"No More 10 out of 12"

[everythingtaboo]

Posted: 10/13/21 at 11:29am

I've seen this on Eden Espinosa and a few other social media this morning, does anyone know anything about this particular movement? I've also seen back and forth between some actors that are fine with it, and stage managers and creatives who aren't.

[jacobsnchz14]

Posted: 10/13/21 at 12:19pm

I first saw this on Lynn Nottage's Twitter and was not sure whether it stemmed from that or someone prior. There's also some talk on social about 9- or 10-performance holiday weeks?

[QueenAlice]

Posted: 10/13/21 at 12:35pm

Is the argument that there should be less performances per week or that the 8 performance week schedule should be consolidated to 6 days with 2 days off?  Reducing the number of shows a week doesn't seem realistic.

[RippedMan]

Posted: 10/13/21 at 12:42pm

10 out of 12 refers to the tech period of a show where you're working for 10 hours out of the 12. Usually, in my experience, you aren't "working" for the whole 10 hours. It's a lot of standing while they adjust the lights to you, program the set, etc. But it is tiring and long hours, and I'm sure on a new musical it's very exhausting to then have to get up and do a show full out the next day or however it works. 

Reducing the shows won't work because people want profit, but consolidating it down could work, just means 3 more longer 2 show days. But having an actual weekend would be a great break. Just have Broadway dark Monday/Tuesday. 

[Tag]

Posted: 10/13/21 at 12:56pm

RippedMan said: "Usually, in my experience, you aren't "working" for the whole 10 hours. It's a lot of standing while they adjust the lights to you, program the set, etc."

You know the people adjusting levels and programming, are working...

[JBroadway]

Posted: 10/13/21 at 1:07pm

^i was just going to say the same. That comment was actor-centric, but this movement is for the crew and creative team employees as well. And they’re working that whole time.

[ErmengardeStopSniveling]

Posted: 10/13/21 at 1:16pm

My assumption is that the six-day work week is only in reference to rehearsals, not performances...right?

I wonder if there is a world in which the League and other unions agree to two contracts: a 7-performance week and an 8-performance week for the people on the Production (not House) payroll? Lots of issues that would need to be hammered out, obviously, but many shows could benefit from only having 7 perfs per week (plays especially).

These petitions and threats for striking (such as the Casting Directors "strike" a few years back) are made with Broadway's biggest shows in mind. But I fear that changing things too drastically could make smaller, riskier works unproduceable. The shows that come to Broadway destined to fail financially might just fold even quicker, or not open at all. I wish there could be more of a sliding scale for shows earning X% more than their weekly nut post-recoupment.

Updated On: 10/13/21 at 01:16 PM

[Impeach2017]

Posted: 10/13/21 at 1:20pm

Broadway is in survival mode, in case nobody noticed.  

[thedrybandit]

Posted: 10/13/21 at 1:22pm

JBroadway said: "^i was just going to say the same. That comment was actor-centric, but this movement is for the crew and creative team employees as well. And they’re working that whole time."

And adding to that, Creative Team is usually pulling 14 hour days, and Crew are pulling 16 hour days, even if it's a 12 hour day for the cast. It's exhausting work for everyone.

[Tsao5]

Posted: 10/13/21 at 1:40pm

Some actors are behaving so, for lack of better word, "precious".  10 out of 12 is for the tech and crew and creatives. It is their, basically, only time to have the actors onstage in this short amount of time to go cue to cue to make the SHOW and THEM look good. And it is only 1 to 3 days at most. Sheesh! The lighting designers and others on the creative/tech teams have also worked their butts off behind the scenes and this short time is for them to put into practice what they worked on independent from the actors now with them. 

Most actors are TOTALLY TOTALLY FINE with this.  They know it is an important piece of the puzzle for EVERYONE to work as a team to get the show up. It might be boring for them, but it is not boring for the creatives and technical teams. Its like the sitzprobe. Is the next step for some of these actors to say, "Oh, we don't want to have a sitzprobe". C'mon.  And I might add, it seems to be the same actors pissing and moaning and "oh we poor actors-ing".  In some cases....legit.  In this case they need to remember they are part of the puzzle and put things into perspective. 

[pmensky]

Posted: 10/13/21 at 1:50pm

Based on the comments I’ve seen on social media, this is specifically in reference to rehearsal, not performance weeks. This model would be a financial challenge for smaller regional theatres which usually have a three week rehearsal period. If you reduce each of those work weeks by one day and reduce three, 10 out of 12s to normal work days, you’re losing the equivalent of about four days of rehearsal from the current model which you would have to make up by adding work days. That’s a lot of additional payroll for everyone involved. While commercial producers may be able to handle this, smaller companies would be challenged by this model.

[fashionguru_23]

Posted: 10/13/21 at 1:51pm

You know on tv shows when a kid isn't doing well in school and is having problems with a teacher, then dad all of sudden starts dating said teacher, and the kid starts to get special treatment for the duration of the relationship? I think we are in that spot right now as a society. 

Society is in a weak position with our priorities and morals and why shouldn't everyone try to take the opportunity?

Updated On: 10/13/21 at 01:51 PM

[JBroadway]

Posted: 10/13/21 at 2:10pm

pmensky said: “smaller companies would be challenged by this model."

 

Ma-Yi Company is joining this movement, and they commented on this very excuse in their post:

https://www.instagram.com/p/CU54GEutidw/?utm_medium=copy_link

 

[kingjames2]

Posted: 10/13/21 at 2:18pm

Tsao5 said: "Some actors are behaving so, for lack of better word, "precious". 10 out of 12 is for the tech and crew and creatives. It is their, basically, only time to have the actorsonstage in this short amount of timeto go cue to cue to make the SHOW and THEM look good. And it is only 1 to 3 days at most. Sheesh! The lighting designers and others on the creative/tech teams have also worked their butts off behind the scenes and this short time is for them to put into practice what they worked on independent from the actors now with them.

Most actors are TOTALLY TOTALLY FINE with this. They know it is an important piece of the puzzle for EVERYONE to work as a team to get the show up. It might be boring for them, but it is not boring for the creatives and technical teams. Its like the sitzprobe. Is the next step for some of these actors to say, "Oh, we don't want to have a sitzprobe". C'mon. And I might add, it seems to be the same actors pissing and moaning and "oh we poor actors-ing". In some cases....legit. In this case they need to remember they are part of the puzzle and put things into perspective."

Hi. Lighting Designer here. It's not 1-3 days "at most." On large musicals it can stretch on for weeks. As others have pointed out, a 10 hour workday for the actors translates into upwards of 14, 16, or even 18 hour days for the designers and crew, especially assistant designers who are expected to be on site at 8am (the actors get to go home at midnight, but the creative teams stay for post-rehearsal production meetings that I have personally experienced go past 2am).

As to the point that cutting the hours in the day back would necessitate adding more...maybe. But the truth of the matter is that most of us are shot mentally and physically come 9pm, and more often than not I've thrown most of what happens between 9pm and midnight away the next day. The cost in OT, especially on broadway, simply isn't worth it.

Oh, and speaking of OT, designers are paid via flat fee and assistants are paid overtime-exempt weekly salaries (typically around $1780/week). They are worked to the bone, six days a week, and they (and we) are exhausted. There is absolutely no reason to tech a show like this, no matter how big, small, rich, or poor your company is. Broadway or Off, regional or community, it's an inhumane and unsustainable way of working.

No More 10 out of 12s has done an outstanding amount of advocacy work around this issue, and many of the questions being asked here can be answered on their website. I encourage everyone to check it out:

https://nomore10outof12s.com

[RippedMan]

Posted: 10/13/21 at 2:34pm

For reference, I was talking from the actors perspective. You aren't really working, but just providing a body, and you might run some scenes here and there, but I've never minded a tech day. I think it's exciting to see everything come together. 

[JBroadway]

Posted: 10/13/21 at 2:41pm

^Right, but as several people have said, the point is that it’s not all about the actors. The other employees matter too. Not only are they working that whole time, they are working even longer hours.

[Tag]

Posted: 10/13/21 at 2:44pm

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe a Broadway production is allowed seven '10 out of 12' days leading up to previews.

[JSquared2]

Posted: 10/13/21 at 2:48pm

kingjames2 said: "Hi. Lighting Designer here. It's not 1-3 days "at most." On large musicals it can stretch on for weeks. As others have pointed out, a 10 hour workday for the actors translates into upwards of 14, 16, or even 18 hour days for the designers and crew, especially assistant designers who are expected to be on site at 8am (the actors get to go home at midnight, but the creative teams stay for post-rehearsal production meetings that I have personally experienced go past 2am).

These statements alone proves that you have no idea what you are talking about.  Equity allows up to 7 "10 out of 12" days over the last 2 weeks leading up to previews. Assistant designers are covered by United Scenic Artists, and after "X" number of hours, they go into overtime.  Production meetings are always "off the clock".  

 

[pmensky]

Posted: 10/13/21 at 2:50pm

JBroadway said: "pmensky said: “smaller companies would be challenged by this model."



Ma-Yi Company is joining this movement, and they commented on this very excuse in their post:

https://www.instagram.com/p/CU54GEutidw/?utm_medium=copy_link

"

I’m thrilled that Ma-Yi believes they can make this work for them, but I don’t see anything in their IG post suggesting that adding an extra week of payroll wouldn’t be a challenge for them or any other small professional theatres. Adding tens of thousands of dollars to a budget for an extra week of rehearsal is not an excuse, it’s a considerable amount of money for a lot of theatres.

[HeyMrMusic]

Posted: 10/13/21 at 2:54pm

As someone who has gone through many tech processes (and I’m just about to enter one) 10 out of 12s are definitely not 1 to 3 days max. It’s more like a week or longer, hence the term “tech week.” It’s also much longer than 12 hours when you factor in so many other things. Production meetings after tech days can go on for so long and everyone is exhausted and cranky, especially towards the end of the rehearsal period. Exhaustion also means less focus and concentration for all, which becomes a safety issue, especially in tech. It is not just actors standing around waiting for lights to be focused. Many people are working the entire time and it takes so much focus to get it done with so many cooks in the kitchen.

The tech process I’m going into is doing 8 out of 10s. Still long but so much more sensible. Now the 5 rehearsal days, I was just talking to our director who said the one day off was definitely not enough to feel restful, and I agreed since I used the 24 hours off to do work for the show anyway.

There’s a way to shift how things are done in theatre. You just stop doing things the way it’s always been done. It’s possible. If it means that scheduling has to be strategic, so be it. It’s worth it for the safety for and quality of work of the performers, creatives, designers, musicians, crew, etc. Everyone benefits from shorter tech days and shorter rehearsal weeks.

[kingjames2]

Posted: 10/13/21 at 4:02pm

Ok...I don't really want to nitpick here, but...


Thesestatements alone proves that you have no idea what you are talking about. Equity allows up to 7 "10 out of 12" days over the last 2 weeks leading up to previews.

If we're talking an Equity show (and more specifically, the production contract), yes! (Actually, it's only the final week, not two weeks, prior to first preview, with lots of caveats.) But lots of companies aren't Broadway, and even more aren't Equity. I have several friends who've teched non-eq tours with truly absurd #s of 10/12s. And bear in mind, many designers and technicians are bouncing from show to show, thus we are ALWAYS in the middle of tech, and frequently in the middle of unrelenting 10/12s.

Assistant designers are covered by United Scenic Artists, and after "X" number of hours, they go into overtime.

Again, assuming we're talking Broadway. This is false. There is no overtime for assistant designers. (Come tot think of it, there is no overtime for any designer or assistant in live performance under any current USA 829 contract).

Production meetings are always "off the clock".

Right - this is exactly my point! It's the 17th and 18th hour of an absurdly long day that we're not getting paid for.
 

 

[IronMan]

Posted: 10/13/21 at 4:26pm

"10 out of 12" means that the ACTORS are there for 12 hours (with two hour breaks).  The CREW is there long before that to set up, and long after to clean up.  I've done techs where I report at 8am, leave at midnight, and report back at 8am.  For a week.  

Please don't comment on things that you have no experience with. 

Updated On: 10/13/21 at 04:26 PM

[SeanD2]

Posted: 10/13/21 at 4:34pm

If we got rid of 10 out of 12s what excuse would actresses have for turning down a proposal!

 

 

[everythingtaboo]

Posted: 10/13/21 at 5:13pm

Are the crews generally involved in 10 out of 12s there specifically for tech? I only ask because I could see them justifying the tech week process by saying "it's a concentrated amount of time, so while it's a lot of hours, it's not over a long period" and since it's not all the time, short bursts of activity can be allowed.

[HeyMrMusic]

Posted: 10/13/21 at 6:39pm

The crew involved in 10 out of 12s are the show crew plus designers and their associates, creative team and their associates, cast, musicians, wranglers and tutors, stage managers… it’s everyone who works in the run of the show plus the people putting together the show.