Jeff Loeffelholz suicide news coverage- Page 9

[SmokeyLady]

Posted: 7/14/18 at 1:55pm

Fosse76 said: "Bette's Turban said:"Or fear of being unemployed. Or fear of not being hired again by producers who get a lot of product up. I can think of lots of reasons why they wouldn’t speak up. It’s not easy."

That's not the same thing as being "prohibited.""

If your going to play around with words like that... then you are right.  It’s worst .

[Tag]

Posted: 7/14/18 at 2:14pm

Well now that we know the Weissler's weren't opposed to buyouts...the plot thickens.

[Popular]

Posted: 7/14/18 at 2:14pm

Full disclosure off the top that I have not read through the entire thread. Sorry if these points were already made:

1) First off, my condolences to the cousin posting here, to the rest of his family, and his extended family of friends. Having just lost my best friend to suicide about three weeks ago I can now sadly say from experience that it a very specific and painful grief I can’t compare to any other loss I’ve suffered.

2) People don’t COMMIT suicide. It’s not like murder or rape. Suicide is an event, not a crime. Please take the time to kindly correct someone who innocently and unknowingly uses that expression. It is more correct to say someone died by suicide.

3) Ask questions! Be a safe place for someone to tell you how they are feeling. When it’s too late the questions will never be answered. It is a MYTH that asking someone if they are planning to harm themselves will plant the idea in their head. They aren’t going get the idea to kill themselves just because you asked.

4) People don’t want to die. They want the pain to go away. It may be obvious to show concern for people who exhibit signs of depression but watch out for your strong friends too.

[Fosse76]

Posted: 7/15/18 at 3:23am

SmokeyLady said: "Fosse76 said: "Bette's Turban said:"Or fear of being unemployed. Or fear of not being hired again by producers who get a lot of product up. I can think of lots of reasons why they wouldn’t speak up. It’s not easy."

That's not the same thing as being "prohibited.""

If your going to play around with words like that... then you are right. It’s worst ."

I wasn't "playing around with words." Prohibited dreams "to forbid by authority." Fear of retribution isn't even ciscoe to being the same thing.  But then again,  I know how to read,  so it's understandable you are confused.

[Fosse76]

Posted: 7/15/18 at 3:38am

Popular said:
2) People don’t COMMIT suicide. It’s not like murder or rape. Suicide is an event, not a crime. Please take the time to kindly correct someone who innocently and unknowingly uses that expression. It is more correct to say someone died by suicide.

No. It is grammatically correct. "Commit" means "carry out or perpetrate," it is NOT exclusive to acts of crime or sin. However,  experts agree that using the term denotes some type of crime or sin,  AMD dissuade its use due to the stigma associated with the common usage associated with "commit." But as I have said,  it is grammatically correct. 


"4) People don’t want to die. They want the pain to go away. It may be obvious to show concern for people who exhibit signs of depression but watch out for your strong friends too. "

That's a bit of a stretch.  While it may be true that most people who commit suicide don't really want to die,  it's not true for all. 

[Miles2Go2]

Posted: 7/15/18 at 8:27am

Fosse76, Popular just lost her best friend to suicide so maybe you can act more compassionately toward her. Also, as someone who worked as mental health professional in a prison for 24 years, I can tell you that her language is consistent with how the mental health field talks about suicide.

Also, I’m not sure why you are intent on splitting hairs about whether cast Chicago members are not “prohibited” from speaking out about unfair work practices. If these multiple reports prove true, then there may indeed not be anything in their contracts that “prohibits” them from speaking out (I’m guessing the unions would prohibit that sort of contract language). However, if they’ve created a hostile environment toward anyone who speaks out and is a whistleblower then the end result is practically the same. Even those of us who have been in less problematic but still troublesome work environs in the past have not usually been whisteblowers. Considerations about being fired for “cause” or bullied until until they quit could be reasons people would be afraid to speak out. Add to that, the fear of being labeled a “troublemaker” in the industry. New York has one of the highest costs of living indexes of any place in the world  The fear of being unemployed, unemployable, broke and locked out of your chosen profession could act as a mighty incentive to not speak out. 

I would hope we could all keep our thoughts (but of course people are free not to) here on Jeff’s life and sad, early demise and the search for truth on any connection between his work conditions and his death. As a mental health professional, I had the unfortunate experience of patients dying from suicide. It was gut-wrenching every time. I will never forget them. It was them I was thinking of during a pivotal point in Spring Awakening as I cried my eyes out. I can only imagine the heartache of losing a friend or family member to suicide. I’ve been blessed to be spared that experience. I hold Jeff, his partner and all Jeff’s loved ones in my thoughts.

Updated On: 7/15/18 at 08:27 AM

[binau]

Posted: 7/15/18 at 8:38am

"Fosse76, Popular just lost her best friend to suicide so maybe you can act more compassionately toward her. Also, as someone who worked as mental health professional in a prison for 24 years, I can tell you that her language is consistent with how the mental health field talks about suicide."

I agree - I mean we can argue over semantics but the general reasoning is pretty consistent with the way suicide is understood and described in the academic literature, too. 

[Popular]

Posted: 7/15/18 at 4:48pm

qolbinau said: ""Fosse76, Popular just lost her best friend to suicide so maybe you can act more compassionately toward her. Also, as someone who worked as mental health professional in a prison for 24 years, I can tell you that her language is consistent with how the mental health field talks about suicide."

Iagree - I mean we can argue over semantics but the general reasoning is pretty consistent with the way suicide is understood and described in the academic literature, too."

Thank you, Miles2go2 and qolbinau - I was indeed speaking from an informed mental health professional’s perspective. Not really up to arguing with someone who chooses to make what I wrote about grammar. 

[BroadwayConcierge]

Posted: 7/17/18 at 2:56pm

From Broadway News: "Investigator hired by the Weisslers after Chicago harassment case alleges that Equity and others have been blocking his efforts."

Oh man.

https://broadway.news/2018/07/17/actors-equity-hires-its-own-lawyer-to-investigate-chicago-harassment/

[BobbyBubby]

Posted: 7/17/18 at 3:05pm

Good! The internal investigator is only there to see if the Weisslers need protecting.  These internal investigations always magically find their client innocent. 

[geaj]

Posted: 7/18/18 at 10:58pm

The stories in the links above are just sadly fascinating. I hope they find justice in this situation.

[dearalanaaaa]

Posted: 7/18/18 at 11:56pm

This is probably reading too deep, but after his death the flyers now say "It would be criminal to miss!" Are they planning to be closed? It's strange for it to read that without a closing notice? Maybe they mean he missed his performance? I don't know...

[ethan231h]

Posted: 7/19/18 at 12:11am

dearalanaaaa said: "This is probably reading too deep, but after his death the flyers now say "It would be criminal to miss!" Are they planning to be closed? It's strange for it to read that without a closing notice? Maybe they mean he missed his performance? I don't know..."

i was sorta thinking that too.....but idk.....doubt it 

[bwaylyric]

Posted: 7/19/18 at 12:26am

^^^

That’s just a poor choice of words and bad marketing. 

[Anakela]

Posted: 7/19/18 at 12:52am

dearalanaaaa said: "This is probably reading too deep, but after his death the flyers now say "It would be criminal to miss!" Are they planning to be closed? It's strange for it to read that without a closing notice? Maybe they mean he missed his performance? I don't know..."

That’s the tag from at least the London production earlier this year (see the end of this trailer), and maybe even on Broadway before then, if they recycle them. 

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=6QOKwGnaAPU

[Tag]

Posted: 7/19/18 at 9:12pm

Riedel has FINALLY picked up this story.  Not many new details though.

[HogansHero]

Posted: 7/20/18 at 9:20am

Tag said: "Riedel has FINALLY picked up this story. Not many new details though."

I think it would be more accurate to say that Riedel picked up a pre-packaged piece by (I am guessing here) Bobbie's people. And then he spoke to his usual "producer" source (or, as he often does, imagined what that producer would say and treated it as a reality).

[The Distinctive Baritone]

Posted: 7/20/18 at 11:40am

Wow. Riedel’s piece is clearly meant to defend Bobbie and shift blame away from him and the production. He even suggests Loeffelholz exaggerated his version of events and must have had “other issues” going on. Riedel clearly had an agenda here, and it is downright disrespectful to Loeffelholz’s memory.

I’m sure Bobbie and Stiffelman had no idea what would happen after they behaved the way they did. They are not necessarily bad people. But come on, they did a cruel thing and must accept at least some responsibility.

[newintown]

Posted: 7/20/18 at 11:50am

I think that it's quite hyperbolic for Riedel to state that "Bobbie is well liked." He's certainly not loathed like Arthur Laurents, but he's also nowhere near as beloved as Jack O'Brien.

He definitely drew a lucky card, riding the coattails of Ann Reinking (who is loved) on her Chicago production. His career, with no other really significant directing success, shows that.

Updated On: 7/20/18 at 11:50 AM

[Kad]

Posted: 7/20/18 at 12:00pm

Naturally, when faced with a story with actual weight behind it, Riedel flopsweats.

[CurtainPullDowner]

Posted: 7/20/18 at 12:06pm

Another point Reidel makes in his (non) story is that someone should be fired and it ain't Bobbie, leaving only one candidate.  I'm wondering what the union-legal ramifications would be to fire that person.

After all the years there she must have some "dirt" on someone to hang onto the job for so long.

[adamgreer]

Posted: 7/20/18 at 12:12pm

Did the Weisslers pay Riedel to right that piece? I mean, Jesus. He really tries to shift the blame right on to the victim. Pathetic.

[Wayman_Wong]

Posted: 7/20/18 at 12:56pm

Frankly, I'm surprised that Michael Riedel touched this story at all. I thought he might recuse himself because he's always been open about what good buddies he is with the Weisslers. 

In an interview with the Producer's Perspective, Ken Davenport asked Riedel if he had any favorite producers, and Riedel said:

''A lot of them are friends of mine now because I’ve covered them for so long. I always get a kick out of Fran and Barry Weissler. They’re not as active as they used to be – they used to do a lot of shows and you could always get them on the phone and they would talk to you about everything. They were fun, they were characters and personalities. They always had funny quotes and they were up to funny tricks and gags and all that kind of stuff and I became friendly with them early on because they were sort of being dismissed as doing these cheap revivals with a star and everything they did was cheap, they were the cheap producers and I wrote an article once saying, “They may be cheap but here’s the track record – if you invested with Fran and Barry Weissler, nine out of ten productions would have made a profit. So if that’s cheap, I’m all for cheap,” and they appreciated that because the Times was like, “Rocco Landesman, he went to Yale and he’s an intellectual and we love Rocco but Fran and Barry Weissler, they’re rug traders practically.” So I always identified with people who weren’t part of the New York Times club.''

Speaking of the N.Y. Times, why has it been so conspicuously absent in reporting this story? The Times website ran a short about the probe a few days ago, but it was by the Associated Press.

Updated On: 7/20/18 at 12:56 PM

[HogansHero]

Posted: 7/20/18 at 1:03pm

adamgreer said: "Did the Weisslers pay Riedel to right [sic] that piece? I mean, Jesus. He really tries to shift the blame right on to the victim. Pathetic."

Anything is possible but as I said above I think it was set up by one of Bobbie's people (or himself). The Weisslers don't have a lot of reason to take Bobbie's side-one could argue rehabilitating Stiffleman would be more in their interest. 

@Wayman, are you suggesting Riedel has ever recused himself from writing about anyone because they were his "buddies"? LOL. Seriously? 

[Wayman_Wong]

Posted: 7/20/18 at 1:21pm

No. But this conflict seems so conspicuous (to some of us).