CAROUSEL (2018) Previews- Page 22

[SomethingPeculiar]

Posted: 3/14/18 at 4:10pm

I think people love Carousel for its score and its dance, but they forget about the other parts (or they forgive them).

In terms of modern R&H popularity, I would guess that Sound of Music is at the very top of the list, and then there’s a second tier: King & I, South Pacific, Carousel, and Oklahoma (in no particular order). I bet Oklahoma is still the second-most produced R&H show — but it might suffer from overexposure, it’s kinda corny and not as “glamorous”/exotic as the other titles.

[JSquared2]

Posted: 3/14/18 at 4:10pm

Jarethan said: "Schmuli said: "In light of the varied comments posted on this message board, I decided to see show other night for 2nd time. My observations follow. 1) Star-keeper seems out of sort, randomly appearing throughout play, without any real rhyme or reason. I’d definitely scrap/re-work this bit as it’s simply not working. 2) would be nice if investors/Director could use better prop, as in an actual small scale working Carousel. It’d be great visual and enhance audience experience, 3) chemistry between Billy and Julie is totally fine. They are each world class performers. All the “critics” on this board need to understand that the material is restrictive and only permits so much chemistry-building, 4) Choreography and actual Ballet in Louise’s Act Two scene is world class——> she is elegance personified, 5) Yes, play is somewhat dated but topics of spousal/child abuse are unfortunately as relevant today as ever. Play forces audience to squirm a bit and confront the fact that it’s still out there today often hidden from the public eye, and 6) singing by all is outstanding, particularly Messrs Henry and Snow and Ms Mendez and Ms Fleming. All in all, it’s fantastic to see R&H’s favorite work brought back to life. There’s still a month before it’s official opening and with some minor tweaks, this revival should be a big success. Go see it. It’s well worth it."

In what parallel universe is Carousel the most loved of R&H musicals???? I have assumed that you are a shill (SIC) for the show, based on some of your comments and the date you joined this board. You need to tone it down, though.
 

Uhh, Jarethan, dude, if anyone needs to "tone it down", I'd say it's you, dear.  Relax!  As others have pointed out, Schmuli clearly said that Carousel is R+H's favorite work --- which according to numerous sources, it was.  Also, I fail to see how your personal opinions of any of their shows is relevant to the discussion at hand?? 

[TNick926]

Posted: 3/14/18 at 4:44pm

Jarenthan said: "In what parallel universe is Carousel the most loved of R&H musicals???? I have assumed that you are a shill (SIC) for the show, based on some of your comments and the date you joined this board.  You need to tone it down, though".

Rodgers and Hammerstein's licensing webpage has a thumbnail description of CAROUSEL, which concludes with the line "...of all the shows they created, CAROUSEL was Rodgers and Hammerstein's personal favorite."  http://www.rnh.com/show/20/Carousel

Having noted that, I would say personally that it's my favorite of all the R&H scores, but NOT my favorite show...that would be THE KING AND I.  And SOUTH PACIFIC a close second.  Just my opinion.

I'm looking forward to seeing this on March 29, but I'm going in with tempered expectations based on the comments I've read in this thread so far...and I have to say, I appreciate all the passion this subject generates!!  Surely that alone would make R&H happy.... :)

 

Updated On: 3/14/18 at 04:44 PM

[ampi2]

Posted: 3/14/18 at 5:57pm

i'm seeing first row partial view seats for $59 on telecharge, how bad are they?? 

[HighFlyingAdored97]

Posted: 3/14/18 at 7:08pm

I caught today's matinee, I pretty much agree with what everyone has said so far. The singing is beautiful and is the highlight of the show. The design just looks flat out cheap. Jessie and Josh are great individually, but don't have chemistry as a pair. Any low simmering heat you saw between Kelli and Ken in The King and I isn't present here. Also, they've removed Geraniums/Stonecutters from the Playbill.

[bwayphreak234]

Posted: 3/14/18 at 7:12pm

ampi2 said: "i'm seeing first row partial view seats for $59 on telecharge, how bad are they??"

Honestly, the less you can see of this production, the better.

[Scarywarhol]

Posted: 3/14/18 at 8:45pm

HA.

I know you're being kind of facetious, but I honestly can't wait for a cast album while having absolutely no desire to watch this production ever again.

[Schmuli]

Posted: 3/14/18 at 9:11pm

Jarenthan-
If you are going to disagree, that’s healthy and totally ok...but at least don’t distort/misquote the words used. Who wrote “most loved”? That was you...not me.

The word I used was “favorite” work and the source is Wikipedia. (Whether you consider that source credible or not is up to you). Per Wikipedia: “Richard Rodgers later wrote that Carousel was his FAVORITE of all his musicals.”

Sorry you had the need to aggressively lash out. You remind me of a guy who once had a job working the carousel as a barker.

[poisonivy2]

Posted: 3/14/18 at 9:17pm

Well FWIW Carousel is my mom's favorite musical and mine as well. I think the music is bar none the strongest R&H ever wrote, and it's a difficult show to do but when done well it's a deeply moving experience. 

[Jarethan]

Posted: 3/14/18 at 11:07pm

Schmuli said: "Jarenthan-
If you are going to disagree, that’s healthy and totally ok...but at least don’t distort/misquote the words used. Who wrote “most loved”? That was you...not me.

The word I used was “favorite” work and the source is Wikipedia. (Whether you consider that source credible or not is up to you). Per Wikipedia: “Richard Rodgers later wrote that Carousel was his FAVORITE of all his musicals.”

Sorry you had the need to aggressively lash out. You remind me of a guy who once had a job working the carousel as a barker."

My bad, I misread.  There is a tendency to hyperbole by some posters and I misread your comment.  I actually find it interesting that it was their favorite show, since I have always found it to be intermittently goosebumps or just plain boring, depending on the material presented at the time.  My apologies.

 

[WhizzerMarvin]

Posted: 3/14/18 at 11:27pm

I went back to Carousel tonight and there have been some changes since the first preview, the largest of which being that What’s the Use of Wonderin’ is now sung solely by Julie; Nettie and the female chorus have been completely cut.

The scene before Billy’s death has been shortened. The card game between Billy and Jigger where Billy keeps doubling down on his losses has been cut.

Louise asks her mother if you can be hit and have it not hurt at all, but Julie now stays silent and simply pushes Louise back into the house.

The card game is no great loss, but the staging of the death is still awkward.

Mendez has toned down her performance and as is often the case, less ends up being more.

Performances overall have improved, but they still haven’t coalesced into a unified whole. Mueller has much more chemistry with Mendez than Henry, and therefore Julie and Carrie’s friendship shines brighter in this production than Julie and Billy’s tumultuous romance. Likewise, Henry has stronger chemistry with Ramasar than Mueller and I’d be down for some fan fiction where Billy and Jigger go off on some Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid type adventures.

[Fantod]

Posted: 3/15/18 at 12:08am

Funny I don’t remember that much gay sex in Butch Cassidy

[haterobics]

Posted: 3/15/18 at 12:09am

Fantod said: "Funny I don’t remember that much gay sex in Butch Cassidy"

You should watch it again.

[RippedMan]

Posted: 3/15/18 at 12:12am

Is this normal for a revival? To make so many cuts/ revisions ?

[CurtainPullDowner]

Posted: 3/15/18 at 12:58am

Sometimes, yes. But not usually with a classic like CAROUSEL. It works as it was written very well.

 

[Scarywarhol]

Posted: 3/15/18 at 1:13am

And I would argue that, since Hammerstein knew what he was writing about, cutting it in an attempt to run away from its subject matter make it feel MORE ill-fitted to the moment.

Updated On: 3/15/18 at 01:13 AM

[OlBlueEyes]

Posted: 3/15/18 at 2:23am

Here are some other observations on Carousel over the years. The original show left New York and toured for a number of years. When it re-opened in New York, Brooks Atkinson, who gave the highest praise to Carousel, also had this to say:

Carousel has no comment to make on anything of topical importance. The theme is timeless and universal: the devotion of two people who love each other through thick and thin, complicated in this case by the wayward personality of the man, who cannot fulfill the responsibilities he has assumed.  ... Billy is a bum, but Carousel recognizes the decency of his motives and admires his independence. There are no slick solutions in Carousel.

Frank Rich said of the 1992 Hytner production:

What is remarkable about Mr. Hytner's direction, aside from its unorthodox faith in the virtues of simplicity and stillness, is its ability to make a 1992 audience believe in Hammerstein's vision of redemption, which has it that a dead sinner can return to Earth to do godly good.

Of the same London production critic Michael Billington has commented that "lyrically [Carousel] comes perilously close to acceptance of the inevitability of domestic violence." BroadwayWorld.com stated in 2013 that Carousel is now "considered somewhat controversial in terms of its attitudes on domestic violence" because Julie chooses to stay with Billy despite the abuse.

When the London production eventually wound up at the Vivian Beaumont:

One change made from the London to the New York production was to have Billy strike Louise across the face, rather than on the hand. According to Hayden, "He does the one unpardonable thing, the thing we can't forgive. It's a challenge for the audience to like him after that."

Kelli O'Hara, after performing the role in the Live at Lincoln Center production available on CD, was perhaps not so harsh:

Actress Kelli O'Hara noted that the domestic violence that Julie chooses to deal with – is a real, existing and very complicated thing. And exploring it is an important part of healing it.

I don't have enough knowledge of the various stagings to be at all authoritative, but it seems to me that the Hytner production was harder on Billy, as evidenced by that change of of the blow against Louise changing from the hand to the face.

Live From Lincoln Center is perhaps more forgiving. Jiggs shifts much of the blame on class. Billy wanted to do the right thing and find a job to support his wife and daughter, but was short on marketable skills.

Both Billy and Julie are present at different times when they hear that Billy had beaten Julie. Both protest immediately. He had only hit her once. Kneeling next to Billy as he was dying Julie, although not excusing his action, tells him that she understands why he struck her, because he was prone to angry outbursts and because he was unhappy. I'd be interested to know if that line is in other productions.

In any event, by the end of the death scene we have been shown that the two genuinely care for each other.

[newintown]

Posted: 3/15/18 at 7:52am

"In any event, by the end of the death scene we have been shown that the two genuinely care for each other."

It can easily be argued that many abusive men do "care for" their wives; that doesn't meant that every time they say "I'm sorry," they've reached some sort of ultimate redemption, and are ready to ascend to heaven. In this regard, we see Carousel (and Liliom) as a triumph of cheap sentiment over intelligence.

Edit - actually, Liliom isn't as cheaply sentimental; in that play, Liliom gets no redemption, as the play ends shortly after he slaps his daughter's hand, and he is taken back to purgatory. The last line is Julie's to Louise (Hammerstein didn't change those names): "It is possible, dear—that someone may beat you and beat you and beat you,—and not hurt you at all." Liliom has no happy ending.

Updated On: 3/15/18 at 07:52 AM

[ampi2]

Posted: 3/15/18 at 9:20am

bwayphreak234 said: "ampi2 said: "i'm seeing first row partial view seats for $59 on telecharge, how bad are they??"

Honestly, the less you can see of this production, the better."

HAHAH

[darquegk]

Posted: 3/15/18 at 10:52am

This discussion is making me think back to my high school's 2006 production, and all the off-color parody lyrics we circulated backstage. Some of them you couldn't get away with today ("This Was a Real Nice Gang-Bang", and some are dated ("Stonecutters cut it on stone/emo kids cut it on wrists" in a discussion about which musical genre attracts the most girls- the conclusion of the song revealed that the only foolproof way to woo women was with John Mayer).

But a few of the jokes still land (you have to remember "The Matrix" enough to get "His name is Mr. Smith/and a few hundred men is he", especially the extended "dirty version" of "Blow High, Blow Low" that seemed to accumulate new verses every other day. That wasn't my best work, too much of an easy target; I much preferred "Pump High, Pump Low," the protest version criticizing the director's then-controversial policy that anyone who wanted to be in the show had to either get a personal trainer or enroll in an after-school "weightlifting and physical conditioning" program. But once again, too topical to play today.

[rjm516]

Posted: 3/15/18 at 11:44am

 "His name is Mr. Smith/and a few hundred men is he"

This cracked me up :) We did the same thing backstage, rewriting the lyrics of the current show to be disgusting and topical. Our backstage Pippin was particularly vulgar. 

[denali.fire]

Posted: 3/15/18 at 12:17pm

bwayphreak234 said: "ampi2 said: "i'm seeing first row partial view seats for $59 on telecharge, how bad are they??"

Honestly, the less you can see of this production, the better."

Thanks for this. I shall get the $59 seat.

[OlBlueEyes]

Posted: 3/15/18 at 2:27pm

newintown said: ""In any event, by the end of the death scene we have been shown that the two genuinely care for each other."

It can easily be argued that many abusive men do "care for" their wives; that doesn't meant that every time they say "I'm sorry," they've reached some sort of ultimate redemption, and are ready to ascend to heaven. In this regard, we seeCarousel(andLiliom) as a triumphof cheap sentiment over intelligence.
 

I wasn’t referring to anything Billy said, I was referring to his actions as he lay dying.  Calling for Julie, begging for him to squeeze his hand. If a man was ever to be genuine, that would be the time. But I’m no expert here and your opinion is welcome.

I would think that your response to Brooks Atkinson would be of greater interest.

 

[newintown]

Posted: 3/15/18 at 2:29pm

Bring on a medium, and we can talk to him.

[JPeterman]

Posted: 3/15/18 at 4:50pm

Does anyone know if the stage is high/tall or not? I am going with a friend with visual issues and it would be great to sit up close if the stage is not super high ... thanks