Paulson expose On Great Comet controversy- Page 4

[GavestonPS]

Posted: 8/30/17 at 2:07am

qolbinau said: "This unfortunate situation is a direct result of what our ultra-PC, 'post-truth' hysterical activism culture is doing to us. While always with good intentions, there appears to be a large fraction of our society who get so emotionally charged around issues towards race, gender and sexuality that they are blind to the truth (we aren't ALWAYS victims of our demographics in every situation, such as this one). While ironically ignoring the devastating way some of these demographics are treated in religious circles within Western countries and world-wide.

We are going too far, and we need to calm down before this madness continues. 

 

 

 

"

Surely the last few weeks have reminded us that, if anything, maybe our society isn't nearly "PC" enough!

And if one is a person of color who faces daily disrespect from shop clerks, bus drivers and police officers, perhaps it isn't so easy to recognize that THIS ONE TIME it isn't about skin color.

[bear88]

Posted: 8/30/17 at 3:54am

HogansHero said: "Let me explain a bit, not from any inside info but simply by culling the numbers that have been reported and what we can reasonably project based on the experience of other shows. If the gross is $900k (that's high for a week with nothing and no one selling tickets but let's just assume that Dave Malloy is wrong and the show was not about to fall off a cliff), then the net gross would be about $810k available to pay expenses (let's assume the $700k is right which if true at all only applies with no star). So now let's pay the percentage rent and the royalties. Not knowing the precise royalty pool arrangement, let's err to the investors' side and say they end up with $65k for the week. Finally, let's assume the unrecouped amount is $12mil (I suspect it is more but again, benefit of the doubt). At that rate it would take 185 weeks (>3.5 years from now) to recoup, assuming you could sustain that level of business (and no one in their right mind would think that). So there you have it."

In the end, the numbers are what doomed Great Comet. I don't know if HogansHero's guesstimates are correct, but they sound reasonable (taking into account that I'm no expert on these things). The number that jumps out at me is the need for the show to keep up its box office pace for another 3 1/2 years. Even if it's three, or 2 1/2 years, that's a big ask for a musical that was never really designed to appeal to a large audience of tourists. How many musicals last that long in the first place? Will Dear Evan Hansen last another 3 1/2 years?

You never know what show is going to become a major hit, and Hamilton is the most recent example of that sort of phenomenon. But you can't count on your unusual gem of a show to become a smash, especially when you needed a mainstream star to get it on Broadway. Howard Kagan deserves credit for believing in the show, and getting it to Broadway, where more people (like me) got a chance to enjoy it. I do believe that Comet will be remembered as one of those unique, special, ahead-of-its-time musicals that people talk about and remember for years. That's no small achievement.

But as a business venture, it seems like it was doomed. Kagan must have known his show wasn't winning Best Musical in the spring, because I did (and I'm a dumb tourist). He must have known Great Comet wasn't a runaway hit, because all he had to do was look at the box office receipts. People like me loved the original cast, but the show itself didn't capture enough people's imagination. Dear Evan Hansen captured the zeitgeist, and a lot of the young audience. Come From Away got a lot of the good word of mouth. It was cult hit, plus a mainstream star, and it cost too much.

All of the unpleasant drama which has deprived Great Comet of the dignified ending it deserves flowed from desperation. Mandy Patinkin wouldn't have saved the show, and if there was a TV star waiting in the wings who would have goosed the box office in a serious way, the producers wouldn't have needed to grab Patinkin for a three-week stint in August (even if they were hoping he would stick around a little longer).

Onaodowan doesn't help his career prospects in the New York Times story. His version of events doesn't really ring true. Was he hired in February and not expected to learn the piano and accordian by July? I suppose that's possible, but it seems unlikely. And he's just fine with the criticism that rained down from his Twitter friends. Maybe everyone will blame Kagan, or even Rachel Chavkin, whom Onaodowan is obviously criticizing for expecting too much, but who would you rather hire? On the one hand, you have a talented director who created a unique, Tony-nominated musical and has plenty of other shows under her belt. On the other, you have the guy who's complaining about her and stood by while his allies trashed a show.  Onaodowan didn't kill Great Comet, but he seems just fine about it being dead.

Updated On: 8/30/17 at 03:54 AM

[haterobics]

Posted: 8/30/17 at 8:11am

hmph said: "I find that it really cheapens the conversation when you equate someone who wants an English person to go back to the West End so she stops annoying us stateside (likely said out of frustration and disappointment with her individual conduct/comments) with someone ignorantly placating racists and xenophobes by trying to keep entire groups of people out of the country."

In either case, it ignores how Twitter works in regards to geographic borders. I'm not sure why a black actress in London wouldn't weigh in on a racial issue affecting theater.

[Ado Annie D'Ysquith]

Posted: 8/30/17 at 8:19am

I'm just here for the popcorn. It's buttery and delicious!

*munch munch*

[hmph]

Posted: 8/30/17 at 9:06am

haterobics said: "hmph said: "I find that it really cheapens the conversation when you equate someone who wants an English person to go back to the West End so she stops annoying us stateside (likely said out of frustration and disappointment with her individual conduct/comments) with someone ignorantly placating racists and xenophobes by trying to keep entire groups of people out of the country."

In either case, it ignores howTwitter works in regards to geographic borders. I'm not sure why a black actress in London wouldn't weigh in on a racial issue affecting theater."

As Cynthia Erivo herself has pointed out, in her own special obnoxious and dismissive way, she never weighed in on the racial aspect in this case. Rafael Casal was the idiot riling people up over race (ignoring the perspective of the rest of the POC in the cast and the production's own strides in representation). Erivo always couched her views in concern for the cast. Now I don't believe the majority of the cast appreciated her brand of concern, or the way it riled up dummies on Twitter, but there you go.

I still maintain a mild expression of frustration that will have no effect on Cynthia Erivo's life is nowhere near the level of Trump actively working to keep entire groups of people out, including extremely vulnerable populations. Perspective is nice.

Updated On: 8/30/17 at 09:06 AM

[DottieD'Luscia]

Posted: 8/30/17 at 9:12am

I just finished reading the article.  Very interesting indeed.  I remembered Cynthia Erivo's initial tweets, and I thought at first they were pretty mindful.

Where was Oak's agent in all of this? It will be interesting to see what becomes of his career post Great Comet fiasco.

[Rainah]

Posted: 8/30/17 at 11:12am

Someone who knows this better than I - is this whole controversy likely to affect Dave's future work? Rachel's? what about the non-Oak members of the cast? Will this effect Dave's Moby Dick adaptation or the chance of a Hadestown transfer?

[raddersons]

Posted: 8/30/17 at 11:23am

Rainah said: "Someone who knows this better than I - is this whole controversy likely to affect Dave's future work? Rachel's? what about the non-Oak members of the cast? Will this effect Dave's Moby Dick adaptation or the chance of a Hadestown transfer?"

What's tricky about Dave is that all of his works are pretty non-conventional. I don't think most of them are suited for Broadway (Maybe Preludes is closest, but I never actually saw it). If Moby Dick is really as immersive as it sounds, then there's no way it's going to be Broadway bound. Maybe a long off-broadway run, but Broadway brings a higher cost (union requirements) and an older audience. 

[schubox]

Posted: 8/30/17 at 11:25am

I don't think anyone really thinks the show was going to run to full houses for 2-3 years. But what this controversy did take for us was seeing Patinkin in this role, and seeing a show that many, myself included, really adore not close under such controversy and ugliness. 

I think it's reasonable if Kagan's plan, as dumb as it may have been, had gone through, the show probably would have made it to the end of the year. Maybe a little more, maybe a little less. And then the show could have picked a date to close and closed. 

I've seen a lot of shows, but this show was something special. I felt very connected to it and the cast, and it just sucks this is what it will be remembered for for a lot of people. 

[Call_me_jorge]

Posted: 8/30/17 at 11:34am

Even if the show wasn't going to run for 2-3 years, it could have still ran longer than what it ended up doing. It could have at least made it through January. There are also many other roles that could have seen stunt casting. Imagine Adam lambert as Anatole? That would have been a sure fire hit. 

[Anakela]

Posted: 8/30/17 at 11:46am

From the NYT article, re: Patinkin.

"They also thought he could be persuaded to extend his run, juggling “Great Comet” and “Homeland” after Labor Day."

I don't watch Homeland, but I do know that it does not film in NY. Again, I don't watch, but - I was under the impression that Patinkin is the second lead of Homeland, after Danes? So how was he going to extend, and 'juggle' being in Comet with filming a show that he's a lead in that doesn't film in NY?

[hmph]

Posted: 8/30/17 at 11:56am

schubox said: "I don't think anyone really thinks the show was going to run to full houses for 2-3 years. But what this controversy did take for us was seeing Patinkin in this role, and seeing a show that many, myself included, really adore not close under such controversy and ugliness.

I think it's reasonable if Kagan's plan, as dumb as it may have been, had gone through, the show probably would have made it to the end of the year. Maybe a little more, maybe a little less. And then the show could have picked a date to close and closed.

I've seen a lot of shows, but this show was something special. I felt very connected to it and the cast, and it just sucks this is what it will be remembered for for a lot of people."

That's exactly where I am (on top of a lot of anger for twitter nonsense). The show didn't deserve this, and I really feel for the cast, which seemed bewildered at how quickly this spun out of control. 

[theater_tech]

Posted: 8/30/17 at 11:58am

schubox said: "I don't think anyone really thinks the show was going to run to full houses for 2-3 years. But what this controversy did take for us was seeing Patinkin in this role, and seeing a show that many, myself included, really adore not close under such controversy and ugliness.

I think it's reasonable if Kagan's plan, as dumb as it may have been, had gone through, the show probably would have made it to the end of the year. Maybe a little more, maybe a little less. And then the show could have picked a date to close and closed.

I've seen a lot of shows, but this show was something special. I felt very connected to it and the cast, and it just sucks this is what it will be remembered for for a lot of people."

hear, hear.

[poisonivy2]

Posted: 8/30/17 at 11:59am

I was there for Oak's last performance and while the audience greeted him warmly Denee Benton and the rest of the cast did not single him out in any way. They usually do that for performers singing their last performance. So I imagine the atmosphere backstage was very frosty.

OTOH maybe from Oak's perspective the cast was not friendly or welcoming to him? One thing that struck me when I read the souvenir book they had for TGC was how long many of the cast/musicians had been a part of this show. They've devoted years to it -- first downtown, then in the tent, then at ART, and finally at B'way. Rachel Chavkin and Dave Malloy refer to them as "family" constantly. Josh in order to prepare for the role had to learn the accordion and immerse himself fully with the "family" for months. 

The family atmosphere is what makes this show so special -- it's not just the big numbers, but how sometimes performers will break character and applaud each other, or break out in giggles laughing after dancing in the aisles. It's beautiful to watch but if you're brand new and trying to join something like this? It might be very hard.

[bdn223]

Posted: 8/30/17 at 12:03pm

It is somewhat hypocritical on here for everyone to argue that its Kagan's plan of relying on the Best Musical Tony to make the production financially viable. We see this all the time with musicals and more often plays that open at the end of the season. Add to that going into this season no one expected 4 things to happen,

1)Dear Evan Hansen to become the quasi-ziegiest SRO musical it became. Many thought it would be similar to other darker off Broadway transfers like Spring Awakening, Fun Home, Next to Normal, that barely kept their heads above water pre-award season, and then took off after all the Tony buzz. Others thought it could be more of a Bloody Bloody Andrew Jackson, [Title of Show], or Lysistrata Jones, in which it was very much a theater filler for the fall, as that was the only time Jujamcyn, Neaderlanders, or Shuberts would offer it a theater. No one expected it to be a Once, that was able to sell out from the get go. 

2)This leads to the second point that Dear Evan Hansen would be the early front runner pushing The Great Comet to underdog status. I think we can all agree on paper The Great Comet looks like as easy front runner, as it is one of the most initiative Musicals of all time, compared to the more traditional Dear Evan Hansen

3)Come From Away would open to glowing reviews and be more then a flash in the pan production. Add to that it basically pushed The Great Comet from being the underdog, to being the wildcard.

 

4)Most of the Spring musicals opened to mixed to positive reviews, making the Tony's overall more competitive. Thus causing what many thought would be an easy technical/direction/choreography Tony Awards sweep with a bandwagon effect argument for Book/Score/and Musical, to having to campaign hard for every single award. This can be seen since we saw it loosing what many thought were locks for Direction and Choreography in the share the wealth of this years Tony Awards. 

 

At this point last year it looked like a completely different season and if I was a Broadway investor, I be much more likely to invest in The Great Comet, then Dear Evan Hansen, let alone some 9/11 musical, with my only trepidation being the buzz I was hearing for Groundhog Day. For us to not acknowledge that, is a mistake.

[theater_tech]

Posted: 8/30/17 at 12:05pm

poisonivy2 said: "I was there for Oak's last performance and while the audience greeted him warmly Denee Benton and the rest of the cast did not single him out in any way. They usually do that for performers singing their last performance. So I imagine the atmosphere backstage was very frosty.

OTOH maybe from Oak's perspective the cast was not friendly or welcoming to him? One thing that struck me when I read the souvenir book they had for TGC was how long many of the cast/musicians had been a part of this show. They've devoted years to it -- first downtown, then in the tent, then at ART, and finally at B'way. Rachel Chavkin and Dave Malloy refer to them as "family" constantly. Josh in order to prepare for the role had to learn the accordion and immerse himself fully with the "family" for months.

The family atmosphere is what makes this show so special -- it's not just the big numbers, but how sometimes performers will break character and applaud each other, or break out in giggles laughing after dancing in the aisles. It's beautiful to watch but if you're brand new and trying to join something like this? It might be very hard."

Ingrid seems to get along with the cast very well. 

[Call_me_jorge]

Posted: 8/30/17 at 12:08pm

I don't believe they weren't friendly to him, at least not at the beginning. They were probably very welcoming, especially after hearing how welcoming they were of Ingrid and Mandy during rehearsals.

 

while I'm a fan of dear Evan Hansen, equally, if not more so than TGC. I believe TGC losing will be equated to Ragtime or Next to Normal losing in the future. 

[Rainah]

Posted: 8/30/17 at 12:13pm

I don't think it's a case of being friendly as much as it's a case of bad fit - the atmosphere at Comet is very different than the atmosphere at Hamilton. Tommy Kail let that cast get away with murder because they were all extremely talented and broadway's darlings. Rachel Chavkin is known for being down to earth, yeah, but also running a tight ship and expecting the cast to put the work in. I doubt things like showing up to the theatre 10min before the show was scheduled to start would fly at Comet.

 

So I can definitely imagine them getting off on the wrong foot, Oak feeling alienated, and everything compounding with this drama and Oak ultimately choosing to walk away rather than put out the fire

Updated On: 8/30/17 at 12:13 PM

[Eliza2]

Posted: 8/30/17 at 12:16pm

theater_tech said: "Ingrid seems to get along with the cast very well."

Exactly. There was a cute video of much of the cast gathered in Ingrid's dressing room before her last performance singing a version of her song "Everybody" with modified lyrics directed towards her "everybody everybody loves you lots, everybody everybody loves you Ingrid" etc.

I was also at that final performance for her and Oak. I wasn't expecting any speeches or anything special since it was the final performance for two actors who had only been with the show for a short time. But I was struck by the social media presence of the cast - I saw many posts with love and goodbyes for Ingrid, none for Oak. That spoke volumes.

[kbreen826]

Posted: 8/30/17 at 12:21pm

I just generally noticed a lot more love for Josh and Ingrid - for example, around Halloween, Josh and Lucas did their fight call for Pierre and Anatole in onesies; the cast still interacts wtih Josh on Twitter often. Re: Ingrid, there was also that video of her and Brittain singing a duet of Sonya Alone together. From what I understand, they are a very welcoming company; I wonder if Oak perhaps got off on the wrong foot or something and that affected their interactions. 

[poisonivy2]

Posted: 8/30/17 at 12:28pm

Rainah said: "I don't think it's a case of being friendly as much as it's a case of bad fit - the atmosphere at Comet is very different than the atmosphere at Hamilton. Tommy Kail let that cast get away with murder because they were all extremely talented and broadway's darlings. Rachel Chavkin is known for being down to earth, yeah, but also running a tight ship and expecting the cast to put the work in. I doubt things like showing up to the theatre 10min before the show was scheduled to start would fly at Comet.



So I can definitely imagine them getting off on the wrong foot, Oak feeling alienated, and everything compounding with this drama and Oak ultimately choosing to walk away rather than put out the fire"

Also the Hamilton OBC was an amazing array of talent but they were a marriage of convenience. I think I read about Leslie Odom Jr. and Lin Manuel Miranda having a rather ugly falling-out over Leslie's contract. So maybe Oak's expectations about what relationships with colleagues are supposed to be are very different from the expectations of the Great Comet "family." (I use that term because that's what they call themselves.)

of course personality counts -- Brittain and Ingrid did sing a cute duet of "Sonya Alone" together:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9xLqQtJGA0c&spfreload=10&scrlybrkr=e53caedf

And Lucas made a really heartfelt speech at Josh's final performance.

 

[irishgator1]

Posted: 8/30/17 at 12:31pm

I just remain baffled why Casal and Erivo are doubling down, rather than admitting they misspoke or jumped the gun in their condemnation.  While it's clear that they are not the sole reason Comet is closing prematurely, their involvement and the resulting explosion certainly scared away any potential replacements who could've taken the show to a dignified end.  A simple "We spoke before we had all the facts and we are so sorry for what impact this has had" would be the honorable and correct course of action.

[theater_tech]

Posted: 8/30/17 at 12:32pm

Eliza2 said: "theater_tech said: "Ingrid seems to get along with the cast very well."

Exactly. There was a cute video of much of the cast gathered in Ingrid's dressing room before her last performance singing a version of her song "Everybody" with modified lyrics directed towards her "everybody everybody loves you lots, everybody everybody loves you Ingrid" etc.

I was also at that final performance for her and Oak. I wasn't expecting any speeches or anything special since it was the final performance for two actors who had only been with the show for a short time. But I was struck by the social media presence of the cast - I saw many posts with love and goodbyes for Ingrid, none for Oak. That spoke volumes."

 

Not to mention the few videos of Ingrid and Courtney Bassett dancing for their pre-show warmup. And Ingrid, like Josh's boat party, held a farewell karaoke party. Just from social media, I think you can really feel the love around the cast. 

[David10086]

Posted: 8/30/17 at 12:37pm

trpguyy said: "I can assure you that Oak was complicit in all of this. He even had a chance to make things right but let his ego get in the way."

 

I agree. This was probably THE MOST attention he has ever gotten in his career - and it was all off-stage. I truly believe he relished in it, loving every second. But now he will face the consequences, as I fear producers will hesitate to cast him in anything for the future. 

[PaulWom]

Posted: 8/30/17 at 12:41pm

Oak was once attached to Frozen... Does anyone know why he no longer is? Perhaps because of this kind of behavior?