Paulson expose On Great Comet controversy- Page 2

[HogansHero]

Posted: 8/29/17 at 10:02pm

1. Talk is cheap: they had no star lined up, and were not going to get one. 

2. Rain Wilson is not a star. And he would not sell enough tickets to keep this show afloat. And he lacks the chops.

3. Someone said he would sell tickets but not as well as Groban. Bear in mind that during Groban's lengthy tenure the show was only able to return 15% of its investment. Like I've been saying since it was announced, this show was born to fail. 

[adamgreer]

Posted: 8/29/17 at 10:02pm

It's just laughable that she truly believes that she, who has not one iota to do with the show, is in possession of more information than actual members of the company. I mean, does she not realize how ridiculous she sounds?

[PaulWom]

Posted: 8/29/17 at 10:09pm

HogansHero, your blindness is frankly laughable. You have no data to establish that whatever TV star they are referring to wouldn't sell tickets, especially when Ingrid was able to sustain them through her run. 

[GeorgeandDot]

Posted: 8/29/17 at 10:11pm

Don't engage with Hogan.  He's delusional.  It's better to just block him.

[haterobics]

Posted: 8/29/17 at 10:13pm

PaulWom said: "HogansHero, your blindness is frankly laughable. You have no data to establish that whatever TV star they are referring to wouldn't sell tickets, especially when Ingrid was able to sustain them through her run. "

So, he needs to counter opinion with data? Seems a tad unfair.

[BroadwayConcierge]

Posted: 8/29/17 at 10:16pm

Cannot believe Erivo is still getting involved in this in any way beyond apologizing for getting involved in the first place. Seriously obnoxious.

[binau]

Posted: 8/29/17 at 10:17pm

This unfortunate situation is a direct result of what our ultra-PC, 'post-truth' hysterical activism culture is doing to us. While always with good intentions, there appears to be a large fraction of our society who get so emotionally charged around issues towards race, gender and sexuality that they are blind to the truth (we aren't ALWAYS victims of our demographics in every situation, such as this one). While ironically ignoring the devastating way some of these demographics are treated in religious circles within Western countries and world-wide.

We are going too far, and we need to calm down before this madness continues. 

 

 

[trpguyy]

Posted: 8/29/17 at 10:20pm

There seems to be an inverse correlation between Erivo's talent and her critical thinking skills.

[bear88]

Posted: 8/29/17 at 10:24pm

Quick thoughts:

Howard Kagan confirmed what I wrote last night on another thread. The plan was for the show to win Best New Musical and become a must-see sensation even after Josh Groban left. That didn't work out, an outcome he must have realized months before the Tonys, so then he got desperate. The story is quite right in deeming Great Comet a long shot. Kagan seems to have good taste in theatre, and I am grateful that he financed this project; he's just not very good at mapping out a realistic path to success. Every show can't be Hamilton. The audit suggests that other investors are wondering where all the money went.

The story states that a TV star was ready to step in and was getting musical training. Ah, those wasted accordian lessons. But would the star who backed out after the Onaodowan fiasco broke been a big enough name to keep the show afloat? My guess is that Kagan must not have thought so because producers were hoping Mandy Patinkin was going to stay after Sept. 3 and the whole Patinkin scheme seemed so desperate in the first place. Why were those three weeks so critical if a bankable star was about to join the cast? 

Unless Onaodowan is just lying, it sounds like a delicate situation was mishandled. It's quite possible that everything would have gone south regardless, but even Dave Malloy admitted that they overlooked the bad optics - a problem that might have been avoided if the folks in charge had realized the firing a black actor after two weeks is going to prompt hurt feelings and some likely blowback. If any POC was involved in dealing with that matter, I will be surprised.

But Onaodowan doesn't help his cause by saying, weeks later in an on-the-record interview, that Great Comet and its diverse cast can essentially pound sand even while admitting that the motivation for his dismissal was not race-related. He doesn't give any indication that he's bothered that the show is closing, and that fellow performers who won't collect Hamilton checks for years to come will be out of work in a few days. I cannot see how that's in the best interest of his career.

In the end, though, the musical wasn't going to be long for Broadway no matter what happened. I certainly agree with the cast and creators that it's tragic for the show to be leaving this way.

Updated On: 8/29/17 at 10:24 PM

[chernjam]

Posted: 8/29/17 at 10:41pm

qolbinau said: "This unfortunate situation is a direct result of what our ultra-PC, 'post-truth' hysterical activism culture is doing to us. While always with good intentions, there appears to be a large fraction of our society who get so emotionally charged around issues towards race, gender and sexuality that they are blind to the truth (we aren't ALWAYS victims of our demographics in every situation, such as this one). While ironically ignoring the devastating way some of these demographics are treated in religious circles within Western countries and world-wide.

We are going too far, and we need to calm down before this madness continues. 

 

 

"

Thanks for saying this qolbinau.... I have great respect for the issues of diversity and am happy to see producers accepting great actors and actresses playing roles outside of their races, ethnicity... but what all these ultra PC ers are doing is making things impossible for an already difficult business to ever succeed.

I think back to the Sunset Blvd debacle... the Patti-Glen controversy - which was ugly, and embarrassing and translated into the biggest advance ticket sale till Hello Dolly broke it this year ($37.5 million in 1994) Because it was two white women, the drama, the sides, turned this into an even bigger event. Whether that was intentional or not, it did.

Not an exact comparison - and I was surprised when I heard Patankin had agreed in the first place. And figured there would be some rumblings of Oak being fired but that the ink would be minimal, would add to extra sales for Oaks last weeks and then Mandy would've sold out for those three weeks. And perhaps Comet could've had some mojo in what's been a rough summer on broadway.

But as soon as it became labeled "racist" the knives were out. And the arts community which probably does the most to support diversity in this country devoured itself rather than recognizing the reality of this being also show business.

[trpguyy]

Posted: 8/29/17 at 10:45pm

I can assure you that Oak was complicit in all of this. He even had a chance to make things right but let his ego get in the way.

[VintageSnarker]

Posted: 8/29/17 at 10:48pm

bear88 said: "The story states that a TV star was ready to step in and was getting musical training. Ah, those wasted according lessons. But would the star who backed out after the Onaodowan fiasco broke been a big enough name to keep the show afloat? My guess is that Kagan must not have thought so because producers were hoping Mandy Patinkin was going to stay after Sept. 3 and the whole Patinkin scheme seemed so desperate in the first place. Why were those three weeks so critical if a bankable star was about to join the cast?"

Unless it was Weird Al (I already know he's not a TV star. It's a joke. Don't start.) maybe they were trying to give the next Pierre replacement time to learn the part and the instruments. 

Also, I find Cynthia's twitter presence post this Comet drama disappointing. I just can't look at it anymore or it will start to taint her actual work for me. 

[BroadwayRox3588]

Posted: 8/29/17 at 10:54pm

HogansHero said: "1. Talk is cheap: they had no star lined up, and were not going to get one. 

2. Rain Wilson is not a star. And he would not sell enough tickets to keep this show afloat. And he lacks the chops.

3. Someone said he would sell tickets but not as well as Groban. Bear in mind that during Groban's lengthy tenure the show was only able to return 15% of its investment. Like I've been saying since it was announced, this show was born to fail. 

 

"

Talk is, indeed, cheap. And so is saying things like what I have bolded, without backing it up. As it stands right now, they are empty words. Unless you have insider information (which I suspect you probably don't), then everything you said, that I have bolded, is mere speculation.

Updated On: 8/29/17 at 10:54 PM

[rosscoe(au)]

Posted: 8/29/17 at 10:56pm

That guy from blackbroadway is disillusioned as well.

[HogansHero]

Posted: 8/29/17 at 11:12pm

"especially when Ingrid was able to sustain them through her run. "

But the show is not sustainable at Ingrid's numbers. And anyone who thinks it is is the delusional one. 

[PaulWom]

Posted: 8/29/17 at 11:16pm

HogansHero said: ""especially when Ingrid was able to sustain them through her run. "

But the show is not sustainable at Ingrid's numbers. And anyone who thinks it is is the delusional one. 

 

"

I'm sorry, do you have numbers on this? Or are you pulling it out of your ass?

[HogansHero]

Posted: 8/29/17 at 11:21pm

@broadwayrox speculation, yes, but informed speculation. The point is: the show was not sustainable with Ingrid, would not have been with Rain Wilson and there was no one big enough and good enough who would do it for any significant period of time. Groban returned 15% of the investment over the better part of a season. That's awful. How much bigger would you need to cure that? A show cannot take 5+ years to recoup and expect to maintain any level of interest. Like I said, born to fail, but everyone can believe what they want to believe and call anyone who doesn't line up behind them blind, delusional or any other cute words. But people who know this business line up on my side. Ask any you can find; it's what they have been laughing about for a year.

[PaulWom]

Posted: 8/29/17 at 11:26pm

HogansHero, first of all, It feels like you're switching the topic. I'm sure the investors are concerned about their loss of money, but what the Bway community at large is concerned with is the loss of jobs in the building. Ingrid's numbers might not have helped them recoup at a really fast rate (again- just speculation- we don't have the numbers), but only a fool would say that the show couldn't run on them, and that 100+ people in the Imperial couldn't have continued working- doesn't matter if it was a year, or until January- a job is a job. And also, to assume that this Oak controversy didn't cause everyone involved massive trauma just because they *might* have closed later this year is just awful. Groundhog's Day is closing, and they lost a ton of money as well. I'm sure their cast is upset, but not as upset as Comet's.

Updated On: 8/29/17 at 11:26 PM

[JayElle]

Posted: 8/29/17 at 11:26pm

Davie10086 said, "Indeed he will. As for  Casal and Ervivo for starting / contributing the social media fire - they have nothing else to say? I guess they like to lead everyone onto the road of oncoming traffic, and then run away from the fatalities. "

Totally agree.  What do they intend to do to help the cast find jobs.  Ervivo should go back to England. Casal, still don't know what he does, but apparently nothing in the show.

[RippedMan]

Posted: 8/29/17 at 11:31pm

I don't think anyone is arguing the finances were awful. But, if Patinkin and Wilson could have extended the life of the show until January, think of all those jobs. And how this great show could still find an audience, etc. But alas, Oak sucks. 

[BroadwayRox3588]

Posted: 8/29/17 at 11:32pm

HogansHero said: "@broadwayrox speculation, yes, but informed speculation. The point is: the show was not sustainable with Ingrid, would not have been with Rain Wilson and there was no one big enough and good enough who would do it for any significant period of time. Groban returned 15% of the investment over the better part of a season. That's awful. How much bigger would you need to cure that? A show cannot take 5+ years to recoup and expect to maintain any level of interest. Like I said, born to fail, but everyone can believe what they want to believe and call anyone who doesn't line up behind them blind, delusional or any other cute words. But people who know this business line up on my side. Ask any you can find; it's what they have been laughing about for a year.

 

"

I did not call you blind, or delusional, so please don't @ me on that. I prefer to ask questions to make people think, rather than name-call. All I was doing was responding to what you said. And I take very little issue with anything else you said (although I would never laugh at a show that has helped as many people as Comet has).

[PaulWom]

Posted: 8/29/17 at 11:33pm

^just checking- how did Wilson's name come up? Do we have a source on that, or is it just speculation/rumours?

[PaulWom]

Posted: 8/29/17 at 11:36pm

GeorgeandDot, where might I find the block button for our resident troll (sorry... poster) HogansHero? Hypothetically speaking, of course

[broadwayboy223]

Posted: 8/29/17 at 11:42pm

Plot twist is HogansHero is Cynthia Ervio... JK I don't know you in real life so I can't say I dislike you, but I have to say you do get awfully defensive whenever people talk about this

[Call_me_jorge]

Posted: 8/29/17 at 11:45pm

HogansHero said: ""especially when Ingrid was able to sustain them through her run. "

But the show is not sustainable at Ingrid's numbers. And anyone who thinks it is is the delusional one. 

 

"

If its true the show has been averaging at 700,000 a week, then the show is sustainable at ingrids numbers