Posted: 5/2/22 at 12:37am
Posted: 5/2/22 at 2:37am
MemorableUserName said: "RippedMan said: "It's a brutal industry. I had friends who booked major national tours that got scrapped (Bat Out of Hell) or got pulled and went non-union (Tootsie).
I know it seems cruel from the outside, but the industry is about the bottom line. ALW is going to bleed money just to give people their dreams, etc."
How exactly does announcing the closing on social media instead of telling the hired actors directly help ALW's bottom line?"
We have Unions for a reason. The union there is not as strong. I don't know the ins and outs. Sure, maybe, he could have done it better, but for what? The actors are there to serve him. He wrote it. He produced it. It's a tough terrible industry.
Posted: 5/2/22 at 5:25am
Maybe this stuff is more commonplace in America, maybe the industry in America is more brutal. This kind of thing is absolutely not the norm here in the UK - speaking as someone who’s worked in British theatre for 20 years. The number of (British) industry leaders expressing shock and contempt over this shows it really is not the norm or acceptable.
Posted: 5/2/22 at 10:10am
Not sure why anyone is surprised. The man is an egomaniac. He fired Patti LuPone, she found out from her publicist after they read it in the New York Times. He's notoriously cruel to women, specifically. Faye Dunaway, Patti, Carrie. It doesn't take a genius to see how toxic this man's presence in the industry is.
The toxicity doesn't end there. Lets also not forget his lovely curtain speech not too long ago that went along the lines of "What is an anagram for Omicron and Delta? Media Control." Giving himself all the credit for bringing the West End back when really he just wanted to start making money again and COVID be damned.
....so....
Posted: 5/2/22 at 10:54am
lilpunkin said: "Maybe this stuff is more commonplace in America, maybe the industry in America is more brutal. This kind of thing is absolutely not the norm here in the UK - speaking as someone who’s worked in British theatre for 20 years. The number of (British) industry leaders expressing shock and contempt over this shows it really is not the norm or acceptable."
Sorry but this is about the very British ALW, and whether it likes it or not, he's a Brit.
The discussion of "brutality" is misleading. It is always brutal when a show (a factory, a store, a restaurant, etc) closes and people are left without a job. That's true on any continent. But that's not the source of the outrage. The outrage arises from the classless, disrespectful way in which this ogre went about informing people of the brutal news. (And his "way" is pathological.) Although British Equity is indeed the weaker union, no union contract requires class.
Posted: 5/2/22 at 11:07am
HogansHero said: “The outrage arises from the classless, disrespectful way in which this ogre went about informing people of the brutal news. (And his "way" is pathological.) Although British Equity is indeed the weaker union, no union contract requires class."
That’s my point - the American posters saying “what’s the big deal this is normal only people who don’t work in theatre think it’s not okay” (and giving examples from American shows) are incorrect - the way ALW has gone about this is absolutely not the norm in the industry and country he is working in, and is needlessly cruel. That’s why the theatre industry is up in arms about it, and why industry leaders are speaking against ALW.
Posted: 5/2/22 at 11:16am
Finding out your show is closing via Twitter gives me the same vibes of that tech company that laid off 900 people over zoom then locked their computers. Business is business but still seems kinda harsh.
Since a transfer is basically confirmed, do we think CHF will come with it? Also someone mentioned a big surprise in the show that would need to be removed/redone - can someone explain what it is in a spoiler?
Posted: 5/2/22 at 11:33am
YvanEhtNioj said: "Since a transfer is basically confirmed, do we think CHF will come with it?"
Not a chance. She's made her displeasure with ALW plain since he laid into the cast after Johnny Olesinski reviewed the show for the NY Post and essentially panned it. ALW blamed the cast and basically accused them of phoning it in and giving him the bad review. Like....sure the CAST is what's to blame for pretty lackluster reviews and a single Olivier nomination...sure Andy...sure.
Posted: 5/2/22 at 11:35am
YvanEhtNioj said: "Finding out your show is closing via Twitter gives me the same vibes of that tech company that laid off 900 people over zoom then locked their computers. Business is business but still seems kinda harsh.
Since a transfer is basically confirmed, do we think CHF will come with it? Also someone mentioned a big surprise in the show that would need to be removed/redone - can someone explain what it is in a spoiler?"
By this stage I don't think anybody would consider it a spoiler but at the beginning of Act 2 the stage and the front section of the stalls revolve so that that the ball scene is basically performed in the round. Not many many theatres are capable of accommodating this.
Posted: 5/2/22 at 11:38am
I’m gonna guess Carrie Hope Fletcher doesn’t come over. She has a fanbase, but she’s not a big star and it doesn’t sound like she was giving the kind of performance that they’re really gonna want to go through the effort to transfer when they could easily find someone suitable to do the role here.
Posted: 5/2/22 at 11:56am
OhHiii said: "YvanEhtNioj said: "Since a transfer is basically confirmed, do we think CHF will come with it?"
Not a chance. She's made her displeasure with ALW plain since he laid into the cast after Johnny Olesinski reviewed the show for the NY Post and essentially panned it. ALW blamed the cast and basically accused them of phoning it in and giving him the bad review. Like....sure the CAST is what's to blame for pretty lackluster reviews and a single Olivier nomination...sure Andy...sure.
"
I had no idea about this. **Googles review**
Posted: 5/2/22 at 12:21pm
Dolly80 said: "It’s absolutely disgusting. There should be more accountability when this happens , well- it’s kind of shocking that those in charge think this kind of behaviour is even acceptable."
With all due respect, this 'kind of behavior' has been accepted in every industry - every industry - across America (not certain about other countries) for decades. It's 100% acceptable.
Posted: 5/2/22 at 12:32pm
lilpunkin said: "That’s my point - the American posters saying “what’s the big deal this is normal only people who don’t work in theatre think it’s not okay” (and giving examples from American shows) are incorrect - the way ALW has gone about this is absolutely not the norm in the industry and country he is working in, and is needlessly cruel. That’s why the theatre industry is up in arms about it, and why industry leaders are speaking against ALW."
You seem to be attempting a (non-existent) distinction between the UK and the US based on your misunderstanding of the import of a couple of posts that are focused on the general brutality of closings in commercial theatre (or any business). That misapprehends what the outrage is about because the current outrage you describe (which exists in both countries) is about the disrespectful way that ALW went about the communication, not the fact that he announced a closing. As it happens, if you were to ask anyone who pays attention to the theatre in either country what comes to mind when they hear the term "disrespectful producer" in relation to actors, the first person who comes to mind is undoubtedly the Fool of Sydmonton Court.
Posted: 5/2/22 at 12:49pm
It lacks tact and any sort of human understanding. The least you can do is tell people to their face that their jobs will no longer exist. And not that I expect HIM to do that personally.
Posted: 5/2/22 at 1:01pm
I don’t think anyone thinks that announcing a show closure is inherently wrong or brutal - pretty sure everyone is well aware that the objections and outrage are solely over the way it was done (people finding out from social media, bank holiday announcement, casting actors and having them give up other work and start working for jobs that RUG/ALW knew likely wouldn’t exist, cancelling some people’s appointments but not others, plus the general history of how badly ALW has treated this particular show, especially the horrendous speaker phone incident).
I haven’t seen anyone indicate they think the outrage is over the fact a show is closing, because obviously shows close and that’s just a fact of the industry.
But the specific ways this particular closure was handled, no that’s not the norm or acceptable here and that’s why it’s drawing such widespread condemnation from industry figures, which a regular show closure announcement wouldn’t do.
UK Equity have announced they’re pursuing a compensation claim.
Posted: 5/2/22 at 1:02pm
"RippedMan said: "It's a brutal industry. I had friends who booked major national tours that got scrapped (Bat Out of Hell) or got pulled and went non-union (Tootsie).
I know it seems cruel from the outside, but the industry is about the bottom line. ALW is going to bleed money just to give people their dreams, etc."
MemorableUserName said: "How exactly does announcing the closing on social media instead of telling the hired actors directly help ALW's bottom line?"
RippedMan said: "We have Unions for a reason. The union there is not as strong. I don't know the ins and outs. Sure, maybe, he could have done it better, but for what? The actors are there to serve him. He wrote it. He produced it. It's a tough terrible industry."
Treating people decently and/or not being an a**hole are ends in themselves. Doing so wouldn't have cost him anything. Nothing about the notification process was advantageous from a business perspective. Closing the show was business; the way it was handled was personal.
It's a tough, terrible world. We all have a choice in how we treat people. And the idea that employees are only there to serve their employers and therefore don't deserve to be treated with courtesy or respect is a large part of what's wrong with the world today.
Updated On: 5/2/22 at 01:02 PM
Posted: 5/2/22 at 1:21pm
Don't worry, lilpunkin. Anyone who was actually reading and following the thread knew you were referring to the way the closing was handled, not the closing itself, especially since your comment directly followed the "Sure, maybe, he could have done it better, but for what? The actors are there to serve him." post. Everything you've said has been well-stated.
Posted: 5/2/22 at 2:02pm
MemorableUserName said: ""RippedMan said: "It's a brutal industry. I had friends who booked major national tours that got scrapped (Bat Out of Hell) or got pulled and went non-union (Tootsie).
I know it seems cruel from the outside, but the industry is about the bottom line. ALW is going to bleed money just to give people their dreams, etc."
MemorableUserName said: "How exactly does announcing the closing on social media instead of telling the hired actors directly help ALW's bottom line?"
RippedMan said: "We have Unions for a reason. The union there is not as strong. I don't know the ins and outs. Sure, maybe, he could have done it better, but for what? The actors are there to serve him. He wrote it. He produced it. It's a tough terrible industry."
Treating people decently and/or not being an a**hole are ends in themselves. Doing so wouldn't have cost him anything. Nothing about the notification process was advantageous from a business perspective. Closing the show was business; the way it was handled was personal.
It's a tough, terrible world. We all have a choice in how we treat people. And the idea that employees are only there to serve their employers and therefore don't deserve to be treated with courtesy or respect is a large part of what's wrong with the world today."
Totally. I guess my point was more so it's like dealing with an airline. You can complain all you want, but the powers that be are just bigger than you so it's like what can you do? He did it in a shady way, but what does it do to complain at this point? He's not going to say sorry and keep the show running.
Posted: 5/2/22 at 2:24pm
RippedMan said:
Totally. I guess my point was more so it's like dealing with an airline. You can complain all you want, but the powers that be are just bigger than you so it's like what can you do? He did it in a shady way, but what does it do to complain at this point? He's not going to say sorry and keep the show running."
At this point, it won't help anything. He won't reverse what he has done. But it does influence people (not just actors) willing to work for him.
In general it becomes more and more important how you treat your employees as boss. It's a factor people take into account. That standards in the theater/movie world are a bit different might help a little to keep people coming back to work for ALW, but not all.
Posted: 5/2/22 at 2:44pm
That's my point though. Actors are desperate for work. 99.9% of those actors would work for ALW again in a heartbeat cause work is work. Producers would work for him again hoping for another Phantom. It sucks and it's ****ty, but .... yeah nothing is gonna change.
Posted: 5/2/22 at 3:17pm
Carrie Hope Fletcher wasn't in the show and found out via social media according to her socials. The UK actors Equity put out this tweet Tweet from Equity vowing that they will get compensation for their members.
I assume ALW will get a slap on the wrist, and will sign a cheque to cover the damage, and it will all go away.
Posted: 5/2/22 at 3:53pm
I kind of find all the back and forth over this pretty fascinating - particularly with the bulk of the anger (online) being directed at ALW... Interestingly, having watched a bulk of Summer Strallen's Instagram video (who was just cast in Cinderella) and her cousin Bebe who worked front of house - they were both quick to defend ALW.
I get it, people want a villain and he's a convenient one. I know he's still highly involved in the Really Useful Group (whether he's the majority owner or what anymore, I don't remember, that's changed multiple times over the years) so for most people he's the face of that company. But everyone's assigning all the blame on him because 1 - they never liked ALW 2 - he said something else they disagreed with (i.e. because he had a different opinion about COVID and protocols, some people hate him) 3 - he has a lot of money so he's an easy target
To me 1 - this was a herculean effort to mount a world premiere of a new musical in this pandemic environment that the team should get major props for. It would've been far "safer" to simply remount a revival like Joseph.
2 - Cinderella, musically I liked the score. Not my favorite, but I've gone back to it a bunch of times and have some of those melodies in my ear as I type ("I Know you"/Cinderella waltz) - having not seen the production, I'm not in a position to say how it worked on stage and have read a lot of debates about which (some) made fair points about. I'm sure it needed work (as did my favorite of ALW's - Sunset Blvd between London and LA opening)
3 - this seems the most unprofessional cast and background team ever. The whining online from cast members undermining one another and the work as a whole has been going on for some time... maybe as early as previews when they had to delay the opening. The number of cast members who were calling out sick and then showing up on social media attending other people's shows and feeling quite entitled to doing so (particularly CHF who doesn't seem to handle any criticism well... when she had a bad performance on "West End Live" she was full of excuses and eventually they pulled the video down)
4 - The way this closure happened, we're all speculating here, but one seemingly plausible theory is that the rumor started to circulate on Saturday, it's a "holiday" today in UK so a lot of people were away for a long weekend, somehow the press got a hold of it and were going to run with it, and so we have the latest "scandal."
It's sad for creatives, cast, crew, front of house whenever any production closes. But this vilification of ALW seems way over the top, even for BWW message board
Posted: 5/2/22 at 3:56pm
lilpunkin said: "I don’t think anyone thinks that announcing a show closure is inherently wrong or brutal - pretty sure everyone is well aware that the objections and outrage are solely over the way it was done (people finding out from social media, bank holiday announcement, casting actors and having them give up other work and start working for jobs that RUG/ALW knew likely wouldn’t exist, cancelling some people’s appointments but not others, plus the general history of how badly ALW has treated this particular show, especially the horrendous speaker phone incident).
I haven’t seen anyone indicate they think the outrage is over the fact a show is closing, because obviously shows close and that’s just a fact of the industry.
But the specific ways this particular closure was handled, no that’s not the norm or acceptable here and that’s why it’s drawing such widespread condemnation from industry figures, which a regular show closure announcement wouldn’t do.
UK Equity have announced they’re pursuing a compensation claim."
The post introducing the "brutal" language was # 247:
"It's a brutal industry. I had friends who booked major national tours that got scrapped (Bat Out of Hell) or got pulled and went non-union (Tootsie).
I know it seems cruel from the outside, but the industry is about the bottom line. ALW is [not] going to bleed money just to give people their dreams, etc. "
Clearly, that post was about the inherently brutality in the closing of a show, not the way it was handled.
In your first post (#252), you responded by saying "Maybe this stuff is more commonplace in America, maybe the industry in America is more brutal. This kind of thing is absolutely not the norm here in the UK - speaking as someone who’s worked in British theatre for 20 years."
Manifestly you were misappropriating the word "brutal" to insinuate that, in America (in contrast to the UK), the brutality of what ALW did was commonplace in the US. That's why I responded. I have no quarrel with agreeing that ALW is insensitive, brutal, etc. Ironically, far from being an American trait, as I noted, ALW, a Brit, is the poster child of disrespectfulness to actors.
Do you still think I am missing a point you were trying to make?
Posted: 5/2/22 at 3:57pm
chernjam said: "I kind of find all the back and forth over this pretty fascinating - particularly with the bulk of the anger (online) being directed at ALW... Interestingly, having watched a bulk of Summer Strallen's Instagram video (who was just cast in Cinderella) and her cousin Bebe who worked front of house - they were both quick to defend ALW.
I get it, people want a villain and he's a convenient one. I know he's still highly involved in the Really Useful Group (whether he's the majority owner or what anymore, I don't remember, that's changed multiple times over the years) so for most people he's the face of that company. But everyone's assigning all the blame on him because 1 - they never liked ALW 2 - he said something else they disagreed with (i.e. because he had a different opinion about COVID and protocols, some people hate him) 3 - he has a lot of money so he's an easy target
To me 1 - this was a herculean effort to mount a world premiere of a new musical in this pandemic environment that the team should get major props for. It would've been far "safer" to simply remount a revival like Joseph.
2 - Cinderella, musically I liked the score. Not my favorite, but I've gone back to it a bunch of times and have some of those melodies in my ear as I type ("I Know you"/Cinderella waltz) - having not seen the production, I'm not in a position to say how it worked on stage and have read a lot of debates about which (some) made fair points about. I'm sure it needed work (as did my favorite of ALW's - Sunset Blvd between London and LA opening)
3 - this seems the most unprofessional cast and background team ever. The whining online from cast members undermining one another and the work as a whole has been going on for some time... maybe as early as previews when they had to delay the opening. The number of cast members who were calling out sick and then showing up on social media attending other people's shows and feeling quite entitled to doing so (particularly CHF who doesn't seem to handleanycriticism well... when she had a bad performance on "West End Live" she was full of excuses and eventually they pulled the video down)
4 - The way this closure happened, we're all speculating here, but one seemingly plausible theory is that the rumor started to circulate on Saturday, it's a "holiday" today in UK so a lot of people were away for a long weekend, somehow the press got a hold of it and were going to run with it, and so we have the latest "scandal."
It's sad for creatives, cast, crew, front of house whenever any production closes. But this vilification of ALW seems way over the top, even for BWW message board"
Tell us, how many years have you worked for Andrew? C'mon, tell us. 
Posted: 5/2/22 at 5:09pm
Does anyone know the full cast that was supposed to begin next month? Just curious, but I can't find anything online except for mentions of Summer Strallen as the Queen and John Whaite as Prince Charming.
Edit: Actually just found this on Instagram if anyone else is curious: https://www.instagram.com/p/CdELI_MI1-N/
Chrissie Bhima as Cinderella
Natasha May Thomas as Adele
Summer Strallen as The Queen
Micha Richardson as The Godmother
John Whaite as Prince Charming
And Daisy Twells and Ensemble and Cover Adele and Marie
Updated On: 5/2/22 at 05:09 PM
