Broadway question about the film Birdman.
Broadway question about the film Birdman.
#1Broadway question about the film Birdman.
Posted: 3/24/15 at 2:08pm
OK, I realize the show was a fantasy and had lots of totally unbelievable things. But I couldn't get over the idea of the guy locking himself outside the stage door and having to run around to enter the theatre through the lobby. The theatre is the St. James. We see the guy leave the stage door (not sure it's the actual stage door, or just an emergency exit where he steps outside for a smoke). We next see him going north to south through Times Square presumably between 44th and 43rd. And then we see him walking east past Angus and then into the lobby of the St. James.
So the question is -- why would he go all the way around the block from a stage door on 44th, through Times Square, then west on 43rd, north on 8th, and back to the east on 44th? Or if somehow there is an emergency exit on 43rd, that doesn't explain why he was walking from north to south through Times Square, or how he would have ended up on 44th to the west of the St. James lobby.
I guess the basic idea is it was more fun to have him going through Times Square in his underwear than simply going next door from stage door to lobby, but this sort of geographic inconsistency drives me crazy.
neonlightsxo
Broadway Legend Joined: 7/29/08
#2Broadway question about the film Birdman.
Posted: 3/24/15 at 2:15pmYou obviously know the geography, so you answered your own question. It's a filmmaking choice.
#2Broadway question about the film Birdman.
Posted: 3/24/15 at 2:23pm
Just watched that clip of the movie again and you're totally right. The geography is way off in a LOT of different ways. In the narrative of the movie, I think we are meant to believe that there was an emergency exit on 43rd, and he had to go all the way around the block to the lobby on 44th, but there are so many things about what we see in the movie that make no sense.
Yes, it was an artistic choice to have him walk through Times Square, so I can sort of understand the need to change the geography so it isn't like real life. The issue is that the geography is so wildly different from what it would be for the rest of the movie. It creates internal inconsistencies, which is more of a filmmaking issue.
#3Broadway question about the film Birdman.
Posted: 3/24/15 at 2:35pmI noticed this when watching the movie too, quite bothering for a Broadway fan
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theatremom2
Understudy Joined: 5/22/03
#4Broadway question about the film Birdman.
Posted: 3/24/15 at 2:44pmMany people have dreams/thoughts about being naked in public. It can be related to fear exposure, volnerability or humiliation. I thought this scene went on too long and was never quite sure if it was 'real' or part of his fantasy life
#5Broadway question about the film Birdman.
Posted: 3/24/15 at 2:46pmYes, my point is that if only he had walked south to north through that block of Times Square and then we saw him walking west past Sardi's or somewhere, it could all make sense -- and surely would have been just as easy to film. Then we could believe there was a back entrance on 43rd and he'd logically have to go that way.
#6Broadway question about the film Birdman.
Posted: 3/24/15 at 2:48pmI think the film's depiction geography of the theatre district is sort of beside the point. Does the film even go out of the way to specify or depict the name of the theatre the production is being mounted at?
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Jay94
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Wilmingtom
Broadway Legend Joined: 7/18/11
#8Broadway question about the film Birdman.
Posted: 3/24/15 at 3:21pmIt's not a documentary about the geography of the theater district. This happens in every movie no matter where it's shot. If you're familiar with Chicago, you'll catch things in Blues Brothers that don't make sense. But for me that's part of the fun of seeing a movie that's shot where you live. You're picking up on stuff that 99% of the audience will never realize.
#9Broadway question about the film Birdman.
Posted: 3/24/15 at 4:20pm
But again, I guess much of my point is that it would have been just as easy to film it with the guy going the other direction in Times Square and then it would have made sense. Why deliberately do it backwards?
But while we're at it, I'm sure nearly 99% of the audience missed most of the acting references as well. But that doesn't mean they would deliberately state them wrong, does it?
theatremom2
Understudy Joined: 5/22/03
#10Broadway question about the film Birdman.
Posted: 3/24/15 at 4:24pmBesides the St. James, there are a lot of 'inside' references: ghost light, the 'off book' comment, the structure of rehersal, et al. It played to such a specific group, I'm surpised the movie had a general appeal, away from the theater centric. For myself, at the end, I sat there quite willing to accept this guy thinks he can turn into a giant bird, but objected to the open window. Most hospital windows don't open at all and the ones that do are generally braced at a couple of inches. To each their own reality.
#11Broadway question about the film Birdman.
Posted: 3/24/15 at 4:36pm
"It played to such a specific group, I'm surpised the movie had a general appeal, away from the theater centric."
Well, I'm not so sure it did have much general appeal.
And I'm with you on the window thing. I thought right away, whoever heard of a hospital window you could open wide and jump out of? But of course that was necessary to the plot. Some things are easier for me to accept than others.
Bwaydide92
Leading Actor Joined: 5/16/12
#12Broadway question about the film Birdman.
Posted: 3/24/15 at 4:45pm
He actually walks out onto 46th street, much closer to where the Marquis or the Rodgers stage doors would be. Although, I don't think he walks out of the stage door, I think he walks out of the loading door, since it is much wider and actually on the stage. Stage doors are attached to the backstage, not directly the stage. I know it's 46th street because he walks by American Eagle, which is one the corner of 46th and Broadway.
He then turns south onto Broadway and turns west onto 45th. Or what should be 45th, because whatever lobby he walks into is not a Broadway theatre. The Music Box would be the closest to his location, but that is much further into 45th than is shown in the film. Another mistake they made is that he walks into a theatre on the north side of the street. The St. James is on the south side of 44th.
Completely wrong geographically, but much more interesting cinematically.
#13Broadway question about the film Birdman.
Posted: 3/24/15 at 11:15pmNot to mention that they place the Rum House next to the St. James and not three blocks away.
#14Broadway question about the film Birdman.
Posted: 3/24/15 at 11:24pm
I thought this scene was an homage to Carol Channing who tells a story very frequently about stepping outside a door at the St. James during the middle of a show (I want to say it was during Before the Parade Passes By). She was forced to try to re-enter the theater through the lobby and she claims no one recognized her and she wasn't going to be able to get back in the theater for the end of the number! She finally prevailed and ran down the aisle to the stage where she was helped up and triumphantly finished the number.
I don't know if there's any truth to the tale, but to hear her tell it is a riot.
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Tony: Eh, she's a no chip!
#15Broadway question about the film Birdman.
Posted: 3/24/15 at 11:39pmI think a general audience would not notice what we know so I guess that could be part of the reason they did that. Yes, I was going to mention when 44th turns into 47th when he goes to the Rum House and walks past the Edison. I think that was done to keep the style continuously flowing without delaying the action. Like would walking 3 blocks look interesting? Probably not.
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djoko84
Broadway Star Joined: 3/14/13
#16Broadway question about the film Birdman.
Posted: 3/25/15 at 7:53amOnly NYC people who frequent the theatre district often would know that the movie changed the geography of the streets. 99% of people watching the movie would not. It was a filmmaking decision.
#17Broadway question about the film Birdman.
Posted: 3/25/15 at 8:05am
Patash,
Yours is a really good question. After I saw this film, I have to say I had a lot of questions. I hadn't noticed the impossibility of Riggan's walk around the theatre, but alot of other people have. I found a great IMDB thread that discusses it at length. It basically posits that Riggan has been in an unconscious state since the beginning of the film. The image of the jellyfish at the beginning indicate that he has been stung and hospitalized, with the majority of the film taking place in a dream world. It also asserts that the foray around the building in his underwear is a dream trope in which anxieties about feeling vulnerable in front of other manifest themselves in realizing one is naked or in a state of partial undress in front of others, being late for an appointment, or being locked out of a building. I dug up the thread for you. This writer explains it better than I can. It's a pretty interesting read:
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt2562232/board/thread/239206350
I need to watch this film again with some of these observations in mind. I'm curious to hear your thoughts.
Updated On: 3/25/15 at 08:05 AM
#18Broadway question about the film Birdman.
Posted: 3/25/15 at 8:56am
"He then turns south onto Broadway and turns west onto 45th. Or what should be 45th, because whatever lobby he walks into is not a Broadway theatre. The Music Box would be the closest to his location, but that is much further into 45th than is shown in the film. Another mistake they made is that he walks into a theatre on the north side of the street. The St. James is on the south side of 44th."
Um, no, the theatre he entered WAS clearly the St. James, and he had passed Angus MacIndoe just before that, so clearly he WAS on the south side of 44th. So when he entered the lobby of the St. James he was clearly walking west to east on 44th. Meaning he would have had to walk from Times Square to 8th Avenue probably on 43rd to get to the west side of Angus before entering the lobby.
I missed the Rum House and American Eagle! But I don't doubt you. The fact remains, the route made no sense.
MadAboutTheBoy, yes, I always go to IMDB and especially check out the "goofs". I'm not sure how I feel about the "majority of the film taking place in a dream world". The part I was more focused on was the fine line between "pretending in real life and pretending on stage" as mentioned by Ed Norton.
TalkinLoud
Broadway Legend Joined: 3/3/09
#19Broadway question about the film Birdman.
Posted: 3/25/15 at 9:02amYou know how some people will talk about a Batman or sci-fi movie and be like "This isn't scientifically accurate because...."
Huss417
Broadway Legend Joined: 5/15/03
#20Broadway question about the film Birdman.
Posted: 3/25/15 at 10:02amI know Im in the minority but pretty much most of this movie didn't make sense to me.
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#21Broadway question about the film Birdman.
Posted: 3/25/15 at 10:33am
"I know Im in the minority but pretty much most of this movie didn't make sense to me."
No, Huss417, I actually think you're in the majority.
#22Broadway question about the film Birdman.
Posted: 3/25/15 at 3:01pmin movies what works cinematically doesn't always jibe with reality...I noticed it too and thought ok, let the director work with what he thinks looks more visual...and to me it worked just fine!...btw I thought BIRDMAN was the best movie of the year!
GreasedLightning
Broadway Legend Joined: 2/11/14
#23Broadway question about the film Birdman.
Posted: 3/25/15 at 3:02pmThis thread infuriates me. Haha.
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