSquared2]

Posted: 4/12/23 at 1:11pm

Broadway61004 said: "JSquared2 said: "It doesn't seem to say whetherRiverside and Crazyis a new play or a revival?"

I assume this means it's considered new. Since it's its Broadway debut, they would have had to specify that it was being considered a revival if that's how they were going."

 

Possibly -- but not necessarily.  Recent examples like Waverly Gallery, This is Our Youth and WiT were all considered revivals -- even though they were making their Broadway debuts (and would not be considered "classics".