BEST Musicals that DIDN'T win BEST MUSICAL- Page 5

[LostLeander]

Posted: 11/8/05 at 12:01am

Caroline, or Change.
Light in the Piazza.
Ragtime.
Into the Woods.
SUNDAY IN THE PARK WITH GEORGE.

Sunday's loss really gets to me. What a gorgeous piece of theatre. I really do think it's a perfect piece of theatre.

The subject matter being the "state of the art", and how artists deal with being artists, and creating art, I think is extremely relevant, and will always be.
La Cage was new and exciting because of its unabashed use of a homosexual relationship.

Tony voters might have been more sympathetic to this one because of the new and scary AIDS epidemic which was taking many lives, a horrible thing, yes, but I think it did have an affect on the voters that year.

And it's a great show, yes, but Sunday is, I think is just on such a different level, a better level, dare I say.
And I think part of the reason why the revival didn't do so well was because it lost some of its relevance, and shock value.

So, while a revival of Sunday would not exactly be a hit, it would still be relevant, and poignant, and beautiful as always.

[WiCkEDrOcKS]

Posted: 11/8/05 at 12:03am

2004 didn't really have many new musicals open (compared to the following year) but, Caroline or Change was an epic production. If it was up to me, the Tonys wouldve gone a little something like this:
MUSICAL: Wicked
BOOK: Avenue Q or Wicked
SCORE: Caroline
ACTRESS: Idina or Tonya
ACTOR: Hugh
DIRECTOR: Woolf (CoC)

Caroline wouldve walked away with maybe 3 or 4 Tonys if up to me...it was a great, great, great show.

[amperage]

Posted: 11/8/05 at 7:48am

Falsettos

[broadway86]

Posted: 11/8/05 at 11:18am

This thread was pretty much invented for Ragtime.

Also...

The Wild Party
Urinetown

and... oh, yeah! Ragtime. I'm sure there's more, but I can't think of them.

[best12bars]

Posted: 11/8/05 at 11:22am

Sunday lost to La Cage for several reasons IMO.

Yes, the AIDS epidemic played into it. La Cage had a controversial and VERY topical subject matter (for commercial theatre) presented in a non-threatening traditional manner. "Old School" show tunes, echoing an era from 20 years before it. There was a big backlash against homosexuals in the early to mid-'80s: "the evil of the earth that they brought upon themselves, etc." La Cage invited mass audiences to see gays as human beings again, in a very accessible and entertaining way.

Sunday in the Park was about the creation of art, the sacrifices made to create it, and its legacy. That's not something that everyone across the country can relate to... even though the subject matter has never been presented in such an inspiring and thoughtful way before. Then you have a score that (intentionally) is dissonant and disjointed at times. So you're presenting a subject matter with limited appeal and identification, and you're presenting it with a non-traditional, avant-garde musical approach.

It's easy to see why La Cage won... although Sunday remains one of the best musicals ever written.

[Smaxie]

Posted: 11/8/05 at 11:59am

Sunday also lost because it got a set of incredibly clueless and stupid reviews, with the notable exception of Frank Rich in the New York Times. Rich continued to plug away, supporting the show, and considering how much he was hated by the theatre industry, a vote for La Cage was an anti-New York Times vote. (Sort of a similar scenario played out two years earlier with Nine and Dreamgirls, with Rich an ardent booster of Dreamgirls, despite that show, like Sunday, receiving mostly negative reviews). La Cage, despite its subject matter, was a fluffy, undemanding evening, exactly the kind of show that the Tony voters love to award Best Musical, instead of the show that is truly pushing and exploring the musical theatre form.

Updated On: 11/8/05 at 11:59 AM

[Unmasked05]

Posted: 11/8/05 at 12:51pm

I love THE LION KING and all but RAGTIME should have sweeped the TONYS period..maybe not for choreography but it should have taken everything else home.

In 2003..yeah WICKED should have one...but hey Q is a good show to and there both still open so it doesn't matter.

DREAMGIRLS should have won back in 1981.

now that I think about it SIDE SHOW...could have gotten BEST MUSICAL.

ooohh and BEAUTY AND THE BEAST so should have been nominated..for BEST MUSICAL the year they opened..they really did deserve it.

[paradox_error]

Posted: 11/8/05 at 1:41pm

Beauty and The Beast WAS nominated.

PASSION was just MUCH better...

[munkustrap178]

Posted: 11/8/05 at 1:46pm

I'm still surprised that people think WICKED was better than Q or COC. It baffles me.

[Becky]

Posted: 11/8/05 at 3:27pm

I'm still surprised that people think WICKED was better than Q or COC. It baffles me.

It baffles me that people think Q deserved it over Wicked (I'm not just saying that to play devil's advocate!) I certainly don't want to start that debate again so I'll leave it at that.....

I do think Urinetown and Full Monty deserved the award over their counterparts.

[Unmasked05]

Posted: 11/8/05 at 3:31pm

Well...BEAUTY AND THE BEAST still should have won over PASSION...but the past is the past.

[WiCkEDrOcKS]

Posted: 11/8/05 at 3:53pm

I seriously don't know what it will take for you guys to accept that people love Wicked and thought it deserved the Tony. It didnt win. Ok? Avenue Q won as we're reminded by the obnoxious slogan they have obtained ("Did we mention we won the Tony?"). Wicked may seem like it would have lied cheated and stole to win but it didnt. And it wouldnt have. The fact that YOU think Q or CoC deserved the Tony is just as valid as our opinions about Wicked. Get over the fact that people think Wicked deserved the Tony.

[Tom1071]

Posted: 11/8/05 at 4:05pm

RAGTIME

[Smaxie]

Posted: 11/8/05 at 4:13pm

Losing the Tony for Best Musical hasn't seemed to hurt Beauty and the Beast at all.

[jv92]

Posted: 11/8/05 at 4:18pm

Keeping up with WickedRock's post about OUR choice for a Tony winner, if I were to pick awards for the biggest debacles in Tony history (1957, 1959, 1976, 1998, 2002, 2004, 2005) I'd pick theses.

1957
Musical: WEST SIDE STORY
Book: ARTHUR LAURENTS
Score: BERNSTEINSONDHEIM & WILSON (who can choose?)
Everything else sticks.

1959
Musical: GYPSY
Book: ARTHUR LAURENTS
Score: STYNESONDHEIM
Actress: MERMAN
Direction: JEROME ROBBINS

1975
Musical: CHICAGO
Book: CHORUS LINE
Score: KANDEREBB
Actress: VERDON
Actor: ORBACH
FEATURED Actress: DONNA MCKECHNIE (Yes, she wasn't billed above the title, nor did she have as big as a part as the two leading players of Avenue Q for example)
Director: FOSSE
Choregrapher: BENNET (It WAS about dance, and CHICAGO had constant movement)

1998
Stick with everything but--
Musical: RAGTIME
Actress: MARIN MAZZIE
Featured: PETER FRIEDMAN (he should have been in this category)
Actor: BRIAN STOKES MITCHELL

2002
Stick with it all but--
Featured Actress: SPENCER KAYDEN
Musical: URINETOWN
Costumes: INTO THE WOODS

2004
Musical: WICKED
Score: SCHWARTZ
Book: I'd stick with Jeff Whitty, really, the book of Wicked is a mess.

2005
Musical: PIAZZA, loved DRS, but this show was daring, something we NEVER, EVER see!
Score: TIE!!! Come on! If there ever was to be well deserved tie this would be it. Both Mr. Guettel and Mr. Yazbek did great jobs.
Costumes: LA CAGE AUX FOLLES

[iheartcheyenne123]

Posted: 11/8/05 at 4:34pm

Wicked
Piazza
West Side Story
Chicago

[bschneid76]

Posted: 11/8/05 at 9:39pm

Best Musicals

The Light in the Piazza
Follies
Chicago
The Best Little Whorehouse in Texas
Me and my Girl
Grand Hotel
Falsettos
The Life
Ragtime
The Full Monty


The hardest year to choose would have to have been 1979 as all 4 nominated shows have excellent qualities. I wish all 4 could have recieved the award: Sweeney Todd, Ballroom, They're Playing Our Song and The Best Little Whorehouse in Texas.

[chinaboy]

Posted: 11/8/05 at 10:48pm

Both Avenue Q and Wicked both have interesting points behind them, but the problem is that a bunch of people can't see past the green-painted teenyboppers (or its...faulty book) to see that Wicked has a deeper meaning.

Q was interesting, as it portrayed people's problems, secrets, and embarassments as a joke. It stepped outside of life (using puppets) to point and laugh at ourselves. It's a satire of ourselves. It is essentially this quote put into musical form:
"There is not a shred of evidence supporting the idea that life should be taken seriously."

Wicked, despite some of its terrible lines, has a really good meaning; what is shown to us is never the whole story. We can't exactly say what is good or evil because we don't know what it's like from the other side. The Wizard of Oz portrayed the Wicked Witch of the West as an evil entity, only there to cackle and torment the poor wizard-goers, but when the Wizard's identity is revealled at the end, it opens a door to a whole new story about what it may be life on the other side of the fence.

That said, I'd go with Q, as I like laughing at myself more than I like crying for someone else.
Updated On: 11/8/05 at 10:48 PM

[IveGottaBeME]

Posted: 11/8/05 at 11:59pm

Caroline, or Change

[Dre2387]

Posted: 11/9/05 at 12:05am

into the woods
wicked
DIRTY ROTTEN SCOUNDRELS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Vespertine1228]

Posted: 11/9/05 at 12:33am

Besides the obvious recent ones like "Ragtime" over "The Lion King" in 1998 or "The Light in the Piazza" over "Spamalot" in 2005, let me be controversial and say that "She Loves Me" is a better show than "Hello, Dolly!" (1964). Also, "Pippin" is most definitely a better show than "A Little Music" (1973). Luckily for Stephen Sondheim, Bob Fosse decided to run Stephen Schwartz's brilliant show into the ground that year. "Pippin" is about so much more than the cheesy 70s sex fantasy most people think of it as.

[C is for Company]

Posted: 11/9/05 at 12:38am

A little night music is such a classic though and its Jake Gyllenhaal approved lol for anyone who saw his interview. Idk, although Night music isnt exactly always the topic of discussion and I do hear more talking about Pippin, it still holds as a brilliantly written show

[aegeusrocks]

Posted: 11/9/05 at 1:07am

IMHO, the list:
West Side Story (So what if it's revolutionary for the time? It's a good thing!)
Follies (Two Gentleman of Verona - seemed good at the time, aged poorly)
Sunday in the Park with George (A travesty)
Into the Woods (POTO....I'm just not gonna say anything here)
Once on this Island/Secret Garden (Hard to decide between the two, but Will Rogers Follies....::sighs::)
Parade (Fosse?! What?! This was a revue disguised as a musical)
Ragtime (The Lion King, while I love it, is a spectacle, while Ragtime is beauty in musical form)
The Wild Party (Contact is not a musical, who were they kidding?)
The Full Monty (Producers = fluff w/star power)
Urinetown (Millie = fluff)
Amour (it's good on paper) (Not Hairspray - it was good and all, but honestly nothing really special)
Caroline, or Change (Don't ignore it in the question of Wicked vs. Q)
The Light in the Piazza (This needs no comment)
Updated On: 11/9/05 at 01:07 AM

[Composer9]

Posted: 11/9/05 at 2:33am

WEST SIDE STORY (sorry for the caps, but I'm really serious!)
Sunday in the Park with George
Gypsy
Ragtime
The Light in the Piazza!

[ALWrules]

Posted: 11/9/05 at 3:10am

Gypsy would definately have to compete for this award.

To all of you who whine about "Caroline or Change" I don't know whats wrong with you all. Worst, most boring musical ever