BREAKING: Mandy Patinkin Withdraws from THE GREAT COMET- Page 11

[dramamama611]

Posted: 7/29/17 at 5:12am

I find everything about this upsetting, but most of all what seems like the death of the show.  

 

As I've mentioned, we already had tickets during Mandy's run. WANTING to see Oak, my 16 year old son spent HIS money on additional tickets. I'm wondering if I'll be able get a refund on the "nobody" tix, seeing how I bought them well over a month  ago. I don't have a reason to see it [again] just for the sake of it.  

[BroadwayBaby4]

Posted: 7/29/17 at 6:35am

I'm really not sure how this whole thing got brought back to race (again) but especially after the Malloy tweets I think it is clear what happened. Great Comet is a business like any other. The job of every person there? To make the business money. Was casting Oak a good decision financially? The producers gave him 4/5 months of advanced ticket sales and saw no, it was not. Because of that they had to ask Brittain to go on leave so they could bring in Ingrid, a semi-star to pick up the slack from Groban leaving. Did that suck for Brittain? Yeah, it certainly did. But nothing was mentioned on twitter so to the world it was just "Oh cool a month of Ingrid, how exciting!" I'm sure producers hoped they'd make enough money with Ingrid to coast through into September and maybe generate some more attention for late August. Clearly that was not the case.

As I said before, it's a business, they needed to take whatever opportunity to make money and if that was Mandy Patinkin coming in during Oak's run to keep them alive, then that's what they had to do. Did they handle it in the best way? Obviously not. But instead of looking at it is "Oak got kicked out!" We should be looking at as Oak's job is ultimately to sell tickets. No matter how good or bad his performance is, if he doesn't sell tickets he is not doing his job well. Same as any other job, you are rewarded or fired based on the return on investment. As bad as the optics might look, this was just an employee getting a severance package to leave a job he couldn't fulfill on. 

Also to those saying they producers should have been outright about the financial situation, what company has ever said "we're about to go broke so we needed someone to save us?" When has that ever looked good for anyone?

As for those of you ganging up on GeorgeandDot, if I were mad about something at work, and then my friend tweeted all about it, putting a place that maybe didn't treat me the best but ultimately was a good place for others to work in jeopardy, I would tell them to pull those tweets down. Maybe Oak didn't have anything to do with these tweets, but he also had the opportunity to ask to get them taken down or to say he didn't agree with those statements and he didn't . By doing that he was implicitly agreeing with all of those tweets aimed to hurt not just the producers, but the cast, crew and creator of one of the most diverse shows on Broadway. He had the opportunity to say "hey guys this is a ****ty situation but don't bash the show when producers are at fault" but he didn't and that allowed the twitter situation to reach the peak it did.  

[Skimbleshanks2]

Posted: 7/29/17 at 7:05am

All this drama over a guy no one outside the theater community has heard of!! Boo hoo, OAK... cry me a river... 

As a huge COMET fan I cannot tell you how annoyed I am right now... I'm sooo over CYNTHIA ERIVO and her arrogance 

[Broadway Joe]

Posted: 7/29/17 at 7:06am

I visit this board frequently enough to think I'm rather informed but I had no idea who Oak even was and apparently I saw him in Hamilton after checking ibdb. If someone like me doesn't even know who he was how the hell was he going to sell tickets to the general public? 

I also have no clue who the hell Rafael Casal is but after reading his annoying tweets he's on my list of people to never support(the only other person on that list is Patti Murin) I'm beyond tired of reading about these twitter warriors and their fake white guilt. The phrase "my privilege" is one of the most annoying phrases out there. 

Oak was going to be paid not to show up for work, I wish I was privileged enough to have that happen to me!

Updated On: 7/29/17 at 07:06 AM

[dramamama611]

Posted: 7/29/17 at 7:11am

BroadwayBaby -- how do you know he didn't ask his friend to stop?  Just because he didn't do it publicly doesn't mean he didn't do it. (and I realize he might NOT have, but I admit: I dont know, therefore I will not assume.)

 

Skimble -- wait, so sticking up for someone isn't necessary when its an unknown/non-famous person?   Ridiculous -- those people need support MORE.

 

I understand why it was done, the true only unreasonable part is the people thinking they are righting a wrong.  It wasn't a wrong, it was unfortunate.

[GeorgeandDot]

Posted: 7/29/17 at 7:11am

Thank you Broadwaybaby.  That really is the thought that I have been trying to get across.

Also, I love Cynthia Erivo to death.  She's such a remarkable talent, but she needs to learn to have some control.  Her twitter page is really negative, which is the opposite of how she is in person.  I just worry how this will affect her career in the future.  She needs to learn to block out the haters and live her life.

[schubox]

Posted: 7/29/17 at 7:17am

I know this won't happen, but I feel like the only thing that could save the show at this point is if Oak makes a statement saying he appreciates Mandy's support but that he doesn't want to see the show close over this and that he has his blessing to come in and play the part.

again, that won't happen and would take an incredible gesture from Oak, but it might work 

[BroadwayBaby4]

Posted: 7/29/17 at 7:19am

dramamama611 said: "BroadwayBaby -- how do you know he didn't ask his friend to stop?  Just because he didn't do it publicly doesn't mean he didn't do it. (and I realize he might NOT have, but I admit: I dont know, therefore I will not assume.)

 

Skimble -- wait, so sticking up for someone isn't necessary when its an unknown/non-famous person?   Ridiculous -- those people need support MORE.

 

I understand why it was done, the true only unreasonable part is the people thinking they are righting a wrong.  It wasn't a wrong, it was unfortunate.

 

"

I don't know if he did or didn't ask those tweets to be taken down, but by not saying anything after they all came out he implicitly agreed with the meaning behind them. 

[JBC3]

Posted: 7/29/17 at 7:24am

It is a business, a difficult one, but when you lost your job in this business it is different than a computer programmer who presumably can then apply for hundreds of possible openings.

The producers handled this (and a lot about this show) poorly.

The situation is multi-faceted and people are viewing it through their own lenses of what matters most to them ... diversity, fairness, ticket sales, celebrity, et al. That leads to vastly different interpretations of the same event (some clouded by confirmation bias), few of which tell the whole story. As the Quakers say, "Everyone holds a piece of the truth."

We do not learn from each other here (if that is of any interest) if we merely hop on and keep advocating our own position repeatedly. Learning requires balancing sharing our own take with genuine interest in and inquiring as to why others might see this differently from us.

Erivo (and anyone else for that matter) does not need to change being who she is on social media to conform to others’ expectations. She speaks her truth and that can have both positive and negative consequences.

Updated On: 7/29/17 at 07:24 AM

[CorkySt.Clair]

Posted: 7/29/17 at 7:41am

I went to sleep so worried last night that I'd wake up to a closing notice...

Anyway, I thought of a really bad joke last night during my Comet-induced insomnia, and I'll put it here to add a tiny drop of sunshine to this storm. 

What did Ethel Merman, Tyne Daly, Patti LuPone, and Bernadette Peters say when the audience is walking out of their star vehicle?

Goddbye, my Gypsy lovers. 

Hardy har har 

[dramamama611]

Posted: 7/29/17 at 7:44am

Except he DID make a statement, (not that it addressed the tweets).  https://www.broadwayworld.com/article/Okieriete-Oak-Onaodowan-Opens-Up-About-GREAT-COMET-Exit-I-Will-Not-Be-Returning-20170728

 

(But I do see your point.)

[Dave28282]

Posted: 7/29/17 at 8:08am

J*s*s Chr*st.

"Nobodies" have been replaced by "big names" for as long as showbusiness exists.

Why is this suddenly turning into a zoo?

Is Oak not a normal human being? Is he entitled to be treated differently in some way?

[Dave28282]

Posted: 7/29/17 at 8:17am

"The show’s producers and creative team were clearly blindsided by the turn of events. They had previously asked another performer, Brittain Ashford, to take a leave during the summer so she could be replaced by a well-known singer-songwriter, Ingrid Michaelson, and did not anticipate that replacing Mr. Onaodowan with Mr. Patinkin would be seen differently.

“So sorry to have missed the racial optics of it,” the show’s creator, Dave Malloy said on Twitter Friday. “We had to do same thing with dear beloved Brittain so in my head it was no different.”

The question is, why should black people be seen differently and not be treated like everyone else?

There is a HUGE list of nobodies being replaced by stars. That's been going on for decades and decades.

Everyone who brings race into this is racist.

Updated On: 7/29/17 at 08:17 AM

[haterobics]

Posted: 7/29/17 at 8:24am

Dave28282 said: "Everyone who brings race into this is racist."

Somehow you make everything not about race yet it always sounds racist, too.

[MadonnaMusical]

Posted: 7/29/17 at 8:28am

Jordan Catalano said: "The show signed its own closing notice by replacing the star who was keeping it open with someone who nobody knows, hoping just the fact he touched Hamilton was enough to get people to spend money on him. It's truly one of the stupidest casting decisions I've ever seen. 

 

"

Agreed. Where was their common sense?

[Dave28282]

Posted: 7/29/17 at 8:33am

Haterobics, that's because I use the same attitude against racial separation as some others do in favor of it. That keeps it in balance.

I pray to god that someday people will see Oak as an actual human. Who can get fired too. Just like any other human. And who has the right to feel frustrated. Just like Stephanie J. Block when she was replaced by Menzel in Wicked.

But to bring race into this and actually apologize for firing a black person/replacing him when a month earlier literally the same thing happened with 2 white people is lunacy. Not everything is about race. This is a good example of that. The racists make it about race.

Updated On: 7/29/17 at 08:33 AM

[Wick3]

Posted: 7/29/17 at 8:41am

I'd think after this hoopla it will be very hard for Oak to find another job on Broadway in a leading role as producers may worry his name won't sell tickets and that if they try to replace him with a non-black actor before his contract ends, a similar incident may happen. Sort of like an unofficial blacklist.

[Dave28282]

Posted: 7/29/17 at 8:42am

MadonnaMusical said: "Jordan Catalano said: "The show signed its own closing notice by replacing the star who was keeping it open with someone who nobody knows, hoping just the fact he touched Hamilton was enough to get people to spend money on him. It's truly one of the stupidest casting decisions I've ever seen. 

 

"

Agreed. Where was their common sense?

 

"

Seeing some of the race reactions on twitter and some people clearly see race only, and love to live by that idea, maybe the casting directors gave him the role/it helped him getting the role/were influenced by peer pressure over time, because of his color? 

Now that's what he should be pissed about. That he may have gotten the role for the wrong reasons. Not the fact that big names mean better business. Because if you don't understand that, you should not be in showbusiness. From what I've heard he was nothing more than just "ok" in the role, acting wise and singing wise. Didn't really connect. And he clearly wasn't ready in time.

Who will ever hire someone who is entitled to not be able to get fired? This day is a black day in the history in mankind. The race gap grows bigger and bigger. Thanks Oak and Cynthia and consortes.

Updated On: 7/29/17 at 08:42 AM

[JBC3]

Posted: 7/29/17 at 9:00am

Since great opportunities for actors of color are usually more limited, of course race is going to be one lens through which people view this situation. Doing so is not racist.

[Dave28282]

Posted: 7/29/17 at 9:09am

JBC3 said: "Since great opportunities for actors of color are usually more limited, of course race is going to be one lens through which people view this situation. Doing so is not racist."

 

The statistics say otherwise. The percentage of people of color on Broadway shows versus the percentage of the population is actually much bigger, as shown in another thread. There seem to be a lot of opportunities for people of color, more then for caucasians percentage wise.

With that said, choosing to see a case of someone being fired for reasons cleary aside from race, as a race thing is racist. Those people should really evaluate why they feel the need to pull race into this and why they think it will help not treating someone as human. This false entitlement will ruin society.


 

Updated On: 7/29/17 at 09:09 AM

[JBC3]

Posted: 7/29/17 at 9:19am

Dave28282 said The statistics say otherwise. The percentage of people of color in Broadway shows versus the percentage of the population is actually much bigger, as shown in another thread. There seem to be a lot of opportunities for people of color, more then for caucasians percentage wise.

With that said, choosing to see a case of someone being fired for reasons cleary aside from race, as a race thing is racist.

 

1. I am not sure this is the relevant percentage as it does not address what % of available roles on Broadway are available/going to actors of color? The general population is not the landscape being discussed.

2. I intentionally specified great opportunities, of which actors of color themselves are saying are harder for the to come by.

And if someone only sees this situation through the lens of race that is indeed a limiting perspective, but it does not in any way meet the definition of racism ... prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against someone of a different race based on the belief that one's own race is superior.
 

 

 

 

[Dave28282]

Posted: 7/29/17 at 9:21am

It definitely is prejudice and entitlement. And also discrimination, because what's happening is "making a distinction in favor of a person based on the group, class, or category to which the person is perceived to belong rather than on individual attributes".

Racism is discrimination and prejudice towards people based on their race or ethnicity, so it is exactly that.

Updated On: 7/29/17 at 09:21 AM

[JBC3]

Posted: 7/29/17 at 9:37am

This is a thoughtful perspective from an All that Chat commenter.

I had thought they had escaped unscathed from their mishandling of Oak's arrival, but now I think that staying mum on the delay - as well as the delay itself - hurt them with public perception and is fueling the sentiment against them.

And it's not hard to see why this has rubbed many people the wrong way.

Viewed through a certain lens, they set Oak up for a spectacular failure when they marketed him as a star (while failing completely to do the advance PR work to make him a star), and then ensured that failure by compromising his entrance into the show,
and then very suddenly - and publicly - terminating his appearance in the show, bringing in his complete opposite to take over the part.

I can see why this became a dramatic story. I can see why many people view this as another example of how white America makes it difficult for Black men and to succeed in traditionally white realms. I'm sure it wasn't the Kagans' intention to moonlight Oak, but that was the result.

And they're still doing it. In their latest apology, they continue to put the blame on Oak, rather than themselves. They're sorry that Oak took all this the wrong way, rather than anything they did.

This is like a year ago, when many people saw Scott Rudin putting the blame on the pregnant lady for shutting down "Shuffle Along", but with larger repercussions.

I do have a lot of respect for Dave Malloy. He very quickly took the responsibility on himself, which must have been very hard to do.

Ultimately, two great artists find themselves humbled, and Rachel Chavkin and her company are watching their show turn into the very thing they built it to act against. This is the kind of producing that is damaging to the art and the artists, and I'm sure both Oak and Dave are thinking of all of the warning signs they ignored on their way to this public embarrassment. (At least Dave got his show on Broadway for 9 months.)

[perfectlymarvelous]

Posted: 7/29/17 at 9:54am

That post is pretty much right on target. 

[Dave28282]

Posted: 7/29/17 at 9:58am

JBC3 said: " Viewed through a certain lens, they set Oak up for a spectacular failure when they marketed him as a star (while failing completely to do the advance PR work to make him a star), and then ensured that failure by compromising his entrance into the show, and then very suddenly - and publicly - terminating his appearance in the show, bringing in his complete opposite to take over the part."

I agree, giving him the part was the mistake. The producers realize this now too. They should not have to apologize to anyone except Oak, because he's the one out of work. The only thing they should have done is make a statement which said that unfortunately they made a mistake by casting him, he turned out to be not meeting their expectations, and that's it. Their apologies to anyone racist who feels betrayed is lunacy. They should be above that.


" I can see why this became a dramatic story. I can see why many people view this as another example of how white America makes it difficult for Black men and to succeed in traditionally white realms. I'm sure it wasn't the Kagans' intention to moonlight Oak, but that was the result." 

I can see that too, seeing how crazy some people are but this should not be the producer's business. They should be above that.


" I do have a lot of respect for Dave Malloy. He very quickly took the responsibility on himself, which must have been very hard to do." 

By doing what? Saying that the show's action is racist because they are not content with Oak? That really is a lame duck reaction. He would only get my respect if he would acknowledge that is sucks for oak, but that the show is above that discussion.