Mrs. Doubtfire is gonna get protested — Page 4

Learn to pick your battles. When you don't you'll burn out.

MRS. DOUBTFIRE is not the big fish you think it is.

That is all.

ArtMan said: "hearthemsing22 said: "Sutton Ross said: "Musical comedies are delightful. I love them so much. The full house at Tootsie had a great time when I saw it, laughter and full applause. It was considered a flop of course and maybe this will be too, but let people enjoy what they enjoy and resist the urge to assume something will happen and sh*t all over it. Thank you. "

That’s how I felt about Gettin’ The Band Back Together! Musical comedy, the audience clearly enjoyed it, but definitely flopped. I enjoyed it both times I saw it :)"

I really enjoyed Gettin' The Band Back Together also. Thought it was alot of fun. My only regret was the lead was out when I saw it."

It was so FUN! Not every show has to be deep and serious. :) Aw I’m sorry! I hope you enjoyed the show anyway?

I'm back here to say, I know it was clickbaity of me to start this thread but people like JBroadway have really opened the discussion up to explore my initial point that was never a troll post, just very hastily written, and I'm really relieved.

So to everyone who's actually having the conversation here that's awesome. To the people who keep dumping vitriol. Yikes.

JBroadway said: "As I stated en my earlier post, I'm not convinced either way that Doubtfire is transphobic or not, because I think it depends on how its done, and I haven't seen it.

But people using "it's not as bad as trans people getting murdered" or "it's not openly anti-trans" as excuses - yikes.This "just be thankful it isn't worse" line of logic is atextbook form of manipulative gaslighting. Things can still be problematic and not be murder. Things can cause harm and not be murder. This kind of deflectivelogic has been used throughout history to get marginalized groups to stop fighting for fair treatment.

No,trans people were not murdered specifically because of Tootsie in particular. But trans women in real life are degraded and traumatized by being seen as a "man in a dress" punchline. And trans women in real life are degraded and yes,even murdered, because people see them as men who pose a risk of "invading" womens' spaces. And these ideas can be re-enforced by mainstream media. Even media that does not appear to be "anti-trans" on the surface. Are these individual pieces of media at fault for these women's murders? Should we put the burden of murder on these artists? No. But that's not an excuse to just indiscriminately ignore the big picture of how these things can accumulate into real-life harm.

EDIT - and once again, to make things absolutely clear: I am not trying to tell anyone on this board that they aren't ALLOWED to say these things.I'm expressing the reasons why I personally believe that comments like this are harmful and disrespectful. You are allowed to say these things, and I am allowed to respond."

I think this is really well stated. I've had issues with the whole "is it transphobic?" line of questioning going back to when Laverne Cox talked about "problematic" aspects of Dr. Frank-N-Furter, and it's easy for me to roll my eyes at the whole thing. But these questions originate in the experience of people who are extremely marginalized and all-too-frequently/easily dismissed and ridiculed. Which is quite a painful way to live.

I think you do a nice job of leaving it up to people to decide for themselves what is offensive while still pointing out the pain that people can experience through callous or clumsy approaches, and reminding us that it isn't only under the most extreme forms of suffering that it becomes valid to recognize the pain of others.

Jordan Catalano said: "hearthemsing22 said: "…you’re kidding right?? The whole premise is him lying to his family about who he is!! He’s lying to them from the very beginning when he first decides to become Mrs. Doubtfire."

Gotcha. So…no stories are allowed to be told anymore where people lie. I’ll add that to the list of what makes Tik Tok aNgRy.

Guess we can’t stage Hamlet anymore either? He’s a guy who PRETENDS to be crazy - which of course is an insult to anyone who REALLY struggles with emotional issues!

Guess we can’t stage Hamlet anymore either? He’s a guy who PRETENDS to be crazy - which of course is an insult to anyone who REALLY struggles with emotional issues!"

Hamlet's state of madness or pretending to be mad is a reflection of the era his story is from. It's not insulting cause we are already aware this is a Shakespearian piece from a time of no knowledge of the intricacy of mental illness. The same way we can handle watching Romeo and Juliet die cause they lived in an era without cell phones.

Troll with more intelligence please

"I do love the classic 90s film cause Robin's performance but is has a sizable amount of transphobia in it. We're just truly in a different era and "straight men crossdressing to get away with something" is increasingly feeling yikesy. And yes before people sound off on me about "how it's actually a heartfelt story about divorce and a guy who wants to be with his kids" Yes all this I know- I am someone who loved the movie. But ya gotta ask yourself, are you a cis person defending it when you're not on the receiving end of transphobia? Some things just stop holding up as time goes on no matter how you defend intention"

a quote from my OP. Please tell me where I'll lacking "intellectual rigor" debating that cis people shouldn't necessarily defend it when they are not on the receiving end of transphobia?

rattleNwoolypenguin said: "a quote from my OP. Please tell me where I'll lacking "intellectual rigor" debating that cis people shouldn't necessarily defend it when they are not on the receiving end of transphobia?"

At the time, no one was defending a show most of us hadn't seen. Were we supposed to agree the show shouldn't reopen based on anecdotal evidence of people you know? Something "increasingly feeling yikesy" is not really an argument that we should stage a protest. Or did you just mean a twitter protest?

If the show properly opens and people have complaints, I will listen.

I do think this kind of story is different from shows like Rocky Horror and Hedwig that engage with gender identity. Are we also going to cancel Victor/Victoria and Yentl and Twelfth Night?

rattleNwoolypenguin said: "I'm glad you think I get what I deserve for calling attention to an actual necessary issue..."

What you did was the equivalent of throwing a match in a dumpster and what you are trying to do now is taking credit for the fire department showing up to put out your fire.

And there are posts across 4 pages highlighting that your OP threw some troll-like phrases onto this board without having any foundation for your assertions. Hence the lack of intellectual rigor in your posts.

rattleNwoolypenguin said: "Guess we can’t stage Hamlet anymore either? He’s a guy who PRETENDS to be crazy - which of course is an insult to anyone who REALLY struggles with emotional issues!"

Hamlet's state of madness or pretending to be mad is a reflection of the era his story is from. It's not insulting cause we are already aware this is a Shakespearian piece from a time of no knowledge of the intricacy of mental illness. The same way we can handle watching Romeo and Juliet die cause they lived in an era without cell phones.

CRAP! Yes, Hamlet and Romeo and Juliet were written centuries ago, but they are performed for today's audiences. Some people say Romeo and Juliet is about teen suicide. There are teens with cell phones who die. The long and the short of it, you are an attention whore!

Only women (trans or cis) should be allowed to dress in women's clothing? And only men (trans or cis) should be allowed to dress in men's clothing? Otherwise, it is an affront to the trans community? And the trans community wants to be the ultimate decider of what constitutes men's or women's attire and when it is not acceptable? Questions, questions.

rattleNwoolypenguin said: "Guess we can’t stage Hamlet anymore either? He’s a guy who PRETENDS to be crazy - which of course is an insult to anyone who REALLY struggles with emotional issues!"

Hamlet's state of madness or pretending to be mad is a reflection of the era his story is from. It's not insulting cause we are already aware this is a Shakespearian piece from a time of no knowledge of the intricacy of mental illness. The same way we can handle watching Romeo and Juliet die cause they lived in an era without cell phones.

Troll with more intelligence please"

Or not at all :) It’s easy to block people if you can’t be kind to them

You've confused "disguised" with "transgendered". And FTR, neither should Robin Williams' character be confused as being "in drag".

joevitus is one who acknowledged the difference when he wrote, "Further, while I guess if a man really snuck into his children's home in disguise to live under another identity, it would be all kinds of intrusive/abusive/disturbing, this isn't life, it's comedy." It's a pedantic point (on my part), but Williams' character didn't sneak into the children's home, though. The intention of joevitus' larger point is more valuable.

I find it very disappointing and saddening that you would create and defend this negatively framed thread based on that lack of understanding. I don't wish you to add insult to injury by asking for any clarification, but the phrase, "actual necessary issue" has little meaning, if any.

RE: "are you a cis person defending it when you're not on the receiving end of transphobia": You haven't clarified what the pronoun 'it' references (the entire movie? Some specific action, or idea contained within the plot?), so your context is lost. As for "transphobia", there is/are no example(s) I can find in the movie. This isn't a move that's about, or references any members of the transgendered community. Because that's true, it makes absolutely no difference whether/not I have been on the "receiving end of transphobia". It also makes no difference whether/not I am cis-gendered.

It's my opinion that you're bandwagoning (jumping on the "I support the transgendered community" train) without having sufficient knowledge of the community's issues, or who they really are.