Last Five Years: Whose Fault?

[The Distinctive Baritone]

Posted: 10/3/05 at 12:05am

Yes, I know this was discussed a while ago, but I thought I'd bring it up again because I recently changed my opinion. I used to think that the fault of the breakup was equal on both sides, but having listed to the recording again the other day I now have to say that it really was Jamie's fault. As a guy, I can certainly relate to some of his problems, but still, he's was a selfish prick. The marriage failed because he was too self-absorbed.

Anyone?

EDIT: There, I changed my spelling of the subject heading! And I have an English degree...that's kinda sad.
Updated On: 10/3/05 at 12:05 AM

[meagan9848]

Posted: 10/3/05 at 12:09am

Jamie Jamie Jamie.

[timote316]

Posted: 10/3/05 at 12:10am

However, at the same time, Kathy's jealousy and demanding nature drove Jaime to do many things.

I think the beauty of the show is that the relationship is so flawed. Another wonderful aspect of the show is that it sparks this discussion all the time.

[meagan9848]

Posted: 10/3/05 at 12:12am

I miss this show so much.

[The Distinctive Baritone]

Posted: 10/3/05 at 12:13am

Well, Cathy had a reason to be jealous. He WAS cheating on her!

[munkustrap178]

Posted: 10/3/05 at 12:15am

Jamie, hands down.

Everytime i'm going through a hard time with a relationship I resort to this CD - and Jamie IS every guy i've ever broken up with.

[leap_of_moo]

Posted: 10/3/05 at 12:17am

Jamie.

[Rose_MacShane]

Posted: 10/3/05 at 12:21am

I've thought about it, and I agree that more blame should be placed on Jamie. It's true that Cathy had more reservations in the beginning (and they were based on pride and independence issues), but after they got married Jamie's problems emerged shortly thereafter, and they were about fidelity and, I think, plain selfishness. For me, infidelity is an unforgiveable offense.
It always gets me in "See I'm Smiling" when Cathy says "You could be with your wife on her f***ing birthday and you could, God forbid, even see my show," and he has the temerity to call her selfish for not coming with him to a publishing party. I think that pretty well sums it all up.

[Dre2387]

Posted: 10/3/05 at 12:22am

Jamie all the way. because, listening to the cast recording, I hear nothing of Cathy complaining or being jealous at the beginning of their marriage. yes, she did call him, but I think Jamie was over-exaggerating when he was talking to her on the phone.

anyone agree?

[Dirty Rotten Scoundrel]

Posted: 10/3/05 at 12:24am

Jamie. As much as I looove Norbert's singing the songs and such, it's his fault. At first I thought it was Cathy. She bothered me and just got under my skin. But then I got addicted to this CD and now I have to say that it's Jamie.

[dididda]

Posted: 10/3/05 at 12:28am

why does it have to be anyones fault?

[Link Larkin Wanabe]

Posted: 10/3/05 at 12:28am

I find that this is the one weakness with this musical. I think because it is so autobiographical, JRB wanted to make sure he didn't just pass on the blame, but in doing so made Jamie slightly TOO much to blame. I feel if Cathy was just slightly more responsible it would make the piece more balanced and dramatic.

Akiva

[The Distinctive Baritone]

Posted: 10/3/05 at 12:40am

I agree--although TL5Y is one of my favorite musicals, it could be even better if Cathy was less of a victim and was partly to blame herself.

[zzannahk]

Posted: 10/3/05 at 12:43am

i think she is partly to blame, neither of them actively participate in their relationship, but having Jamie cheat takes it to a whole different level, and makes it more real

lets face it, someone is always more to blame

Updated On: 10/3/05 at 12:43 AM

[andyf]

Posted: 10/3/05 at 12:45am

I always said Jamie, but while falling in love with Norbs-via-Jamie just now I felt bad for him. Cathy's kind of a crazy b*tch and, when we did this the last time, someone mentioned how "I Could Never Rescue You" (and even "If I Didn't Believe In You") is about how Jamie tried to be whatever it is Cathy wanted him to be, but she could never be happy and she kind of ends up leaving him to seek fulfillment elsewhere and through other means...


And, re: "Why does it have to be anyone's fault?"....uhhhhhhhh, it's America?

It's kind of our thing.

Updated On: 10/3/05 at 12:45 AM

[BSoBW2]

Posted: 10/3/05 at 1:12am

I feel like "who's" isn't right...

[Rentaholic2]

Posted: 10/3/05 at 2:07am

you mean whose?

What is I Could Never Rescue You?? Back in my downloading days (blushes), I downloaded this entire CD and put it in order...did I miss this song or does it go by another name also?

[andyf]

Posted: 10/3/05 at 2:22am

The last song is called "Goodbye Until Tomorrow/I Could Never Rescue You."

"Goodbye Until Tomorrow" is Cathy's song, "I Could Never Rescue You" is Jamie's.

[CurtainPullDowner]

Posted: 10/3/05 at 2:36am

it was the Director's fault
duh
what a great confusing musical
Theatre piece
sharing blame
is the hardest Thing

[apdarcey]

Posted: 10/3/05 at 2:56am

well this question always seems to come up, huh?

i mean, personally i think more blame is placed on jamie lyrically, but the points stated are completely valid about cathy sort of driving him to do these things. she could never be rescued, even with the perfect man. there is definitely some blame on both. it just depends on your own personal scales of justice.

[DayDreamer]

Posted: 10/3/05 at 3:36am

Interesting topic. I've just seen a local production 4 times - yeah, I love the show, and they had 3 different casts. And I went to see my favorite cast twice.

Anyway, I digress. In the show there's added dialogue that's very telling. I think the problem with them is that they don't communicate. I think in past the issue is that Jamie becomes successful, and Cathy doesn't quite deal with it well. There's one scene where Jamie's in his agent's office with great news, and she's mad that he's not home. But he just agrees to go home...

I am not saying that cheating is ok at all, but in a way I feel that she pushed him away.

[SirLiir]

Posted: 10/3/05 at 4:12am

Its such a great musical because I find them equally to blame. Jamie and Cathy are both flawed people. Jamie was too young and too caught up in his career to dedicate himself to Cathy. Cathy was determnined to be someone great. Both were ambitious and most likely loved that about each other. But the cracks developed. Jame cheated and thats his biggest fault. But if you listen to the song "No one needs to know', you learn why. Cathy never allowed him a private space in his heart. Throughout the whole play, its obvious Cathy could not deal with his success and her failure. By the time he went to Ohio, his love for her was gone. It was just a battle for him he could not win. Cathy just did not realize it.
Now for an interesting perspective, I, like Jamie, am a writer and I know what its like to be young and first experiencing publication. Now, my first endeavors are nowhere as successful as Jamie is (yet ^^), but still its an incredible rush of self confidence and joy when you see your book in print. I certainly felt like Jamie did. Now Cathy just never was comfortable with it. Believe me, when I write I need quiet time to be introspective. Cathy was very clear that she did not care for it. She simply could not understand his world. She was too busy trying to make it in show business that she could not stand to bask in the 'genius' heels' while she was rejected time and time again. His path to adultery was helped by Cathy being cold and unsupportive to his writings. BUT Jamie did not help his case by being critical of her , ESPECIALLY after the Incredibly-Long-Song-to-Prove-A-Point-About-Time (ie the Schmuel Song) where he promised to giver her unlimited time. His sudden temptation for other girls was another sign of his character's weakness. But as the play neared its finale, for Jamie, there was nothing between them anymore and so..he turned to his book editor (ewww). I am glad they did not get together again in the end because it wqould have ruined the play. Like real life, people fall in and out of love with each other and this play, musically and structurely, captured it well. Now I just need to see it without Norbert to be completely unbiased ><

[~FloweryFriend~]

Posted: 10/3/05 at 10:11am

I think the whole point of The Last Five Years is to show that it's nobody's fault. Their relationship had 'this will self-destruct' written all over it from the beginning. Jamie was rebelling and wanted to find someone who was against what he was supposed to look for. Cathy wanted to have a perfect relationship come into her life, fully-formed. He wrote a story about her and became the very thing he warned about (#3): "some people can't find success with their art/some people never feel love in their heart/some people can't tell the two things apart". He thinks he loves her, but he's not marrying her for the right reasons. He knows that things are moving too fast, but he's very impulsive, so he goes with it. Cathy is a romantic, so she never questions anything. She thinks that she's ready for this, but she's not. Her feelings of jealousy are awakened before they ever get married.

Part of what's so great about this musical is that there are no clear answers.

My friend Annie said that the first time she heard it, she spent the entire first act thinking that Cathy was needy and suffocating Jamie, and that the breakup was her fault, and then spent the second act thinking that Jamie was causing her to be paranoid and his cheating drove her to these extremes. I, on the other hand, the first time I heard it I spent the whole first act blaming Jamie, as it seemed he left Cathy with very little warning and she had become such a broken person due to how much she had invested in the relationship, and the second act I blamed Cathy, as I saw how she had driven him away from her.

Now I know better than that. It's not about the blame. It was nobody's fault. It just wasn't meant to be, and it took them 5 years to figure that out.

[The Distinctive Baritone]

Posted: 10/3/05 at 10:14am

m'kay.

[mirramar]

Posted: 10/3/05 at 12:39pm

I just saw TL5Y and have been thinking about this constantly!
It was definitely a communication problem. If they'd taken the time to sit down and discuss their fears WITH EACH OTHER, they could've avoided so many of the problems that they ran into. She was so afraid of becoming one of those women that didn't see infidelity when it was right in front of their noses, that she immediately put up barriers to prevent herself from getting hurt. I believe that she drove him to cheat. She didn't trust him, and he cheated on her out of anger.

They both needed to make compromises, and neither was willing to make the effort.

As they say, "It takes two to tango."