So Engineer in Miss Saigon doesn't have to be (traditionally) Asian? — Page 2

His mother is Filipino.

Norbert Leo Butz was born to do this role. He will win a tony for it. He is too good not to do this role. I do not care if he is Asian. He will do the role justice. Its basically very similar to DRS for which he was excellent

Updated On: 3/25/16 at 07:39 PM

I've always wanted Ken Jeong to do the role.

Just reminding everyone that making someone appear Asian through makeup is the definition of yellowface and therefore extremely offensive and derogatory. Norbert Leo Butz should never play this role if the Engineer is Asian, which we've all agreed that he is.

I pose this question: If the role were originally played by an Asian man, would we be having this conversation? We'd never dare to dreamcast a white actress as Kim.

It astounds me that someone that racist and clueless knows what percentages are.

Dancingthrulife2 said: "... It would also be racist not to cast an Asian in a white face according to your logic."



Yeah, I guess.... But it's not my logic. I was sarcastically defending another poster because that would be their logic. They only come on the boards to cry out reverse racism like that's a thing. I think it was pretty obvious in my post that it was not my logic.



But then we really do need a sarcasm font. I mean, even Dramamama thought I was being serious when I sarcastically defended anti-vaxxers.... But I don't know how I can be any more obvious when I write sarcasm.

Was waiting for Dave19 to advocate the use of Yellowface since I saw this thread title.

Time for a reality check. As the reporter who broke the story about the ''Miss Saigon'' casting controversy in the New York Daily News in 1990, I had a front-row seat to it all. ... The role of the Engineer is Eurasian. He passes himself off as Kim's brother, so it makes sense that the Engineer looks Asian. In London, Jonathan Pryce wore prosthetics to make his eyes look more ''slanted'' (ugh), er, Asian. When Pryce was announced to come to Broadway, this practice was met with criticism (in America), so in the New York production, Pryce did not use such prosthetics.

As for the casting, there was an uproar on Broadway, from David Henry Hwang, B.D. Wong and Actors Equity arguing that this was ''yellowface'' and patently as offensive as ''blackface.'' What's more, there were so few leading roles available to Asian men and the role of the Engineer could be a star-making opportunity. Mackintosh insisted on sticking with Pryce, and the ''Miss Saigon'' casting director, Vincent Liff, claimed that a worldwide search had been made to find an Asian guy who could play the role ... and not ONE could be found. Nor was there any Asian male with a ''name'' available, he claimed. Once Mackintosh threatened to cancel the N.Y. run, Actors Equity caved. After getting Equity's OK, the show sheepishly admitted that its worldwide search was for an actress to play Kim, not the Engineer. The show regretted if there had been any ''misunderstanding.'' They wanted Pryce all along and really weren't interested in anyone else. Mackintosh had every right to cast whom he wanted, but the show should've never slandered talented Asian men by saying none of them had the skills, especially if ''Miss Saigon'' wasn't sincere in trying to find them.

Back then, the debate was framed as an issue of being ''politically correct.'' But it was an issue of equal opportunity. If ''Miss Saigon'' was willing to cast a then-unknown Asian actress (Lea Salonga) as Kim, why wasn't it willing to cast a then-unknown Asian ACTOR as the Engineer? ''Miss Saigon'' still would've sold tickets, especially since it came from the creators of ''Les Miz.'' As for the show's inability to find an Asian leading man with a ''name,'' how do Asian men get to be stars if they're not offered the starring parts? Since Pryce left the Broadway show, I believe every Engineer has been played by an Asian-American, so the idea that none of them could play it, was an idiotic lie.

It's now about 25 years later, and things have come full circle. Recently, Mackintosh revived ''Miss Saigon'' in London, and its stars are expected to come to Broadway. The Engineer was played by Jon Jon Briones, an Asian-American who was in the original Broadway ensemble. He opened to rave reviews. Looking back, Mackintosh told the Telegraph in May 2014 that the biggest mistake of his career was not foreseeing what an issue casting Pryce as the Engineer would be: ''I said it was a storm in an Oriental tea cup, thinking I was being clever. I was actually being stupid.'' He now admits that those who argued that the role of the Engineer should be played by an Asian actor had a valid point.

Updated On: 3/26/16 at 04:38 PM

Mackintosh gets credit for ''owning up'' about ''Miss Saigon'' a quarter-century later, but it should've been much sooner.

In 1990, the number of Asian-American men who had been Tony-nominated for a leading role could be counted on one hand. No Asian-American guy had ever won as a lead in a musical (or play). Twenty-five years later, that statistic has not changed. And just as the role of Kim won Lea Salonga a Tony, I bet a terrific Asian-American actor also could've won a Tony for playing the Engineer. Maybe Briones will get to do that with the revival.

Meantime, Salonga also remains the first AND only Asian actress to win a Tony for a leading role. That's how rare the opportunities are for Asian-American men AND women on Broadway.

Updated On: 3/26/16 at 05:22 PM

hork said: Depends on the context and purpose. It was fine in Cloud Atlas, for instance.

Uh, says you. There were plenty of fully justified criticisms of that.

hork said: Frankly, I think the word "yellowface" is more offensive and derogatory than the actual act you speak of.

You think the naming of a practice of racial caricature is more offensive than the actual practice?

Wayman,



Thank you, thank you, thank you. Great posts from someone that speaks with knowledge and authority.

HeyMrMusic said: "Just reminding everyone that making someone appear Asian through makeup is the definition of yellowface and therefore extremely offensive and derogatory. "


So the understudy for the role of Ellen, which is mostly a white girl, should stay locked in her dressingroom for the whole show and is not allowed to wear asian make-up as a bar-girl?

And vice versa, is an Asian actor playing Piangi in Phantom not allowed to do a meditteranean accent/make-up, like every actor does?

The Engineer is half white, so why do the Asian actors who play the role not tone down/half their asian features with make-up?



Double agenda if you ask me.

Updated On: 3/26/16 at 06:20 PM