Posted: 4/15/21 at 12:54pm
This thread is getting to be a bit much.. but I get it. Anyway, good for Olivo. She's setting an example and will be remembered for it. However, the headline they wanted this story to be has not been respected by the OP and I would like to offer the suggestion of changing/updating it to reflect Olivo's wishes.
Posted: 4/15/21 at 12:55pm
Yes, I can totally blame you. Theatre not being around isn't an excuse in this case.
Posted: 4/15/21 at 2:00pm
LizzieCurry said: "Yes, I can totally blame you. Theatre not being around isn't an excuse in this case."
Uh oh, are we gonna have to cancel raddersons?
Posted: 4/15/21 at 2:22pm
ctorres23 said: "LizzieCurry said: "Yes, I can totally blame you. Theatre not being around isn't an excuse in this case."
Uh oh, are we gonna have to cancelraddersons?"
Glass houses...
Posted: 4/15/21 at 2:25pm
I think the fact that this thread has blown up like this is mostly because after a year of nothing, we finally have something to talk about lol.
And yes, the reactions here - from both sides - are getting out of hand. Now people are bringing race into it? I can't even read any more of this stuff.
Posted: 4/15/21 at 2:36pm
(race is often already more a part of a situation than many [white] people realize and doesn't need to be "brought into" anything)
Posted: 4/15/21 at 2:53pm
@Baritone Enlighten us as to how one can erase "race" from a discussion of social justice???
Some of the statements I read on this board are truly mind-boggling.
Posted: 4/15/21 at 3:30pm
related to... a lot of things https://twitter.com/aneeshshethacts/status/1382725225150869508
Posted: 4/15/21 at 4:00pm
HogansHero said: "@Baritone Enlighten us as to how one can erase "race" from a discussion ofsocial justice???
Some of the statements I read on this board are truly mind-boggling."
You have a point. I guess what I mean is...yes, IN GENERAL, Latinx women are marginalized (both my wife and daughter are Latina, so I do have a personal investment in this issue). But Karen Olivo, at least professionally, is about as privileged as a stage actor can be. If she wasn’t so privileged, her quitting a show to stay with her (probably pretty high-paying) job as a theatre professor at a major university wouldn’t seem like such a false sacrifice to me.
Okay, for real this time...I’m done with this thread.
Posted: 4/15/21 at 4:22pm
I'll try to respond in a way that does not draw you back in. 
I think privilege in the theatre is a worthy subject. There are a lot of people in this business who were able to sustain their careers because of privilege {ironically, perhaps, not Scott Rudin lol} and that unquestionably colors at least some aspects of the theatre we make, the jobs people can take, etc. I don't think privilege and a first-hand exposure to the social justice crisis, as an example, are mutually exclusive however (and we see examples of this every day). I think there are a regrettable number of people in this tread who have been attempting to marginalize KO and I think (as others have said) there is a good deal of stuff in this thread that reflects the broader evils of systemic racism. End of discussion. I hope I didn't tempt you back in.
Posted: 4/15/21 at 4:37pm
Could you give some context for this? Also, do you know if the video will stay up?
This thread is such a mess I don't know where to begin. I support Karen in her stance and her action.
Posted: 4/15/21 at 4:40pm
Interesting to hear people trying to downplay the magnitude of her sacrifice by pointing out her privilege and alternate means of income, as if Olivo ever denied that. She might not have said it outright, but when she says things like "Building a better industry for my students is more important than me putting money in my pockets" - that to me, reads like saying "I have other sources of income, so I don't need to participate in this, so I won't anymore." It sounds to me like she is fully conscious of the fact that she's privileged, and she's exercising her privilege in order to make change - not to directly tear down Scott Rudi (because she isn't capable of that, and she knows it), but to make a public statement about the industry, and focus on teaching her values to the next generation of artists. She saw an opportunity to use her privilege in whatever way she could, and she chose that path. That's exactly what people with privilege should be doing in their activism work.
And it has already partially worked. It already seems like her exiting the show has gotten more media coverage than the initial Rudin story got on its own.
Posted: 4/15/21 at 5:11pm
As far as I know, that video will stay up — all the other ones have.
I believe both Espinosa and Olivo were booked for this before Olivo made their statement.
Posted: 4/15/21 at 5:22pm
Posted: 4/15/21 at 6:12pm
VintageSnarker said: "LizzieCurry said: "Watch this space (and this video, tonight, at 6:30 eastern):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nj5K3O8a4LU&ab_channel=DavonWilliams"
Could you give some context for this? Also, do you know if the video will stay up?
This thread is such a mess I don't know where to begin. I support Karen in her stance and her action."
This is what I was talking about. There's been a lot of talk about how Equity has been shady lately, and how the Nederlanders/Shuberts have their own shadow companies that production Non-Union tours, and how they haven't been sharing if the tours have recouped, etc.
Posted: 4/15/21 at 9:03pm
LizzieCurry said: "(race is often already more a part of a situation than many [white] people realize and doesn't need to be "brought into" anything)"
i kinda agree with this in theory but is there any allegation of Rudin acting in a way that targets POC? Like Lea Michele, he strikes me as a total prick, which is not the same as being a racist prick. So while I applaud effort to run such types out of any industry, i struggle to see the racial component here. Karen Olivo is a person of color who has been phenomenally successful, and I know of no allegation against Rudin that inject race into it.
I know, i know, just asking this question will cause the usual suspects to call me a racist (which i always enjoy, when those accusers dont know my own racial background) but i genuinely dont see a racial angle to the Rudin saga- and im happy to be corrected.
Posted: 4/15/21 at 9:18pm
well, he had a racism related email controversy a few years ago (Obama was president) but he apologized and it seemed to have gone away. I am a little surprised no one has mentioned it recently. It was in his Hollywood mode not Broadway.
Posted: 4/15/21 at 9:23pm
HogansHero said: "well, he had a racism related email controversy a few years ago (Obama was president) but he apologized and it seemed to have gone away. I am a little surprised no one has mentioned it recently. It was in his Hollywood mode not Broadway."
totally didnt know that. fair point.
Posted: 4/15/21 at 11:08pm
JDonaghy4 said: "HogansHero said: "well, he had a racism related email controversy a few years ago (Obama was president) but he apologized and it seemed to have gone away. I am a little surprised no one has mentioned it recently. It was in his Hollywood mode not Broadway."
totally didnt know that. fair point."
Jeremy O Harris has also called him racist in public forums for harassing him about his work.
Posted: 4/16/21 at 2:32am
HogansHero said: "ctorres23 said: "LizzieCurry said: "Yes, I can totally blame you. Theatre not being around isn't an excuse in this case."
Uh oh, are we gonna have to cancelraddersons?"
Glass houses..."
God I miss Glass House.
Posted: 4/16/21 at 10:15am
Perhaps KO was fence-sitting about returning after a year, especially if she has been involved in other work, and "Mr Rude's" behavior was the catalyst she needed.
Either way, I hope she does more for the workers than Ervio did after her harangue about Great Comet.
Updated On: 4/16/21 at 10:15 AM
Posted: 4/16/21 at 11:23am
Zion24, you can see more here:
https://deadline.com/2014/12/scott-rudin-apology-sony-hacking-barack-obama-1201320321/
Posted: 4/16/21 at 11:53am
Posted: 4/16/21 at 12:42pm
This is off-topic but on my mind as both this and the JLP thread are popping right now. Is Karen Olivo non-binary? They have "they" listed as their pronoun, and I've seen it used all over the place when they refer to them (the last "they" in this sentence references the collective authors using the pronoun, not Olivo)
Can someone clarify this? Like if an article referred to "non-binary actor Karen Olivo" would that be accurate?
Posted: 4/16/21 at 12:46pm
LizzieCurry said: "Zion24, you can see more here:
https://deadline.com/2014/12/scott-rudin-apology-sony-hacking-barack-obama-1201320321/"
thanks. i regret that it may seem as if i am ambivalent at all about rudin. i believe every story, and in my own dealings with his orbit, it all rings super true. i applaud industries running people like him out of town.
