Scherzinger in SUNSET BLVD. Previews- Page 15

[Lot666]

Posted: 10/11/24 at 3:56pm

SonofRobbieJ said: "But, sweet baby Jesus, is Too Much in Love to Care a dreadful song. There's not enough polish in the world for that turd."

I love that song.

[BETTY22]

Posted: 10/11/24 at 4:16pm

Excellent points Mellony! You really made me think about this.

Thanks 

[Bwaygurl2]

Posted: 10/11/24 at 4:29pm

Lot666 said: "SonofRobbieJ said: "But, sweet baby Jesus, is Too Much in Love to Care a dreadful song. There's not enough polish in the world for that turd."
I love that song."

It's funny because as a teen obsessed with the OBCR, I would usually skip that song. Sure enough, that was the song I couldn't get out of my head after seeing the last revival! It's a lovely song, but I find Betty and Joe boring as a couple, and that makes me less interested in it, but just as a song it's beautiful. 

[bwaylyric]

Posted: 10/11/24 at 5:55pm

What's the stage door scene been like since her bloody debut?

[EvanstonDad]

Posted: 10/11/24 at 6:50pm

Lot666 said: "SonofRobbieJ said: "But, sweet baby Jesus, is Too Much in Love to Care a dreadful song. There's not enough polish in the world for that turd."
I love that song."

It's funny because as a teen obsessed with the OBCR, I would usually skip that song. Sure enough, that was the song I couldn't get out of my head after seeing the last revival! It's a lovely song, but I find Betty and Joe boring as a couple, and that makes me less interested in it, but just as a song it's beautiful. 

I love that song too. I also really like The Lady's Paying, which a lot of people seem to hate. In fact, I love the entire score to this musical. 

[BCfitasafiddle]

Posted: 10/11/24 at 7:10pm

Is Tom Francis back in tonight? Going tomorrow and do not want to miss his performance.

[The8re phan]

Posted: 10/11/24 at 7:58pm

bwaylyric said: "What's the stage door scene been like since her bloody debut?"

was a bit of a cluster on Wednesday --- at first, everyone was gathered at the door toward Broadway and barricade, where the ensemble came out and signed.  Then they broke down the barricade and told everyone to go home, but someone slipped that Nicole was coming out the actual stage door toward 8th, and everybody ran over there.  She came out with Jamie, freshly showered and in a jogging suit, and graciously signed for everyone.  

And this show is BONKERS........ and i cannot wait to go back

[jordgoldberg]

Posted: 10/11/24 at 8:11pm

BCfitasafiddle said: "Is Tom Francis back in tonight? Going tomorrow and do not want to miss his performance."

Echoing this if anyone happens to know as I'm going tomorrow night too! 

[Bill Snibson]

Posted: 10/11/24 at 9:22pm

Add me to the list. Seeing the matinee tomorrow. Really hope he is back in but I'll be fine to see the u/s as long as NS is in. That's a refund situation. 

[BJR]

Posted: 10/11/24 at 9:38pm

Is it still kept pretty warm in the house? We have one yes and then one no, later. I get warm as it is... so, if he's keeping it very warm, I want to be sure.

[The8re phan]

Posted: 10/11/24 at 10:03pm

BJR said: "Is it still kept pretty warm in the house? We have one yes and then one no, later. I get warm as it is... so, if he's keeping it very warm, I want to be sure."

TBH, I hadn't noticed it being overly warm.  Actually wished it would've been even hotter so that the ice in the sippy cup of the woman sitting behind me would've melted faster. :(

[jordgoldberg]

Posted: 10/11/24 at 10:31pm

Bill Snibson said: "Add me to the list. Seeing the matinee tomorrow. Really hope he is back in but I'll be fine to see the u/s as long as NS is in. That's a refund situation."

Saw a TikTok from Shubert Alley tonight and Tom is back!

Updated On: 10/11/24 at 10:31 PM

[Bill Snibson]

Posted: 10/11/24 at 11:21pm

Thank you. Can't wait. Will report back on my take. 

[theatreguy12]

Posted: 10/12/24 at 3:12pm

PipingHotPiccolo said: "ColorTheHours048 said: "This Norma is a Real Housewife, a Golden Bachelorette, a former soap actress, an… aging pop star. A vampire, possibly. She’s not meant to be the kind of grandiose silent movie star literally written in the script and presented in the realism of the movie/original production. Anyone trying to make sense of why she doesn’t look like Glenn Close or Patti LuPone or Gloria Swanson are sort of missing the point.

Now, as to whether you think that “point” is worth making: your mileage may vary. I’m in the “this is brilliant” camp, but if it doesn’t resonate with you, that’s showbiz."

There were moments that this Norma did come off like a Real Housewife but we are asked to fill in the blanks about all of it, and it didnt come off consistent as she descends into actual murder. No one wants her to look like Glenn Close, but the story turns on a woman being "over the hill" and forgotten by her fans/industry. Scherzinger's sex appeal and star power make that harder to swallow.

"

Interesting take. And yes, I see what you're saying about NS.  She may be in her 40s, but she is not a Glenn or Patti or Betty type at all.  Or even a Gloria Swanson type.

And we're living in age when this "over the hill" actress phenom is not nearly as predominant as it was in the past anyway.  Older actresses, many of whom have been successful actresses for decades, are still getting cast.  And in some pretty great roles.  I don't think the whole "aging actress" nowadays is the same as it was when this movie was made.  It would have been much more compelling back then than it is now.  Silent film stars were pushed out as the talkies came into existence. And then plum roles for older women did seem few and far between as time moved on into the 40s and 50s.  At least by comparison to the men of the time who could age and still get great roles, often starring with women much younger than they.

But even to the latter point, that is no longer true either.  Older women are finding themselves as the heroines of books, TV shows, and movies, and there is often a much younger man written into the story.  The recently divorced 50 year old woman who travels to Italy to "find herself," and invariably ends up with a hot young Italian stud.   Or the frumpy housewife sitting at the counter in a small town cafe who is confronted by some hot young cowboy who strolls in and sits down next to her.  And we know where it goes.  So again, nothing provocative about that.

Even in real life, older women go after younger men quite regularly.  We've all seen it.  And it's not just your Madonnas and Chers. And it's accepted. I've always wondered though why women find this chic and progressive, yet they see men who do this as dirty old men going through a midlife crisis. lol.  Do they think the same of the women who are doing it now? 

I'm in my 50s and I have female friends who are in the same age bracket and have tried the dating apps. While they are very attractive, they don't have the money and power of a Cher, but they're getting approached by younger men quite often.  Again these are not guys who are necessarily looking for "sugar mommas" either.  Some might be, but not all.   Men are not exactly what women make them out to be, at least in the straight world.  They're not all looking for perfection in body, age, or bank account as many women will make it seem to be. Younger men especially seem to be not so troubled by that. (Now, in the gay community, it's completely different. Younger men will only look at older men if the older dude is willing to offer something of the "gen" sort.   You do "age out" in the gay community when it comes to dating and relationships. Unless you're a Hollywood director, or producer, or the like, that is).

Neither of the stories in SB though--the "aging actress" or the older woman/younger man storyline--is especially provocative anymore.  This is why this musical does have to be a musical of its time. As in one that takes place in the 40s/50s.  When the storylines were a little more believable and thought-provoking.  Putting it into some modernistic form of staging does seem gimmicky, but I would say it is understandable and in some ways necessary.  Because many theatergoers like this approach to theater.  Especially nowadays. A standard revival of SB with the rising house and the authentic to the time costumes, even with a NS in the lead, wasn't going to garner much discussion.  

 

[EricMontreal22]

Posted: 10/12/24 at 5:32pm

" (Now, in the gay community, it's completely different. Younger men will only look at older men if the older dude is willing to offer something of the "gen" sort.   You do "age out" in the gay community when it comes to dating and relationships. Unless you're a Hollywood director, or producer, or the like, that is). "

You know, while there is truth to this and I hear guys complaining about it constantly, I don't think there is as much truth to it as implied here.  I know so many guys in relationships where the ages are, say, 32/57 and similar and in those situations it can never be said it was for the money or due to their fame or anything.  I think it has changed (somewhat) for gay men as well, is my point.

Of course adding to all this is the fact that (and scientists have spoken about this) as average lifespans lengthen, people physically age slower (and this also has to do with societal changes as well as health, etc.)  It's happened before (there wasn't a physical adolescence stage in the modern sense until the 20th century--not just a societal stage.)  And it's why when you revive older works you can run into trouble.  Looking at Sondheim musicals alone, in Company in 1970 Bobby is seen as firmly middle aged at 35, and Dean Jones looked it.  The four "past their prime and with no chance of turning their lives around for a fresh start" leads in Follies were all played by people between the ages of 42 and 51.  You would NEVER cast them by actors of those ages now because no one would buy it.  Blanche in Streetcar Named Desire is written as being around 35 but is rarely played by a 35 year old now, etc.

[bwayphreak234]

Posted: 10/12/24 at 5:44pm

I revisited Sunset this afternoon. This is one of those shows where I got so much more out of a second viewing than I did the first time.

First of all, Nicole’s performance has somehow managed to strengthen since the first preview (something I didn’t think would be possible). Her portrayal of Norma will be seared in my memory forever.

All the directorial choices that had me baffled at the first preview just clicked this afternoon in a way they didn’t before. Jamie Lloyd has managed to completely deconstruct the show with his approach and unearth the desperation these characters have. It’s truly fascinating the layers he has added to this show.

I can’t overly state enough just how glorious and crisp the show sounds. The orchestra sounds like a symphony, and the sound mixing between the exquisite vocals and the lush orchestra is some of the best I’ve heard on Broadway in a long time.

This went from something I really “liked” and “enjoyed” to something I can now safely say I unequivocally loved. GO.

[mshalo18]

Posted: 10/12/24 at 6:13pm

How did “the walk” go during a matinee? I believe this is their first Saturday afternoon performance. 

[bwayphreak234]

Posted: 10/12/24 at 6:29pm

mshalo18 said: "How did “the walk” go during a matinee? I believe this is their first Saturday afternoon performance."

Went well! There was some mic crackling from the wind, but other than that, it went off without a hitch.

[chernjam]

Posted: 10/12/24 at 9:56pm

How can something be so known - -to the point that I know every lyric, key change, and nuance to the score after listening to all these recordings for close to 30 years now along with having seen the original Broadway production, the US tour and 2017 revival at least 12 times... and now for well over a year, I have read every review breaking apart this new revival (and yes seen a share of clips online)

Yet I found myself completely unprepared for what I had just experienced at this afternoon's matinee (Oct 12)

Nicole Scherzinger owning that score, singing it like I've never heard it sung before, the minimalism, the dislodging the story from being narrowly told from the 1949/50 movie perspective - All of that has been covered and discussed and beyond met my already heightened expectations for this. What I didn't expect was the emotional juggernaut this cast took us on. I don't ever remember being moved to tears the way I was at both Acts finales. The fragility, vulnerability of Norma - beneath the facade she's been holding together even while being forgotten is a revelation. At the end of Act I this brokenness is met with pity from Joe which she manipulates to give her (another) new lease at life. Yet at the end of Act II she is shattered having to compete with Betty and then see she's not even losing Joe to her - he just doesn't want Norma. As she screams "I. AM. THE. GREATEST. STAR. OF. THEM. ALL." from the depths of her soul only to have the first genuine emotion from Joe where he laughs in her face - it was watching a train crash that you could not look away. The tragedy of it all only being highlighted as Max walks off in tears.

I went in worried that it couldn't live up to the hype. I came out of that theatre thinking there's no hype that can adequately capture what Jamie Lloyd has done to this classic.

There's much more to say, but I definitely need to sleep on it a bit. I cannot wait for the recording to be released and no doubt will be back for multiple viewings.

[chernjam]

Posted: 10/12/24 at 11:29pm

My review aside... since this is still previews, kind of curious about a couple of things/ changes? (Spoilers possible with these discussions so don't read on if you want to go in completely blind:

1 - The show (first Matinee) started about 10 minutes later which I was surprised since they made it clear that it would start on time.  And there was no sign of the Young Norma until the very start of the show.  She wasn't standing in silence for a prolonged period of time before the overture as I heard it had been done previously.

2 - The Act II opener is rather spectacular - and including the rest of the cast, crossing the street - they're really not playing it safe 

3 - Didn't miss The Lady's Paying or Eternal Youth- and even some of the underscoring, shortening of songs (Surrender) which I thought I'd hate most definitely made it tighter, clearer and contributed to the darkening of tone.

4 - The ending - I think the gunshots was an addition - and I thought it was amazingly effective.  The way it was staged and the effect definitely addressed the early comments "why is she covered in blood?  did she eat him???"  Really loved it and ratcheted everything up by 10

[Lot666]

Posted: 10/13/24 at 12:02pm

EvanstonDad said: "I also really like The Lady's Paying, which a lot of people seem to hate. In fact, I love the entire score to this musical."

Same here. I will miss "The Lady's Paying" and its bookend, "Eternal Youth is Worth a Little Suffering".

[CreatureKitchen]

Posted: 10/13/24 at 6:02pm

Mellony said: "Here are the two lyrics to compare, under the spoiler. Original in bold and Jamie Lloyd in italics.

 

Click Here To Toggle Spoiler Content

[JOE] How about: they don't know each other. He works the night shift and she takes classes all day. Here's the thing: they both share the same room. Sleep in the same bed. It works out cheaper that way.

[BETTY] I've a feeling you're just kidding. But to me it sounds believable. Makes a better opening than that car chase scene. Girl finds boy, borrowing her toothbrush, or oversleeping, or at her sewing machine.

[JOE, spoken] You know, it's not bad, there are some real possibilities

[BETTY, seeing the cigarette case] Who's Norma?

[JOE, spoken] Who's who?

[BETTY, spoken] Sorry, I don't usually read private cigarette cases.

[JOE, spoken] Norma's a friend of mine: middle-aged lady, very foolish, very generous.

[BETTY, spoken] I'll say: this is solid gold. "Mad about the boy"?

[JOE, spoken] So how's Artie?

[BETTY, spoken] Stuck in Tennessee. It rains all the time - they're weeks behind. No one knows when they'll be back

[JOE, spoken] Good.

[BETTY, spoken] What's good about it? I'm missing him something fierce.

[JOE, spoken] No, I mean this idea we had. It's really pretty good. Back to work

[BETTY] What if he's a teacher?

[JOE] Where does that get us? Don't see what good it would do

[BETTY] No, it's great. If they do the same job…

[JOE] So much in common!They fall in love, wouldn't you?

[BETTY] Yes, but if he's just a teacher, then we lose those scenes in the factory.

[JOE] Not if he's a champion for the working man. Girl likes boy, she respects his talent.

[BETTY] Working with someone can turn you into a fan.

[JOE] This is fun. Writing with a partner.

[BETTY] Yes, and it could be...

[JOE] A helluva movie.

[BETTY] Can we really do this?

[BOTH] I know that we can.



Joe : Trouble is, they will never buy it. Unhappy endings won’t pay to keep up your pool.

Betty: You sound like you really hate yourself. When did you become so cynical? Why are you so frightened of reality? Grow up, Joe. Please respect your talent. That’s why I asked you to come and share it with me.

Joe (spoken): All right, we’ve come this far. Might as well bite the bullet. So, how’s Artie?

Betty: Stuck in Tennessee. It rains all the time. They’re weeks behind, nobody knows when they’ll get back.

Joe: Good

Betty: What’s good about it? I’m missing him something fierce.

Joe: No, I mean it’s good we decided to go for broke. Back to work.

Betty: So, we let the kid die?

Joe: Sounds kinda brutal. They’ll hate it in Idaho.

Betty: Don’t agree. We’re writing for grownups

Joe: Endangered species, wiped out a long time ago.

Betty: Audiences are much smarter. Smarter than we give them credit for. Let’s agree we’re going to do the best we can.

Joe: Yes, you’re right, no more second guessing.

Betty: Working with someone can turn you into a fan.

Joe: This is fun, writing with a partner.

Betty: Yes, and it could be…

Joe: a helluva movie.

Betty: Can we really do this?

Both: I know that we can."

 

Just an interesting note: the current Australian production also uses the changed lyrics from the Jamie Lloyd version. Although it also makes some other changes that are unique. So, I wonder if these lyrics are now "official" or where the change came from?

[SonofRobbieJ]

Posted: 10/14/24 at 1:36pm

EricMontreal22 said: "" (Now, in the gay community, it's completely different. Younger men will only look at older men if the older dude is willing to offersomething of the"gen" sort. You do "age out" in the gay community when it comes to dating and relationships. Unless you're a Hollywood director, or producer, or the like, that is). "

You know, while there is truth to this and I hear guys complaining about it constantly, I don't think there is as much truth to it as implied here. I know so many guys in relationships where the ages are, say, 32/57 and similar and in those situations it can never be said it was for the money or due to their fame or anything. I think it has changed (somewhat) for gay men as well, is my point.

Of course adding to all this is the fact that (and scientists have spoken about this) as average lifespans lengthen, people physically age slower (and this also has to do with societal changes as well as health, etc.) It's happened before (there wasn't a physical adolescence stage in the modern sense until the 20th century--not just a societal stage.) And it's why when you revive older works you can run into trouble. Looking at Sondheim musicals alone, in Company in 1970 Bobby is seen as firmly middle aged at 35, and Dean Jones looked it. The four "past their prime and with no chance of turning their lives around for a fresh start" leads in Follies were all played by people between the ages of 42 and 51. You would NEVER cast them by actors of those ages now because no one would buy it. Blanche in Streetcar Named Desire is written as being around 35 but is rarely played by a 35 year old now, etc."

I had a memory that Blanche was actually younger than that and, though it's not listed in the script, I did find a notation that Williams intended for her to be 30. That would be like Florence Pugh playing Blanche.

And though it's not entirely germane to the discussion, I also am with you on changes in how people age in the queer community, Eric. If I knew, when I was in my 20s, that I would be considered far more desirable in my 40s than I ever was in my 20s, I would have saved myself a lot of stressing over my love and sex life back then. It's a new world compared to the mid-90s to early Aughties. 

To try to tie that back into the conversation, I think that's why Sunset Boulevard works best as a funny noir/horror story than a trenchant expose on Hollywood's treatment of aging actresses. The switch from silents to talkies weren't about people aging out. It was about a style of film acting that simply fell away which swept a large number of careers with it. It's absurd at any point for a 50 (or 40) year old to insist they can play 16. Hell, if you watch Sunset as a companion piece to All About Eve ('Miss Channing is ageless'), you'd see which film actually has more to say about aging actresses. 

[Mellony]

Posted: 10/14/24 at 2:38pm

I always interpreted Norma wanting to play a 16-year-old as a delusional desire to return to some form of innocence. She started working at 16, and that's when she met Max and he started grooming her to be a star and his wife. It was a traumatic industry for young women to work in: Clara Bow ended up having a mental break and was diagnosed with schizophrenia, Judy Garland was fed pills from a young age, and many more stories. Others have rightfully pointed out that Norma was ousted due to her behavior, but that behavior likely came from trauma early in her career, and wanting to regress back to the start of her career could be seen as a way of trying to undo that trauma.

If anything, Sunset seems to be more about mental health and misogyny than ageism, although I think ageism plays a role. Plenty of real actresses who were about Norma's age did transition from silent film to talkies (again, Clara Bow), but the industry was still not kind to their mental health. With sound, there was also a degree of misogyny involved in the transition, even subconsciously. Many women were pushed out of positions as directors, writers, and producers as film began to be seen as more of a legit artform. And early microphones, invented primarily by and for men, had trouble accurately picking up women's voices and audiences also tended to be more critical of how women sounded. I think this is pretty neatly summed up by the juxtaposition of Betty and Norma: Betty is trying to work within the system and is never taken seriously, and Norma is incapable of playing by the system's rules and ends up self-destructing. It's lose-lose.

[VintageSnarker]

Posted: 10/14/24 at 6:06pm

SonofRobbieJ said: "It's absurd at any point for a 50 (or 40) year old to insist they can play 16."

It's not as bad but I vaguely remember a Norma Shearer role where she was trying to play a teenager. Maybe it was Marie Antoinette when she was 36?

Anyway, I agree with Mellony that the current production has more to say about mental health and misogyny than ageism and that is what's so striking about how Nicole plays the role. Even with the comedic beats, she makes you believe that Norma has experienced trauma and become erratic because of it. She's both emotionally fragile and manipulative and they seem equally rooted in her history as a movie star. She was taught to seek outside validation and seemingly has no healthy way to process her emotions (whether its her grief over the chimp or Max hiding any negative truths from her). I think there's an argument that the experience of fame itself can be traumatic, though I like Mellony's points about her relationship with Max.