“Broadway’s pandering to tourists has backfired big-time”
“Broadway’s pandering to tourists has backfired big-time”
#1“Broadway’s pandering to tourists has backfired big-time”
Posted: 4/21/18 at 1:31pm
Thoughts? I think what I’ve noticed is that more and more audiences are caring about the quality of shows over the substance. Just last season proved that. Dear Evan Hansen and Come From Away beat out the well known brand that was Groundhog Day. Sure, maybe a smart and in depth musical that really changed your entire philosophy on life wouldn't really work for the target audience of Jimmy Buffet(or with his music), but at least it would be a better written show.
https://nypost.com/2018/04/21/broadways-box-office-is-wasting-away-in-margaritaville/amp/
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#2Reply
Posted: 4/21/18 at 2:15pm
I mean, Oleksinski isn't wrong but there are plenty of newer things on and off Broadway right now that are doing fairly well that aren't "pandering," to use his term. The cream always rises...
I get his overall point, but also alluding to this season as due to Trump? Eh.
RippedMan
Broadway Legend Joined: 8/14/05
Impossible2
Broadway Legend Joined: 3/31/18
#5Reply
Posted: 4/21/18 at 3:06pm
RippedMan said: "I am surprised given the success of Hamilton, Dear Evan Hansen, Come from Away, Fun Home, that we haven’t seen a bunch of new original works popping up! Instead it’s just juxebox and movie musicals."
I think they are actually the problem.
The shows have outpriced themselves for the average person and it's the New Yorkers who have stopped going to the theatre not the tourists.
People who used to to go all the time now go to one show instead of 3 because tickets prices are so astronomical for the 'hyped' shows.
#6Reply
Posted: 4/21/18 at 3:11pm
Impossible2 said: "RippedMan said: "I am surprised given the success of Hamilton, Dear Evan Hansen, Come from Away, Fun Home, that we haven’t seen a bunch of new original works popping up! Instead it’s just juxebox and movie musicals."
I think they are actually the problem.
The shows have outpriced themselves for the average person and it's the New Yorkers who have stopped going to the theatre not the tourists.
People who used to to go all the time now go to one show instead of 3 because tickets prices are so astronomical for the 'hyped' shows."
Yes, I think this is a fundamental issue that's affecting things. It's hard to keep the masses going to the theatre if only the richest of the rich can afford to attend regularly in the first place. It's not like we're in the old days where going to a Broadway show was like a live version of going to the movie theatre.
"Was uns befreit, das muss stärker sein als wir es sind." -Tanz der Vampire
Impossible2
Broadway Legend Joined: 3/31/18
#7Reply
Posted: 4/21/18 at 3:18pm
Elfuhbuh said: "Impossible2 said: "RippedMan said: "I am surprised given the success of Hamilton, Dear Evan Hansen, Come from Away, Fun Home, that we haven’t seen a bunch of new original works popping up! Instead it’s just juxebox and movie musicals."
I think they are actually the problem.
The shows have outpriced themselves for the average person and it's the New Yorkers who have stopped going to the theatre not the tourists.
People who used to to go all the time now go to one show instead of 3 because tickets prices are so astronomical for the 'hyped' shows."
Yes, I think this is a fundamental issue that's affecting things. It's hard to keep the masses going to the theatre if only the richest of the rich can afford to attend regularly in the first place. It's not like we're in the old days where going to a Broadway show was like a live version of going to the movie theatre."
Even the most ardent of theatre lovers on here spend most of their time trying to find the cheapest ticket they can get via rush, lottery, TDF, Tkts etc
When you have Netflix etc offering 1,000's of hours of entertainment for an entire family for $10 a month, things are bound to suffer.
#8Reply
Posted: 4/21/18 at 3:21pm
The writer cleary didn’t do his research. Yes Margaritaville, and Spongebob are financial disaters. Frozen has a $68 million advance and was the 4th highest grossing show of the week....
Harry Potter and the cursed Child sold out 95% of the seat for over 400 performances in 24 hours.....
If they are looking for a new Riedel, keep searching. At least Riedel used gossip to support his opinions and not data anyone in the industry can easily look up themsevles.
Also it takes years to develop a new show. We’ve known Frozen was coming in this season for 3 years now. Same goes for Cursed Child, and King Kong next season. It is usually the smaller shows that suprise us, because they are about Buzz and not brand. Add to that there just aren’t any open theaters this spring for a small off broadway transfer to get in this season. All of the smaller/less desierable theaters are either still occupied from last season. The only theaters currently empty Booth, Cort, Belasco, Neaderlander and Hudson, have shows already booked to play them either over the summer or early fall, all of which were announced months ago. There was only one show that announced a January closing in October/November (Charlie and the Chocolate factory). The Lunt is one of if not the most desirable theater, and the last non spectacle show to play there was Private Lives in 83. Its the success of last seasons small shows lead to a dearth of them this season. Its like how the 2008- 2009 season with Next to Normal, Billy Elliot, Hair, West Side story, rock of ages, and God of Carnage, were all successful and thus the 2009-2010 season was deemed the season of the Juke Box with American idiot, Come From Away, Fella, Million Dollar Quartet, the Addams Addams the seasons only “original” musical being Memphis. If I remember correctly in his Should/Will win for the 2010 Tonys Brantly openly pondered, “Why couldnt Next to Normal of delayed 2 months for its transfer so it could of swept the Tonys”. Theater comes in cycles.
Wayman_Wong
Broadway Legend Joined: 4/22/04
#9Reply
Posted: 4/21/18 at 3:40pm
Hindsight's always 20-20. ''Next to Normal'' opened April 15, 2009, obviously to make the Tony deadline and felt it was competitive. For Brantley to suggest it should've opened in, say, June, is short-sighted. I'll bet that its 11 2009 Tony nominations and 4 wins helped ''Next to Normal'' establish itself. If it had opened in June, could it have lasted nearly a year until the next Tonys? By the way, it's not as if the next season (2009-2010) was that skimpy. There were about 12 new musicals. And at the time ''Memphis'' opened in the fall, it got many wonderful reviews (outside the N.Y.Times pan), but no one picked it to win the Tony then. In fact, I remember a number of people on this board predicting ''Memphis'' would fold quickly and be forgotten by Tony time. But as one new show after another, opened and fell short, ''Memphis'' got the last laugh, winning Best Musical from the Tonys, Drama Desk and OCC.
As for tourists, I know most everyone loves to knock them, but the League says tourists make up 61% of Broadway audiences.
Without them, there would be no Broadway.
#10Reply
Posted: 4/21/18 at 4:06pm
bdn223 has much good and perceptive stuff to say above.
Wayman, I know you adore Memphis and I applaud your tenacity but I think it was the default winner in a weak season.
Things are cyclical in the theatre (and elsewhere) and putting too much emphasis on a snap shot (viz., a single season) is a fool's errand.
UncleCharlie
Broadway Legend Joined: 6/26/16
#11Reply
Posted: 4/21/18 at 6:39pm
I've had great health for 40 years but I woke up yesterday with a sore throat and a runny nose and still feel like crap today so i guess my glory days of great health are far behind me.
The conclusions this article reaches on a sample size of 3 or 4 shows during one single season are so stupid on it's face, hard to believe someone thought it was worth a discussion.
Emmaloucbway
Broadway Legend Joined: 10/16/11
MrPeach
Chorus Member Joined: 4/12/17
#15Reply
Posted: 4/22/18 at 7:23am
The writer seemed to scoff at Frozen's 93% weekly gross. I don't think trying to appeal to Middle America is a realistic approach. Shows come and go. Each show has to provide "something" that audiences find appealing. Also, the marketing of the show helps in developing a show's durability. Aside from that, a show will have a longer shelf life if it is able to appeal to not only a domestic audience , but is attractive to foreign tourists. "Chicago" is an example of that. It has a lot to offer to its audiences: name recognition, a feature film with its name and a business model of having non-traditional performers amongst its cast. There are people who like sitting in an audience of a show that appeals to an adult crowd (instead of being in the midst of sea of rugrats). It remains to be seen that "The Cher Show" and the Donna Summer musical will have "legs" over the long run. (I grew up listening to both fabulous performers.)
"Noel [Coward] and I were in Paris once. Adjoining rooms, of course. One night, I felt mischievous, so I knocked on Noel's door, and he asked, 'Who is it?' I lowered my voice and said 'Hotel detective. Have you got a gentleman in your room?' He answered, 'Just a minute, I'll ask him.'" (Beatrice Lillie)
Impossible2
Broadway Legend Joined: 3/31/18
#16Reply
Posted: 4/22/18 at 12:17pm
If something as fantastic as The Great Comet can close in what 10 months and the Hello Dolly revival in 18, there is clearly little longevity left on Broadway unless you can luck out and create the next zeitgeist so you can sell overpriced tickets for a couple of years.
Bands Visit as fantastic as it is, seems to be faultering sales wise already with discounts being flung about everywhere, much more so than Comet did and it's been going almost the same length of time.
It will likely close soon if it doesn't have a good night at the Tony's and even then it's not going to 'crossover' into Hamilton territory or it'd have already done so.
Wayman_Wong
Broadway Legend Joined: 4/22/04
#17Reply
Posted: 4/22/18 at 12:35pm
HogansHero: I've never been shy about sticking up for ''Memphis'' because I don't think it gets all the credit it deserves. Thanks, but there's no need to applaud my tenacity; that recognition should go to the Tony-winning team of producers of ''Memphis,'' led by Randy Adams and Sue Frost, and THEIR tenacity. They believed enough in the show to hold FOUR out-of-town tryouts before bringing it to Broadway. I first saw it in 2004 at TheatreWorks in Mountain View, Calif., and even though they had just added a new song called ''Memphis Lives in Me'' and its Act II was problematic, the audience still ate it up. By the time it landed at the Shubert, they really had reworked Act II, dumping old songs and writing new ones. (How often do we hear about out-of-town tryouts of shows where the Broadway version has been barely changed?)
I agree with you that seasons are cyclical. And some are more competitive than others. But that shouldn't take away from the hard work that Joe DiPietro and David Bryan invested into ''Memphis.'' At the end of the day, a show rises or falls on its word of mouth, and ''Memphis'' was a real crowdpleaser, racking up about 1,200 performances. As I'm sure you well know, winning the Tony for Best Musical is no guarantee of a long run: ''Passion'' only made it to 280; ''Fun Home,'' 583. So whether you like ''Memphis'' or not, it beat some incredible odds, and is still quite an underdog story.
BroadwayConcierge
Broadway Legend Joined: 7/24/15
#18Reply
Posted: 4/22/18 at 12:38pm
Impossible2 said: "Bands Visit as fantastic as it is, seems to be faultering sales wise already with discounts being flung about everywhere, muchmore so than Comet did and it's been going almost the same length of time."
Uh, what universe are you in where there are Band's Visit discounts being "flung" around everywhere? The show is selling quite strongly, notably so for a small new musical that opened in the fall. It will be the toast of the Tony nominations a week from Tuesday and continue to sell out as it takes home several big awards in June.
As for this article, I couldn't agree more. We deserve better.
#19Reply
Posted: 4/22/18 at 12:38pm
I'm not certain longevity is a benchmark for quality, or the goal state in what is by design an ephemeral art form. Some of us will have seen Bette Midler in Hello Dolly, others won't even get to see the show at all... but that is what makes it special.
Also, a good tip-off for a bull**** article is when "Broadway" is doing anything, as though it has a collective will, or it is a unified thing.
#20Reply
Posted: 4/22/18 at 12:42pm
Impossible2 said: "If something as fantastic as The Great Comet can close in what 10 months and the Hello Dolly revival in 18,there is clearlylittle longevity left on Broadway unless you can luck out and create the next zeitgeist soyou can sell overpriced ticketsfor a couple of years."
You start from some faulty premises: that longevity was a feature of Broadway such that it has "left" [it was always reserved for a few of the biggest successes only] and that longevity is a good thing in any event.
Dolly is a success, financially and artistically, and its run has been a good one, allowing it to close on a high note. Rudin is, if nothing else, a student of theatre history, and that history is not paved with revolving doors. Comet failed and closed because of incompetence, and is not a good example of anything else.
Impossible2
Broadway Legend Joined: 3/31/18
#21Reply
Posted: 4/22/18 at 12:47pm
HogansHero said: "Impossible2 said: "If something as fantastic as The Great Comet can close in what 10 months and the Hello Dolly revival in 18,there is clearlylittle longevity left on Broadway unless you can luck out and create the next zeitgeist soyou can sell overpriced ticketsfor a couple of years."
You start from some faulty premises: that longevity was a feature of Broadway such that it has "left" [it was always reserved for a few of the biggest successes only] and that longevity is a good thing in any event.
Dolly is a success, financially and artistically, and its run has been a good one, allowing it to close on a high note. Rudin is, if nothing else, a student of theatre history, and that history is not paved with revolving doors. Comet failed and closed because of incompetence, and is not a good example of anything else."
Can't disagree with any of that :)
#22Reply
Posted: 4/22/18 at 4:33pm
I think I've liked this writer's articles on non-theatre topics before, but this one just wasn't very good. This thread alone has better viewpoints than his article did. If he's meant to be the new Riedel, who was often right in the end actually and a much more fun read, then the NY Post should just stop and stick to just the reviews.
"Hey little girls, look at all the men in shiny shirts and no wives!" - Jackie Hoffman, Xanadu, 19 Feb 2008
BroadwayMan5
Featured Actor Joined: 7/30/15
#23Reply
Posted: 4/22/18 at 4:41pm
Like it was said, new musicals take several years to develop. It's like a TV development season: copycats of This is Us didn't happen this season because most shows were already in development before This is Us became a hit.
Probably the reason we're seeing so many movie musicals and jukebox musicals is thanks to shows like Aladdin and Beautiful, which were extremely successful on arrival and are still running years later. We'll probably see the fruits of the success of shows like Hamilton, Dear Evan Hansen, and Come From Away in the next couple years.
Impossible2
Broadway Legend Joined: 3/31/18
#24Reply
Posted: 4/22/18 at 4:46pm
BroadwayConcierge said: "Impossible2 said: "Bands Visit as fantastic as it is, seems to be faultering sales wise already with discounts being flung about everywhere, muchmore so than Comet did and it's been going almost the same length of time."
Uh, what universe are you in where there areBand's Visitdiscounts being "flung" around everywhere? The show is selling quite strongly, notably so for a smallnew musical that opened in the fall. It will be the toast of the Tony nominations a week from Tuesday and continue to sell out as it takes home several big awards in June.
As for this article, I couldn't agree more. We deserve better."
There were tonnes of seats available while I was over there a few weeks ago and I got a Todays Tix message the other day offering cheap tickets.
Not dissing the show at all, I thought it was amazing. Maybe I'm wrong and it's just a slow time of year so they are offering discounts.
Rainah
Broadway Star Joined: 11/24/16
#25Reply
Posted: 4/22/18 at 6:37pm
I think the point is not that musicals should not be adaptions, or should not have mass appeal, or should not be about things middle america is interested in.
I think what people are really tying to rally against is pandering. The subject matter isn't important, as long as it's good. Everyone wants to see good musicals. Everyone wants to see musicals that have had thought put into them, that have good lyrics and clever stagings and an interesting book.
People tend not to like jukebox musicals because they're often strung together of popular songs, rather than integrated properly as a musical should be. That doesn't mean that jukebox musicals are bad. Just that they tend to not have the work put in to make them good.
If it's good, people will come.
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