Kander and Ebb’s 3rd best show?

[Jay Lerner-Z]

Posted: 1/18/24 at 8:57pm

There was a question bouncing around social media recently... what is Ridley Scott’s third best movie? The assumption being that Alien and Blade Runner were indisputably his top two.

Inspired by this, I ask you... what is Kander and Ebb’s third best show? Assuming that Cabaret and Chicago win out overall.

Updated On: 1/18/24 at 08:57 PM

[The8re phan]

Posted: 1/18/24 at 9:03pm

no question....... Kiss of the Spider Woman

[dramamama611]

Posted: 1/18/24 at 9:09pm

Scottsboro Boys.   I'm always going to be salty about its untimely demise.  One of my most moving theatrical experiences.

[Broadway61004]

Posted: 1/18/24 at 9:46pm

Honestly, I'd probably put both Scottsboro and Spider Woman ahead of Chicago. I also think the score to The Visit is very underrated.

[RippedMan]

Posted: 1/18/24 at 9:48pm

They’re all so good and can only of production but Scottsboro Boys is just so good. I’d love to see another take on it. 

[Scarywarhol]

Posted: 1/18/24 at 9:52pm

Scottsboro completes a kind of conceptual trilogy with Chicago and Cabaret for me, which always makes it an easy choice for "the third one."

[Jarethan]

Posted: 1/18/24 at 9:59pm

About a dozen years ago I saw a scaled down version of The Happy Time at the Signature Theatre in Virginia that was absolute perfection.  It demonstrated to me that Gower Champion, despite his Tony wins, was the wrong director for the original production, which was incredibly bloated.  Encores should take a look at it if they haven't already done so, because the score is really good and, scaled down, it is a delicate, wonderful experience..

I have a special place in my heart for 70 Girls 70, but I think that Scottsboro Boys would be fourth on my list.  It may have been an off performance when I saw it, but Kiss left me cold.  I could see the talent that went into it...it just didn't move me the way the movie did.  The Visit was also special, but was never going to attract a large audience -- maybe it should have opened off-Broadway. 

They did have quite a few clunkers to me, including The Act, Flora, Steel Pier and The Rink.  I know there are people on this board who think The Rink is underappreciated; to me, it was the one I enjoyed the least, despite the cast.

[blaxx]

Posted: 1/19/24 at 1:09am

Scarywarhol said: "Scottsboro completes a kind of conceptual trilogy with Chicago and Cabaret for me, which always makes it an easy choice for "the third one.""

Their strongest surely were the ones with strong socio-political themes, which are four: Cabaret, Chicago, Kiss and Scottsboro.

[TotallyEffed]

Posted: 1/19/24 at 1:17am

I love The Visit soooo much.

[binau]

Posted: 1/19/24 at 2:36am

TotallyEffed said: "I love The Visit soooo much."

The score and Doyle’s production was magnificent. So sad it didn’t seem to catch on. I hope we will see a revival or concert with Bernadette, Patti, Donna soon. 

[inception]

Posted: 1/19/24 at 4:44am

I only know The Rink from the cast album & came to it 20 years after it opened, but I love the songs more than those in Kiss of the Spiderwoman.

Recently found this video compiling TV reviews & Wow no one really liked it when it premiered.  So many catty bitches.  I want to go back in time and cut their tongues out.  Especially the one who says something like "In my neighborhood we call that a drag."

 

 

[Alex Kulak2]

Posted: 1/19/24 at 9:56am

If I'm being objective, The Scotsboro Boys. If I'm being true to my heart, Curtains.

[ErmengardeStopSniveling]

Posted: 1/19/24 at 10:16am

TotallyEffed said: "I love The Visit soooo much."

I adored The Visit at Williamstown and found Roger Rees & Chita to be electrifying (and Jason Danieley, the big standout of the show). Moody & dark & impeccably staged & designed.

When I saw it again on Broadway, something was clearly wrong with Roger Rees (though we didn't know what that was yet) and I felt his performance resembled nothing of the brilliance we saw at Williamstown. The calibration of the show was off, with Chita and those around her trying to compensate. I don't think I would have loved it if I only saw it on Bway.

I am glad the show made it to Broadway (even if it was just briefly) and that it got some Tony nominations, I'm sad that we lost Roger at such a young age (he'd be turning 80 this year), and I'm happy that Chita got to play this part on Broadway.

Updated On: 1/19/24 at 10:16 AM

[Jarethan]

Posted: 1/19/24 at 11:25am

inception said: "I only know The Rink from the cast album & came to it 20 years after it opened, but I love the songs more than those in Kiss of the Spiderwoman.

Recently found this video compiling TV reviews & Wow no one really liked it when it premiered. So many catty bitches. I want to go back in time and cut their tongues out. Especially the one who says something like "In my neighborhood we call that a drag."

The problem is that that was exactly what it was to me.  

 

"

 

[Bill Snibson]

Posted: 1/19/24 at 12:46pm

I miss the days of Broadway openings making the nightly news...that being said Dennis Cunningham on CBS was always sooo damn mean!

[Jay Lerner-Z]

Posted: 1/19/24 at 1:52pm

I love the Scottsboro Boys cast recordings. It definitely deserved a better reception on Broadway. At least it got a second life in London.

That would probably be my own answer to this question, but it’s harder to know for sure without having seen a production.

Updated On: 1/19/24 at 01:52 PM

[muscle23ftl]

Posted: 1/19/24 at 2:47pm

Sorry, but the right title should be "which was the 3rd most successful show of Kander and Ebb", not the best. Quality doesn't always equal box office success. 

I think Kiss of the Spider Woman is their #1. I haven't seen all of their shows, but out of what I've seen, I'd say #2 is Zorba and #3 is Chicago. I have only seen Scottsboro Boys, The Visit, Curtains and Cabaret besides the one I mentioned.

I think the movies of Chicago and Cabaret were amazing. But the live version of Cabaret I saw at Studio 54 wasn't as effective. I feel I'd have loved The Rink and The Woman of the Year.

I thought Scottsboro and Curtains were absolutely dreadful.

[Jay Lerner-Z]

Posted: 1/19/24 at 2:56pm

I was only asking for subjective opinions, not hard box office data. There is no wrong answer to this question, it is just a fun excuse to talk about shows I love.

What was dreadful about Scottsboro Boys?

[Jarethan]

Posted: 1/19/24 at 3:13pm

muscle23ftl said: "Sorry, but the right title should be "which was the 3rd most successful show of Kander and Ebb", not the best. Quality doesn't always equal box office success.

I think Kiss of the Spider Woman is their #1. I haven't seen all of their shows, but out of what I've seen, I'd say #2 is Zorba and #3 is Chicago. I have only seen Scottsboro Boys, The Visit, Curtains and Cabaret besides the one I mentioned.

I think the movies of Chicago and Cabaret were amazing. But the live version of Cabaret I saw at Studio 54 wasn't as effective. I feel I'd have loved The Rink and The Woman of the Year.

I thought Scottsboro and Curtains were absolutely dreadful."

I forgot they did Woman of the Year.  It really was a mediocre show.  The score was better than the show, and it’s Tier 2 or 3 K&E.  That said, if you thought Scottaboro was dreadful, we probably do t have the same taste.  I think Cabaret is their masterpiece.

[Jay Lerner-Z]

Posted: 1/19/24 at 3:19pm

Does Funny Lady deserve a mention?

 

[dan94]

Posted: 1/19/24 at 3:35pm

ErmengardeStopSniveling said: "TotallyEffed said: "I love The Visit soooo much."

I adored The Visit at Williamstown and found Roger Rees & Chita to be electrifying (and Jason Danieley, the big standout of the show). Moody & dark & impeccably staged & designed.

When I saw it again on Broadway, something was clearly wrong with Roger Rees (though we didn't know what that was yet) and I felt his performance resembled nothing of the brilliance we saw at Williamstown. The calibration of the show was off, with Chita and those around her trying to compensate. I don't think I would have loved it if I only saw it on Bway.

I am glad the show made it to Broadway (even if it was just briefly), that it got some Tony nominations, and that we got one last big leading performance from Chita."

I saw The Visit when Tom Nelis took over for Roger Rees and very much echo your statements about it at Williamstown. I would actually put it in line for third, it's certainly one of Kander's strongest scores. And I think they found a heart to the piece that I don't find as present in the original play.

Whether the shows completely work or not (I saw Woman of the Year last year and didn't find it particularly inspired), I've always found something worthwhile in every Kander and Ebb musical. I do hope John Kander has left instructions for what he would like to see done with their Skin of Our Teeth musical. The play will eventually enter the public domain and I'd love to see what they did with it.

[inception]

Posted: 1/19/24 at 3:38pm

Jay Lerner-Z said: "Does Funny Lady deserve a mention?

​It is hard to judge since quite a few of the songs are classic numbers written by Billy Rose, Yip Harburg, Harold Arlen etc

And  if you are going to consider Funny Lady then why not look at the film score to New York, New York as well?

The two break out songs from that film ( NY, NY & The World Goes Round) might be judged better than Kander & Ebb's contributions to Funny Lady.

 

Updated On: 1/19/24 at 03:38 PM

[Jarethan]

Posted: 1/19/24 at 3:54pm

Funny Lady was such a bad movie that I can’t even remember any of the K&E songs.  Were there any that ‘survived’ the movie?

[George in DC]

Posted: 1/19/24 at 4:17pm

"How Lucky Can You Get"

[Jay Lerner-Z]

Posted: 1/19/24 at 4:30pm

I draw a complete blank on Funny Lady too, but I’m coming up to that chapter in Barbra’s memoir so maybe I will pay it a visit soon. I know it was just a contractual obligation for her, signed before she had even made the Funny Girl movie. Maybe nobody’s heart was really in it, K & E’s included.

Theme from New York, New York definitely survived its source movie as I’m sure we all know. I realize it has just been used in its own show recently, but if there is ever a stage musical based on the life and career of Liza Minnelli it would have to be included. Think of it... “Liza with a Z”, now playing. If all of the other wonderful songs that Kander and Ebb wrote for her were included, I think it could be a contender for 3rd best.