Amar Ramasar (Jigger in CAROUSEL) suspended from NYCB over "inappropriate communications"- Page 6

[bwayrose7]

Posted: 9/16/18 at 4:52pm

The "damage to their reputation" in that form letter really gets me. So, these fans are claiming that Ramasar's reputation has been appropriately "damaged," but that making casting decisions based on that reputation is not appropriate? The logic baffles me, as does the idea that "reputation" is an actual punishment. Clearly his reputation hasn't suffered that much, if so many people are willing to ignore the evidence in the legal filings. It's fascinating how they don't seem to care one whit about the reputation and career of the young women whose privacy and trust was violated by a bunch of bros, but they jump to defend the men. These actions were not "tangential" for the women whose pictures were shared.

I went back to reread the original materials and according to the quoted texts, Ramasar sent at least one explicit file: From the NYPost article:

"The lewd photo and video exchange became so widespread that while swapping snaps with Ramasar in May, Finlay allegedly replied: “Already seen that one, I know you have more.”"

[Mediamaven2]

Posted: 9/16/18 at 5:45pm

I can't believe the deference given to authority -- someone posts above  "I mean if he was fired, they had evidence to justify firing him".

Not necessarily!

So hope you aren't on my jury if and when I need one!!!

I think there is a rush to judgment. The litigation hasn't played out. It is merely a filed lawsuit of allegations. I am not saying it's not true - clearly it seems very much to be so -  I am just saying it is one side and frankly anyone can file anything alleging anything. I say it to make the point that one side has been heard, and only in a preliminary way.

Look, maybe there is much more come that is damning to NYCB, who knows! Maybe her side will learn this during the fact finding process called discovery which happens in all litigation prior to trial. Maybe, Amar and Z are caught up in the wrong time and place like Sen Al Franken was. Maybe in this climate their heads had to role, maybe it was deserved, maybe not. Time will tell as more truth hopefully drips out. But first and foremost, so long as the donor on the email chain who was egging this along more than A and Z remains anonymous I will believe there are lies/cover up / not the true whole story.

[bwayrose7]

Posted: 9/16/18 at 6:09pm

Mediamaven2 said: "I can't believe the deference given to authority -- someone posts above "I mean if he was fired, they had evidence to justify firing him".

Not necessarily!

So hope you aren't on my jury if and when I need one!!!

I think there is a rush to judgment. The litigation hasn't played out. It is merely a filed lawsuit of allegations. I am not saying it's not true - clearly it seems very much to be so -I am just saying it is one side and frankly anyone can file anything alleging anything. I say it to make the point that one side has been heard, and only in a preliminary way.

Look, maybe there is much more come that is damning to NYCB, who knows! Maybe her side will learn this during the fact finding process called discovery which happens in all litigation prior to trial. Maybe, Amar and Z are caught up in the wrong time and place like Sen Al Franken was. Maybe in this climate their heads had to role, maybe it was deserved, maybe not. Time will tell as more truth hopefully drips out. But first and foremost, so long as the donor on the email chain who was egging this along more than A and Z remains anonymous I will believe there are lies/cover up / not the true whole story."

Mediamaven, I understand that you're a fan of Ramasar's and that it's hard to believe allegations against someone you admire and respect. I've been there. But I think you're incorrect in some of your statements above.

1) This is not about the trial. Ramasar and Catazaro were removed for their behavior, not for criminal conduct. Breach of contract / fireable offenses are usually not criminal conduct, contrary to what popular culture seems to think.

2) Ramasar is NOT an innocent bystander. The first reports indicated that he sent at least one message that prompted Finlay to reply "already got that one, I know you have more. Another article includes the detail from the court filing that Ramasar sent at least one image of a female dancer's breasts to the crude group chat (article here: https://nypost.com/2018/09/15/new-york-city-ballet-dancers-fired-over-sex-misconduct-accusations/). I don't know what you think attorneys do, but details like this are not specified without concrete evidence to back them up. It's not hearsay - it's literal text messages that are being presented as evidence in a court filing and presumably will be seen by the court throughout the lawsuit. Unless you're arguing that they were faked, there is no context that makes these okay.

3) Why isn't the donor named? Well, he's rich and powerful enough to be a major donor; my guess is that he's got the influence to keep his name out of it, at least for now. I agree that he seems particularly gross judging by the details that have been leaked. BUT: if any of the members of this little boys' club really was such a great person and such an innocent party who didn't want the consequences of being part of this, why didn't they leave the chat? It's not hard to do.

4) As a matter of fact, yes, if someone was fired, in most cases the company does have justification. In a high-profile case like this, one that also involves a union, you'd better believe that they wouldn't fire someone if they didn't have every single loophole closed. 

[Wick3]

Posted: 9/16/18 at 7:23pm

I’m not a fan of Ramasar but I do agree that we need to hear more information about this case before making our own judgments.
Some thoughts:
1) NYCB already suspended Ramasar and Catazaro a few weeks ago without pay. Did they learn or obtain more information to justify the firing this past week?
2) The union stated they reviewed everything sent to them from NYCB yet they are still defending both Ramasar and Catazaro’s employment rights. Why would they do that? Do they think NYCB doesn’t have sufficient evidence to fire both men?
3) in the NYT article the donor was a member of the young patrons circle and donated a total of $12k from 2000-2016 (so probably $2000 per year.) Personally I wouldn’t consider that amount as major but to each his own.

Updated On: 9/16/18 at 07:23 PM

[bk]

Posted: 9/16/18 at 8:09pm

bwayrose7 said: "The "damage to their reputation" in that form letter really gets me. So, these fans are claiming that Ramasar's reputation has been appropriately "damaged," but that making casting decisions based on that reputation is not appropriate? The logic baffles me, as does the idea that "reputation" is an actual punishment. Clearly his reputation hasn't suffered that much, if so many people are willing to ignore the evidence in the legal filings. It's fascinating how they don't seem to care one whit about the reputation and career of the young women whose privacy and trust was violated by a bunch of bros, but they jump to defend the men. These actions were not "tangential" for the women whose pictures were shared.

I went back to reread the original materials and according to the quoted texts, Ramasar sent at least one explicit file: From the NYPost article:

"The lewd photo and video exchange became so widespread that while swapping snaps with Ramasar in May, Finlay allegedly replied: “Already seen that one, I know you have more.”""

Well, then, what about Catazaro, who right here on Broadway World completely denies he played any part in the photo sharing stuff - NONE.  Is he lying?  Is he being lumped in with everyone else who did take part?  That is the point - we don't know any of it but everyone does love to rush to judgment.  I'm sure when the union gets involved we will hear more from all sides involved.

 

[bwayrose7]

Posted: 9/16/18 at 8:58pm

bk said: "bwayrose7 said: "The "damage to their reputation" in that form letter really gets me. So, these fans are claiming that Ramasar's reputation has been appropriately "damaged," but that making casting decisions based on that reputation is not appropriate? The logic baffles me, as does the idea that "reputation" is an actual punishment. Clearly his reputation hasn't suffered that much, if so many people are willing to ignore the evidence in the legal filings. It's fascinating how they don't seem to care one whit about the reputation and career of the young women whose privacy and trust was violated by a bunch of bros, but they jump to defend the men. These actions were not "tangential" for the women whose pictures were shared.

I went back to reread the original materials and according to the quoted texts, Ramasar sent at least one explicit file: From the NYPost article:

"The lewd photo and video exchange became so widespread that while swapping snaps with Ramasar in May, Finlay allegedly replied: “Already seen that one, I know you have more.”""

Well, then, what about Catazaro, who right here on Broadway World completely denies he played any part in the photo sharing stuff - NONE. Is he lying? Is he being lumped in with everyone else who did take part? That is the point - we don't know any of it but everyone does love to rush to judgment. I'm sure when the union gets involved we will hear more from all sides involved."

No clue about Catazaro. I was responding to the poster who was specifically talking about Ramasar. It does seem strange that, if there was a whole bunch of dancers involved in the group chat or whatever it was, that only three were singled out. Finlay we know, or can guess, but it seems like there's some piece of info missing as to why actions were taken against certain dancers but not others (unless only the three of them were involved, which doesn't seem to be the case judging by the tone of the filings).

I will say that yes, I do "rush to judge" someone who shares explicit photos without consent. I don't have the standing to judge contracts and professional repercussions, but as a human being, I think the actions described and the overall atmosphere they speak to are despicable, inexcusable, and a nightmarish invasion of privacy.

[bk]

Posted: 9/16/18 at 9:50pm

No one condones such things.  But I was, as you well know, specifically talking about one person who emphatically denies being any part of this - that is what I'm talking about in terms of rush to judgment.  If the ex-boyfriend did this then he is a pig.  As to what part the others played, that, I'm sure will come out, and that is what you should absolutely NOT rush to judgement about, but I suspect that's just the way it is these days.

[LuPita2]

Posted: 9/16/18 at 9:53pm

Amar is an amazing dancer and I am sure donors and supporters of the NYCB went in part because of him. It's a business and the last thing they want to do is lose money or lose one of the few POC in the company.

But, you can't be fired without cause. He must have violated his contract (I have no specifics but he might have had a morality clause in his) in some way becaues they don't just fire principal dancers for no reason. Everyone who has seen him perform knows he is incredibly gifted and dances beautifully.  His Instagram post was very arrogant and obviously playing to people's emotions. I understand his entire career is on the line but I seriously doubt that his legal team will get him reinstated. He was a star on the rise, such a shame. How incredibly stupid of him.  

Updated On: 9/16/18 at 09:53 PM

[Call_me_jorge]

Posted: 9/16/18 at 10:08pm

bk said: "No one condones such things. But I was, as you well know, specifically talking about one person who emphatically denies being any part of this - that is what I'm talking about in terms of rush to judgment. If the ex-boyfriend did this then he is a pig. As to what part the others played, that, I'm sure will come out, and that is what you should absolutely NOT rush to judgement about, but I suspect that's just the way it is these days."

Whether Amar wanted those messages or not, he still didn’t do anything about it. If I were the recipient of a message like that I would take it up to my employer right away. Amar did not do that. He is complicit in what happened.

[bk]

Posted: 9/16/18 at 11:47pm

Call_me_jorge said: "bk said: "No one condones such things. But I was, as you well know, specifically talking about one person who emphatically denies being any part of this - that is what I'm talking about in terms of rush to judgment. If the ex-boyfriend did this then he is a pig. As to what part the others played, that, I'm sure will come out, and that is what you should absolutely NOT rush to judgement about, but I suspect that's just the way it is these days."

Whether Amar wanted those messages or not, he still didn’t do anything about it. If I were the recipient of a message like that I would take it up to my employer right away. Amar did not do that. He is complicit in what happened."

If you're quoting me then read my post.  I'm not talking about Amar, I'm talking about Catazaro, who denies any part of it.  So, don't quote me as if I was talking about this Amar fellow when I clearly was not.

[starcatchers]

Posted: 9/17/18 at 12:07am

I believe they’re referring to me. I actually hadn’t seen that Catazaro had also denied it.

[bk]

Posted: 9/17/18 at 12:51pm

starcatchers said: "I believe they’re referring to me. I actually hadn’t seen that Catazaro had also denied it."

If he was referring to you he should have quoted you :)  Here is the pertinent part of Catazaro's statement, which, in most news stories, has been carefully omitted for reasons one has to question:  

Firstly, I want to clarify that I did not initiate, was not involved in, or associated with any of Alexandra Waterbury's personal material that was allegedly shared with others.

Although I was initially suspended for other private and personal communications, the NYCB dancers' union--AGMA (American Guild of Musical Artists)--maintains that these communications were during off-work hours, and do not justify termination.

Clearly, the negative press from the lawsuit filed by Ms. Waterbury--in which I stress that I have not been named as a defendant--has caused harm to the company's reputation, as well as mine. These circumstances could happen to anyone, in any profession, when personal and private communications are involved but where the intent was not to harm or embarrass anyone.

 

[bwayrose7]

Posted: 9/17/18 at 12:56pm

bk said: "starcatchers said: "I believe they’re referring to me. I actually hadn’t seen that Catazaro had also denied it."

If he was referring to you he should have quoted you :) Here is the pertinent part of Catazaro's statement, which, in most news stories, has been carefully omitted for reasons one has to question:

Firstly, I want to clarify that I did not initiate, was not involved in, or associated with any of Alexandra Waterbury's personal material that was allegedly shared with others.

Although I was initially suspended for other private and personal communications, the NYCB dancers' union--AGMA (American Guild of Musical Artists)--maintains that these communications were during off-work hours, and do not justify termination.

Clearly, the negative press from the lawsuit filed by Ms. Waterbury--in which I stress that I have not been named as a defendant--has caused harm to the company's reputation, as well as mine. These circumstances could happen to anyone, in any profession, when personal and private communications are involved but where the intent was not to harm or embarrass anyone."

Catazaro is the big question mark for me as well. His statement is clearly geared towards Ms. Waterbury's suit, however, and does reference "other communications." There were other women whose private images were shared, though, were there not? I wonder if the communications in general rose to the level of "hostile work environment" and that's the reason behind the terminations... but it still doesn't make sense, with the information that is publicly available why only three people have been terminated, if more than the three of them were involved in this chain. I have a feeling this mess is only just beginning to unravel.

[starcatchers]

Posted: 9/17/18 at 12:59pm

https://www.instagram.com/p/Bn1VElYAjUE/?utm_source=ig_share_sheet&igshid=113jyw064exyz

Another statement from Ramasar, also referencing “other communications.”

[Wick3]

Posted: 9/17/18 at 1:13pm

bwayrose7 said: "I have a feeling this mess is only just beginning to unravel."

Yes I definitely agree.

I read the Wall Street Journal article on the issue and it stated NYCB is doing financially well for a non-profit. It has a $88.8 million annual budget and has successfully balanced its budget the last 6 seasons. Thus far this year NYCB already fundraised $65 million out of its $70 million campaign goal. On top of all that, NYCB has an endowment of $225 million.

NYCB definitely has money.

[VintageSnarker]

Posted: 9/17/18 at 1:15pm

starcatchers said: "https://www.instagram.com/p/Bn1VElYAjUE/?utm_source=ig_share_sheet&igshid=113jyw064exyz

Another statement from Ramasar, also referencing “other communications.”"

Well, that's wildly confusing. If, in fact, he did not participate in the group chat or circulate photos why would they have fired him? Surely there must be some actual evidence (e.g. texts, screenshots, etc.) that proves who was involved one way or the other. Isn't that what started this?

[ameliewormwood]

Posted: 9/17/18 at 2:26pm

Just a note, I was at the show last night and everyone received entrance applause, though his seemed a bit hesitant and awkward. 

[JSquared2]

Posted: 9/17/18 at 2:33pm

Call_me_jorge said: "Whether Amar wanted those messages or not, he still didn’t do anything about it. If I were the recipient of a message like that I would take it up to my employer right away. Amar did not do that. He is complicit in what happened."

 

It's lovely that YOU would do that.  However, there is no "Good Samaritan" clause in any guild contract I've ever come across requiring one performer to "turn in" another performer to management.  Just like if one of my co-workers sent me a "d"ck pic" of Bob from accounting, I have no legal obligation to tell my boss.  Would it be the "moral" thing to do, probably. Would it be the decent thing to let Bob know that there are pics out there -- yes.  Is it legally actionable --- no.

[pinoyidol2006]

Posted: 9/17/18 at 2:34pm

Waterbury’s lawsuit has Ramasar pinned down for two things: sending photos of an NYCB dancer to Finlay and receiving photos of Waterbury. The lawsuit states that Finlay has acknowledged to Ramasar that the photos of Waterbury were taken and sent without her consent.

However, if I were to defend Ramasar, the best I can say is that the “acknowledgment” is vague enough to give him some degree of deniability. The lawsuit says that Finlay’s acknowledgment was something along the lines of Waterbury “might get pissed” that they were exchanging photos of other women.

[DottieD'Luscia]

Posted: 9/17/18 at 2:35pm

I was at last night's performance, and from where I was sitting (front mezz), Amar's entrance applause wasn't hesitant at all.  On a side note, there were a bunch of NYCB dancers sitting directly behind me.

[pinoyidol2006]

Posted: 9/17/18 at 2:41pm

Many of NYCB’s dancers still seem to support him, including his girlfriend. Some of his frequent partners have also shown support on instagram. I honestly have no idea what to make of this. I personally wouldn’t feel comfortable as an audience member seeing him partnering a woman on stage, especially since dancers have little choice when it comes to casting at a ballet company.

[SarahNYC]

Posted: 9/17/18 at 2:42pm

Ramasar posted a second instagram post - in order to "clarify". But what's amazing is that in it, he admits to receiving AND sending photographs, but says the photos he sent were consensual. Even it that IS true - the minute they left his possession and were in someone else's hands (read: phone) they weren't under his control and they were, more or less, pornography that he distributed. He also basically confirms Finlay's guilt (not that any of us had any doubt in THAT department) and he also NEVER actually apologizes. This entire ordeal STINKS and whoever is advising Ramasar, and Catazaro for that matter, and whoever is in charge at NYCB (likely NO one) all need better advice and legal help STAT. What. A. Mess. 

[Elegance101]

Posted: 9/17/18 at 2:50pm

Someone said it in the comments of his second post from today, but he has not apologized. He has “taken responsibility,” but has yet to show any honest remorse. I do not know him personally (and clearly a lot of people in this community do and are on his side), but I feel gross after reading both of his posts. He says he takes responsibility, but the rest of his words don’t reflect that.

[ScottyDoesn'tKnow2]

Posted: 9/17/18 at 3:03pm

Isn't there a text message that shows Ramasar encouraged Finlay to send him more material and that he acknowledged that they may have not been taken with Finlay's partner's consent? When Ramasar says "consensual" did he mean Finlay's partner consent to have her nudes taken AND to have it shared among his and her peers and beyond so they could gawk at her? Either way, I think the behavior is something that would really create a horrible environment for women in the company whether or not their pictures were a part of the text sharing scheme. You know how they were viewing their female co-workers and probably were daring each other to get nudes of them as well.

Updated On: 9/17/18 at 03:03 PM

[WayTooBroadway]

Posted: 9/17/18 at 3:16pm

Instagram statement from September 15th:
I am shocked and deeply saddened by the New York City Ballet’s decision to fire me. I am a complete product of SAB starting from boys 1 and from there have dedicated 18 years of my life to NYCB, an institution that I love with all my heart. I am an honest and honorable person, and have always treated everyone, including my colleagues, staff, friends and others at NYCB, with the upmost respect. My full story has yet to be revealed and as a result, people have concluded the worst about me. Unfortunately we live in a time where allegations are taken as fact, and actions are made rashly and harshly. I am a poor, minority kid from the streets of the Bronx and have risen against all odds with hard work for everything I have been able to achieve. It takes a lifetime to build a good reputation and a career, but only a second for it to be destroyed. In the days ahead, I will be telling my side. Thankfully I have been receiving many messages of support from my colleagues and Union, who will be challenging my termination. In a rush judgment, NYCB has made a mistake, which in fairness must be rectified. All I want is to be able to share my love of dance with the ballet world again in the future. The biggest thank you to all of the ballerinas and other dancers that I have had the greatest honor of dancing with and have respected for the past 18 years.

Instagram statement from September 17th:
After processing my termination for a couple days , I have some additions to my last post ... As I said before, It is unfortunate that we live in a time where allegations are taken as fact. The real fact is that I was not in any way part of a group chat that people have erroneously linked me to, based on the allegations of a lawsuit. The disturbing comments about women being "farm animals", "sluts", “abused”, “raped”, and “tied up”, are not my words and never will be. It also needs to be said that I do not posses more than one NYCB female dancers photo. All photos are of a single Consenting adult, and the photos that were sent to me I have not circulated. The messages exchanged between Mr. Finlay and myself were private and sent on personal time outside of work, as New York City Ballet stated. That being said, I do take responsibility for my part in this. I am by no means saying that I have not made mistakes in life , and humbly admit times when my better judgement has been skewed. I feel deeply for Ms. Waterbury’s pain and those in New York City Ballet who are upset about this situation. The strong negative impact on the company and women involved is weighing heavily on all. I cannot change the past and will move forward having learned a great deal. I am taking this time to look inward and better myself in order to grasp the ramifications of this situation. I honestly hold all women and all people regardless of their gender, age, religion, and skin color to the highest and upmost respect. I will be taking a break from social media for a bit but I want to thank all my followers for their support, prayers, and love  ??