Possible changes to be made to Book of Mormon

[Princeton2]

Posted: 3/12/21 at 1:20am

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-9353389/BAZ-BAMIGBOYE-Book-Mormon-creators-stage-rethink.html

[EDSOSLO858]

Posted: 3/12/21 at 2:02am

Thank God (or rather, maha naibu, Eebowai​​​​​​​) this is finally being addressed.

[Fan123]

Posted: 3/12/21 at 5:11am

Also interesting: "He [Matt Stone] also hinted he wanted to capture the stage show on film — to ensure 'a definitive record of intentions and context'."

[binau]

Posted: 3/12/21 at 7:26am

Of course I think everyone should be open to change but the devil is in the details and some of those details concern me, especially "The creatives, she felt, had not fully understood what 'it meant for black artists to do what they were doing': uttering blasphemous curses..."

To be fair, I imagine this is something that won't and can't be changed but the idea that someone should start to suggest the anti-religious tone of this musical is problematic seems absurd because it is the entire point of the musical. 

"On a personal level, she was concerned that audiences should see Nabulungi as an innocent, with dignity and heart — and not a stupid African girl."

On this, I thought the show did a great job at doing just this (making her seem innocent, with dignity and heart) - especially because one of the pivotal moments of the show is that it is actually the African characters - not the stupid white mormons - that have the more nuanced taken on religion such as "Salt Lake City" being perceived as a metaphorical not a literal haven. 

---

Whatever happens, I hope they can fix the problems and continue this brave and important show that only continues to be more relevant than ever as it feels like over the last 10 years the public discourse of religion seems to try and protect rather than criticise religion (even if private attitudes show that as always in progressive societies we are becoming less religious). 

 

[Owen22]

Posted: 3/13/21 at 12:48pm

The recent HBO Max show "The Flight Attendant" was almost ruined for me when one of the actors playing a pivotal role I recognized to be one of the writers of "Invisible Thread".  Last summer he gave a video statement on how racist Diane Paulus was when directing HIS musical that took place in Uganda (and not a very good musical and somewhat untruthful one IMO).

Anyway, at the end of his diatribe he smirks to the camera and says (I may be paraphrasing) "Oh. And "The Book of Mormon" IS racist."

I'm usually the person who realizes I am not of the skin color to recognize when something is racist or not.  But it seemed to me that something as satirical as BOM was beyond racism, as embracing-to-mock outre attitudes is what satire is about.

I am also someone who doesn't complain that much about wokeness, cancel culture and/or political correctness gone awry. I sorta think it's necessary (if a necessary evil) in this stage of our societal development. 

But I do hope "The Book of Mormon", one of the great and brilliant musicals of this new century, remains noticeably unchanged.

 

[Alex Kulak2]

Posted: 3/13/21 at 2:15pm

We won’t know for sure, but until the new production reopens, they might not even change the text. It could more be about actors playing things differently so that they sound more genuine and less mocking.

The core of the show (as well as most of Stone and Parker’s humor) is everyone acting kind of like idiots. It would be more interesting if they did the show from a place of innocence than a place of stupidity.

[LizzieCurry]

Posted: 3/13/21 at 7:13pm

I'm very glad they're doing this.

[Zion24]

Posted: 3/13/21 at 7:58pm

Owen22 said: "But I do hope "The Book of Mormon", one of the great and brilliant musicals of this new century, remains noticeably unchanged.

"

Amen. 

[ACL2006]

Posted: 3/13/21 at 9:02pm

I mean, when the show was at the top and raking in the $$$, why was nothing said then? Afraid to get fired?

[MollyJeanneMusic]

Posted: 3/13/21 at 9:58pm

ACL2006 said: "I mean, when the show was at the top and raking in the $$$, why was nothing said then? Afraid to get fired?"

For the record, many people have complained about this show’s racist tropes for years now.  It’s just that nobody was paying attention.

[The Distinctive Baritone]

Posted: 3/14/21 at 1:35am

I mean, of course TBOM is racist on some level, in the same way that The Producers is homophobic. But these characters are meant to be over the top stereotypes, and much of the humor comes from how offensive it is. It’s shock humor.

That said, not reopening it wouldn’t be the end of the world. The show has had a great life. It was hugely successful. Maybe it’s time to move 9.n

[Boq101]

Posted: 3/14/21 at 9:14am

Within New York people the discussion of BOM being racist has always been a discussion. Especially when the show also tends to affect the backstage culture of the show. I've had friends in the show both as Mormons and Ugandans express as much. Just look at how the show also goes out of its way to only use the white Mormon ensemble for any advertising. 

 

 

[NameGreg]

Posted: 3/14/21 at 10:46am

Never found the show offensive. The Ugandans come across as better and smarter than the Mormons.

I get the feeling this isn’t really going anywhere. Parker and Stone have never cared about censorship, I doubt they’d start now.

[Whatshisname]

Posted: 3/14/21 at 1:47pm

They should add Trump, Stephen Miller and Giuliani to “Spooky Mormon Hell Dream.”

Updated On: 3/14/21 at 01:47 PM

[SouthernCakes]

Posted: 3/14/21 at 4:00pm

This is a cash cow I can’t imagine them not reopening it.

[JGPR2]

Posted: 3/14/21 at 9:43pm

"I mean, of course TBOM is racist on some level, in the same way that The Producers is homophobic. But these characters are meant to be over the top stereotypes, and much of the humor comes from how offensive it is. It’s shock humor."

Totally agree with your point about both shows. The other thing is that these shows are very well known and if you find them offensive, don't buy a ticket. 

[sinister teashop]

Posted: 3/14/21 at 10:44pm

ACL2006 said: "I mean, when the show was at the top and raking in the $$$, why was nothing said then? Afraid to get fired?"

 

It opened in 2011, that's ten years ago and is now essentially another era. Humor and the way it's received has a very short shelf life. 

Updated On: 3/14/21 at 10:44 PM

[NOWaWarning]

Posted: 3/14/21 at 11:37pm

JGPR2 said: "The other thing is that these shows are very well known and if you find them offensive, don't buy a ticket."

Well sure, but that’s precisely why the creative team is considering making changes. They don’t want people to stop buying tickets. 

 

[LizzieCurry]

Posted: 3/15/21 at 1:22am

2011 was basically the last year this show could've opened (arguably, 2012, maybe). It's fine to adjust to sensibilities, and they have the time now to do it. The fact that there are at least two Black OBC members involved in this — including one who's been with the show off and on for the entire run and has thus been able to see closely the evolution of the humor both how it's performed and how it's received — is more than notable.

[OlBlueEyes]

Posted: 3/15/21 at 3:21am

"Whatever happens, I hope they can fix the problems and continue this brave and important show that only continues to be more relevant than ever as it feels like over the last 10 years the public discourse of religion seems to try and protect rather than criticise religion (even if private attitudes show that as always in progressive societies we are becoming less religious)."

I believe that it has more to do with the level of peace and prosperity that a country is seeing, that keeps people out of the churches.

Comes the pandemic or the war or the terrors that nature sometimes brings, and when the people are convinced the natural will be of no use to them, they take a shot at the supernatural. Gives them some hope, at least.

[MollyJeanneMusic]

Posted: 3/15/21 at 8:59am

This is a huge stretch for changing the show cause it completely changes the plot, but I'd like to see a Book of Mormon alternate-universe version of the show where instead of going to Uganda, Price and Cunningham are sent to Orlando - but it's the "Orlando Project" part of Orlando outside of all the theme parks that Price has idolized since he was little.  He can be disillusioned by that, and how even his greatest dream is tainted because of the suffering that he now knows lies immediately outside its borders, instead of by the stereotypical war generals and living in terror that isn't even a genuine reflection of Uganda in the 21st century.  One of the issues that people have with the show is that you could set the "Uganda" parts in any part of the world and play up those stereotypes and the show wouldn't change at all - so instead of choosing a location based on its perceived "badness," choose one that drives the characters and the more enticing storyline in the show, which is Price's disillusionment with religion and fear of his own mortality.  Comedy can be raunchy, it can be personal, but falling into racial and cultural stereotypes without specifically disavowing them is not only a terrible thing to do, it's just lazy writing.

[LizzieCurry]

Posted: 3/15/21 at 10:12am

I also meant to say this last night, but I don't think the reasoning behind the upcoming BoM workshop (unless it happened already?) is TOO far off from when Dave Chappelle talked about being uncomfortable with how and why certain people were laughing at his humor:

https://www.thefader.com/2016/07/29/skit-that-killed-chappelles-show

https://www.looper.com/266269/the-real-reason-dave-chappelle-quit-his-sketch-show/ Updated On: 3/15/21 at 10:12 AM

[Kad]

Posted: 3/15/21 at 11:16am

Parker and Stone have clearly grown a lot over the years in terms of their views and how they handle comedy and who it targets, and it seems like they are receptive to this. I would assume they and everyone else want the show to run and not feel stuck in a decade-old time warp in terms of sensibilities, and I think that’s good. Comedy can have trouble aging well.

Yes, the Ugandans in the show provide a very poignant and well-conceived moral about belief. But they’re also depicted as backwards people who try to text using a typewriter, so there’s some dissonance there that can be smoothed.

[LizzieCurry]

Posted: 3/15/21 at 2:17pm

Yep! I LIKE the show (that's not a secret). I like that it does aim daggers at the white-savior complex. But you hit the nail on the head with your second paragraph as well.

[Kad]

Posted: 3/15/21 at 4:02pm

LizzieCurry said: "Yep! I LIKE the show (that's not a secret). I like that it does aim daggers at the white-savior complex. But you hit the nail on the head with your second paragraph as well."

I like the show a lot too! I will always cherish my memory of seeing the show during its first week of previews, and went on to see the original cast many times from standing room. And, honestly, I probably was part of the crowd defending the show against this sort of criticism back in 2011. I still think it's a very well-intentioned show with a lot to recommend in it. But my views have changed. And I think it's great that the views of those involved have, too.