Despite Turnaround, ‘Beetlejuice’ Being Forced Out of Theater- Page 4

[magictodo123]

Posted: 12/10/19 at 8:05am

I understand that people seem to think this is unfair. I do. I'm not pushing those feelings to the side or saying they're irrelevant. But please read this carefully:

"The Shubert Organization notified “Beetlejuice” in June — after the Tony Awards — that it had hit the stop clause. By the time the show rebounded, however, the Winter Garden was already committed to its next tenant: The theater owners had reached an agreement with Rudin that would allow him, more than a year later, to run “The Music Man” there. The Shuberts sent “Beetlejuice” a formal letter on Oct. 1 informing them that they needed to vacate next spring...".

No matter how much money BTJ made, even if they recouped, this had already been set in stone. There were most likely contracts involved, agreements made, the cast most likely has known about this. You can be upset all you want, but saying like, "Eff the music man" is just wasting your energy. I wonder if there's a way to reach out to SOMEONE in a place of power to ask about the show just moving theaters instead of completely closing---a lot can happen between now and June...
 

[Jordan Catalano]

Posted: 12/10/19 at 8:10am

Exactly. A lot can happen in the next 6 months. But as this thread proves, it’s much more fun to cry about something online than to just wait to see what happens.

[Lot666]

Posted: 12/10/19 at 8:15am

Well, damn. Beetlejuice was on my "shows to fill in any empty slots" list in November, and we ended up going with The Sound Inside instead (a decision we ultimately regretted). Now I wish I'd overruled my husband and seen Beetlejuice then.

[magictodo123]

Posted: 12/10/19 at 8:20am

Jordan Catalano said: "Exactly. A lot can happen in the next 6 months. But as this thread proves, it’s much more fun to cry about something online than to just wait to see what happens."

HAHA Jordan I was drinking coffee and practically snorted it out of my nose when I read your comment! It's so true though. Why wait and see when people can get mad and blame everyone ever involved in a theatrical production for Beetlejuice closing hahaha

[Islander_fan]

Posted: 12/10/19 at 9:08am

Jordan Catalano said: "Jesus. Then don’t go see it. If “Beetlejuice” has been selling out every show and doing amazing business back months ago this wouldn’t have happened. But it wasn’t. Broadway is a Billion dollar business - this happens. And they’re not kicking the show out tomorrow. Not this winter Or even this spring but next summer. So if you want to clutch your pearls and rail against a show that you probably weren’t going to see anyway because their prices are so ridiculous then you have fun with that. Be sure to wave at everyone down here while you’re up on that make believe pedestal. "
 

What the hell are you talking about m? What pedestal,where? I am not nor did I ever say (or even feel for that matter) that I am not going to see Music Man due to Beetlejuice closing. What I mentioned was my speculation as to why people were acting the way they were. Personally, the only reason why I’m a little bummed by all this is because this closure does impact me personally due to my job. Sure, once Music  man comes in things will be fine again for me. It’s just the period in between Beetlejuice closing and Music Man coming in that is gonna suck. 
 

I’m not clutching any pearls or getting up on a pedestal or anything of that nature.

[Jordan Catalano]

Posted: 12/10/19 at 9:11am

Updated On: 12/10/19 at 09:11 AM

[Wick3]

Posted: 12/10/19 at 9:25am

Islander_fan said: "Personally, the only reason why I’m a little bummed by all this is because this closure does impact me personally due to my job. Sure, once Music man comes in things will be fine again for me. It’s just the period in between Beetlejuice closing and Music Man coming in that is gonna suck."

Really sorry to hear about your job. I'm guessing you at the Winter Garden. I do think it's unfortunate what happened but the Shuberts are entitled to do that and at the very least they are giving Beetlejuice over 7 months to prepare to leave. I know I'd much rather have 8-9 months notice than 2 weeks notice some shows get for closing.

How does it work on Broadway if a show close? Would the ushers and other people who work at the Winter Garden be eligible to work at other Shubert theaters as a temp?

[V2David]

Posted: 12/10/19 at 9:43am

I love the show. I've seen it twice so far and just bought tix for the final performance. But I am very surprised it has made it this long. Kudos to the cast. They have been all over the place promoting it since the beginning. And word of mouth is really strong with this one. But if you are going to go out, this isn't the worst way to do it. Six months of shows to see. And let's hope they film it! I would love to see it get the Spongebob treatment. As for how it is touring with such an elaborate set, I have no idea. But perhaps it would do well in London? Well, go see the show while you can!

[astorian_ofthe_heart]

Posted: 12/10/19 at 10:06am

Wick3 said: "How does it work on Broadway if a show close? Would the ushers and other people who work at the Winter Gardenbe eligible to work at other Shubert theaters as a temp?"

Yeah, you're still able to work around the different Shubert theaters as a substitute usher. But that far into the summer, there are notably less positions. Unless there's a huge amount of shows opening for Shubert theaters in June and July, most houses will already have their go-to people. I'm a substitute usher now, so I just move from house to house as people need me, but it's really hard to break into a new house when you've been at one for so long. So much easier to just have your reliable house with reliable hours.

[Islander_fan]

Posted: 12/10/19 at 10:44am

Wick3 said: "Islander_fan said: "Personally, the only reason why I’m a little bummed by all this is because this closuredoesimpact me personally due to my job. Sure, once Music man comes in things will be fine again for me. It’s just the period in between Beetlejuice closing and Music Man coming in that is gonna suck."

Really sorry to hear about your job. I'm guessing you at the Winter Garden. I do think it's unfortunate what happened but the Shuberts are entitled to do that and at the very least they are giving Beetlejuice over 7 months to prepare to leave. I know I'd much rather have 8-9months notice than 2 weeks notice some shows get for closing.

How does it work on Broadway if a show close? Would the ushers and other people who work at the Winter Gardenbe eligible to work at other Shubert theaters as a temp?"

I am a sub usher for Shubert. Now, just to elaborate on what was said earlier, I do bounce around from house to house when needed. As a sub, networking and getting in good with the right people is key. Head ushers have their “go to” lists for subs and they call them when needed. And, they can play favorites. So, let’s say that you’re a new sub usher (every usher starts out as a sub) if the head usher at a theatre wants to give a shift to a new person that’s fine. If they would rather have a sub that is reliable and does a good job instead, then it’s their call.

For example, I am on the “go to list” as a sub for a few different theatres. And for me in my position, between  mixing and matching different theatres it’s not hard at all for me to get a full eight show week, or pretty damn close to one. There are also permanent usher who Have their own  theatres that they are at full time. The issue and annoying part for me is that when a show closes, those who are permanent at a given house do sub. However, the way it works is that while the permanent ushers do sub, they get priority over subs like myself.

Also, while it is great to have your own house where you’re there say in day out on a permeated basis, there are always more ushers hired than there are permanent spots a available so it’s a very coveted position.

 

 

[Fosse76]

Posted: 12/10/19 at 11:26am

I think people are being a bit too quick to assign greediness and blame to Rudin and/or the Shuberts. At the beginning of Mockingbird's run, there were rumblings that the show would eventually move to another theater for Rudin's Music Man revival. However, I had heard in September that it had been determined that the Shubert didn't have the size they needed.  Since Beetlejuice had previously met the conditions to enforce the stop clause, and the Winter Garden was the size they needed, they decided to put it there. While a producer can request a specific theater, it's the Shuberts who decide where to put a show. They most likely believe that they will make more money with The Music Man than with Beetlejuice. 

[Wick3]

Posted: 12/10/19 at 11:35am

Thanks islander_fan and astorian_ofthe_heart for your replies! It does seem like the busy period on Broadway tends to be now (late Nov-early Jan) and Tony season (late April-early June) so I can see how slots in the late summer may be hard to get.

[jo]

Posted: 12/10/19 at 11:48am

Fosse76 said: "I think people are being a bit too quick to assign greediness and blame to Rudin and/or the Shuberts. At the beginning of Mockingbird's run, there were rumblings that the show would eventually move to another theater for Rudin's Music Man revival. However, I had heard in September thatit had beendetermined that the Shubert didn't have the size they needed. Since Beetlejuice had previously met the conditions to enforce the stop clause, and the Winter Garden was the size they needed, they decided to put it there. While a producer can request a specific theater, it's the Shuberts who decide where to put a show. Theymost likely believe that they will make more money with The Music Man than with Beetlejuice."

I remember in one of your recent messages that you mentioned Bettlejuice has been evicted from the WG, which has now been substantiated in official reports. 

Someone posted on Instagram a photo of the lab work in September that was done by an ensemble related to Music Man, with Rudin, Carlyle and Sutton in the photo with a fairly large group. Could this lab work reported as month-long have been the basis for the decision on choosing WGarden (and not the Shubert) as what would be a more appropriate stage setting for them? 

https://www.instagram.com/p/B3iTZDuprPo/

Updated On: 12/10/19 at 11:48 AM

[SouthernCakes]

Posted: 12/10/19 at 12:02pm

Sounds like they wanted a bigger physical production than the Shubert can handle?

[fashionguru_23]

Posted: 12/10/19 at 12:16pm

But what I find funny in all of this is that art is imitating life. The movie/story of Beetlejuice is the same thing. People wanting to move in, and the current residents wanting to stay, and scaring them out. It's a perfect marketing scheme!

[WiCkEDrOcKS]

Posted: 12/10/19 at 12:19pm

Threads like this are exactly why I don’t come on here too often anymore.

Lord.

[dwwst12]

Posted: 12/10/19 at 12:37pm

From a legal standpoint, the terms of the stop clause seem quite unfavorable to the tenant. Does it really go into effect immediately after opening? It’d be fairer if it didn’t kick in for a bit, and was then an average of grosses in that stated period. So two sub-800K weeks wouldn’t do it, but a sub-800 average over maybe 6 weeks or whatever would.

Maybe it still would have been triggered here (I don’t remember the subsequent #’s) And owners can’t give a show forever to catch on... but this was hardly forever.

If this is the standard language, I’d think producers could fight for a better deal!

[dramamama611]

Posted: 12/10/19 at 12:56pm

Failing to meet their predetermined threshold for 2 weeks is indeed industry standard.  You don't often realize it's been invoked, and seldom in any high profile way.   LOTS of places miss that mark, but if no one else is barking up that tree, it often goes by the wayside.

So, they've know since JUNE that they would be asked to leave the premises.   That is a year ahead of time (even if they didn't know exactly what their exit date would be.) plenty of time to figure alternatives out - unless they (producing team) thought they'd change their minds as things turned around for the box office.

 

 

[TooTiredForThis]

Posted: 12/10/19 at 1:17pm

Jordan Catalano said: "songanddanceman2 said: "Jordan, it has more to do with the fact that Beetlejuice has since turned things around after a lot of hard work. I and many others presumed that the theatre would change for Music Man due to this.

It's a nasty thing to do in my opinion, I don't care how that sounds. This is getting closed for a celebrity cash grab revival, that's what I think sucks. "

Then If the show continues to break those records and theproducers see good reason to find a new home for it, then that’s what they’ll look into doing (if they’re not already). It’s hardly the first time a show has had to change theaters but it might be the first time it’s happened to a show with an under 14 following who don’t understand business and take everything as a personal affront to them because they “luv BTJ”."

Millennial irreverent nihilist humor certainly plays to older than 14. Also, understanding business, is understanding that in 2019, controversy no longer sells, bad news is no longer better than no news, and Bad PR is bad business, and forcing a popular,  millennial focused show out that's doing well, for a revival produced by the most controversial name currently on Broadway, is a detriment. One thing Music Man had done well was have Rudin's name barely in focus, today he's what's being talked about with it, after a year of horrible PR.

The Music Man could have gone anywhere, into any big house that's normally problematic to launch in. In one step, Shubert and Rudin have alienated a much more powerful entertainment conglomerate, added controversy to a show that till now only had positive hype, and has highlighted a strong age divide in Broadway marketing. It is a bad business move, that will probably not impact the High Jackman run, but will have long term impact on Shubert contacting with major entertainment groups. This was an ego-driven f*ck up.

[Call_me_jorge]

Posted: 12/10/19 at 1:30pm

Oh yes, Warner Brothers is certainly going to take this to heart and will never work with one of Hollywood’s most powerful producers..... smh.

[raddersons]

Posted: 12/10/19 at 1:34pm

I think 80% of this thread can be summed up in: Even though it's allowed, it's still a d*ck move.

[Mike Barrett]

Posted: 12/10/19 at 1:36pm

Lets not forget, and who knows how true this exactly is, but TKAM was not nominated for Best Play last year mainly due to protest of Rudin, since producers are the ones awarded with the "best play" or "best musical" awards. The show garnered nominations in almost every other category.  Awards don't always translate to sales, but to say he doesn't put a stain on his shows due to his business tactics is wrong. I don't like Rudin, and I get what he's done in this situation, but considering there were indeed other houses available it just looks more and more slimy. That doesn't sell as well these days. Sorry for any poster who disagrees with that. It may not hurt him with Hugh and The Music Man but he's playing a very risky game for future sales and business. 

 

Edit: I want to add as well, that I've had another post crticizing the moderators that has been deleted. Mods, please EXPLICITLY explain what rule I broke to have my post deleted. Criticizing you is not against any rule. 

Updated On: 12/10/19 at 01:36 PM

[ModernMillie3]

Posted: 12/10/19 at 1:55pm

They don't have to EXPLICITLY tell you anything. They can do what they want and demanding any kind of answer never works. 

I think 80% of this thread can be summed up in: Even though it's allowed, it's still a d*ck move.

I agree, and I hope they find a new theater so they can have two hits on Broadway instead of just one. Seems like a good business plan to me, fans can be happy and they can buy another house in the Hamptons. Works out for everyone! 

[dramamama611]

Posted: 12/10/19 at 2:08pm

It's KINDA a dick move.  Back in June, when they had the stop clause how could anyone foresee they would have financially pulled this off?  VERY often struggling shows before the Tonys don't make a turn around from not winning at the Tonys.

[Fosse76]

Posted: 12/10/19 at 2:28pm

Mike Barrett said: I don't like Rudin, and I get what he's done in this situation, but considering there were indeed other houses available it just looks more and more slimy. That doesn't sell as well these days. Sorry for any poster who disagrees with that. It may not hurt him with Hugh and The Music Man but he's playing a very risky game for future sales and business."

Again, this was a decision made by the Shubert Organization, not Rudin. Beetlejuice failed to meet its financial obligations under their tenancy agreement and were evicted because there was another show they could put in there. They offered him the Winter Garden, and he took it. It's basic contract law.

Perhaps if West Side Story flops, they can put The Music Man at the Broadway, but that'll only happen if the Shubert Organization believes that Beetlejuice will continue to be profitable for them. At the time they invoked the stop clause, even a short run of The Music Man was likely to be more profitable than Beetlejuice. And the current upswing in ticket sales notwithstanding, the jury is still out if Beetlejuice will continue the trend.