Sondheim and Ives' HERE WE ARE at The Shed- Page 55

[EDSOSLO858]

Posted: 11/26/23 at 2:02pm

Hearing the initial Lyceum rumors might actually come to fruition next season after My Son's a Queer ends its limited run. 

[EDSOSLO858]

Posted: 11/26/23 at 2:02pm

(double post)

[djoko84]

Posted: 11/26/23 at 11:10pm

Let's be honest. If Sondheim's name wasn't attached to it, no one would be saying anything remotely good about it. Just because it's Sondheim, people on here have to find something good to write even if it's minuscule. I didn't like it. There you go.

[PipingHotPiccolo]

Posted: 11/26/23 at 11:18pm

As someone who didnt care for it all that much, allow me to firmly reject the idea that this has no merit independent of Sondheim's name. Its ridiculous because he DID write these songs, and so they are inherently clever even if someone had just stumbled upon them without knowing who wrote the words. i think what you could say is that without "The Last Sondheim Show" this would have been retooled significantly more, without any self-consciousness about revising what Sondheim had contributed. And CERTAINLY you would not have gotten this cast to sign on, which is part of what was so dang wonderful about the whole thing.

[devonian.t]

Posted: 11/27/23 at 12:43am

It would be great to record this to add to the archive of Passion, Sunday and Into the Woods videos.

[JasonC3]

Posted: 11/27/23 at 4:58am

djoko84 said: "Let's be honest. If Sondheim's name wasn't attached to it, no one would be saying anything remotely good about it. Just because it's Sondheim, people on here have to find something good to write even if it's minuscule. I didn't like it. There you go."

Let's be honest.  You can speculate how this production would be received without Sondheim's name attached to it, but no one really knows.

It's fine not to like the show, but no need to caustically dismiss the opinions of those who do by suggesting they feel obligated to speak positively of it because it is Sondheim.

[dramamama611]

Posted: 11/27/23 at 6:17am

djoko84 said: "Let's be honest. If Sondheim's name wasn't attached to it, no one would be saying anything remotely good about it. Just because it's Sondheim, people on here have to find something good to write even if it's minuscule. I didn't like it. There you go."

Oh, look, we've found the little boy stating that the emporer has no clothes.

You're allowed to not like it. But don't be dismissive of everyone else opinions. I'm perfectly capable of forming my own opinion. 

[PegasusOasis]

Posted: 11/29/23 at 5:46pm

OK I loved this. Went in with low expectations and was thrilled. The set + Bobby + Rachel in Act 2 were giving Eric McCormack and Laura Bell Bundy in The Cottage.

Fritz and the Soldier's duet reminded me of "Fight For Me" from Heathers. IDK why, the tune I think. Micaela Diamond was iconic. Is her character written as a champagne socialist in the movies? It seemed very Brooklyn DSA 2016 but perhaps is a timeless stereotype.

Whenever they said "Square One"

Updated On: 11/29/23 at 05:46 PM

[EricMontreal22]

Posted: 11/29/23 at 8:46pm

Jordan Catalano said: "I’m starting to worry we won’t get a cast recording."

Surely not possible.  I mean we got a cast album for Bounce (granted that was at the time when PS Classics wanted to have a cast album of every single Sondheim work as part of their catalogue...)

[EricMontreal22]

Posted: 11/29/23 at 8:50pm

bear88 said about the Brantley opinion piece:

"The whole piece had a strange, scolding tone - criticizing people for appreciating Sondheim for the wrong reasons. Is that even true?"

I got *exactly* this feeling from his sour piece.  Also, after all this time and countless revivals, does he still not understand what the song No One Is Alone is saying?

 

[TarHeelAlan]

Posted: 12/1/23 at 2:57pm

I'll be attending this show Jan 2. First time at The Shed. Couple of questions for those who have been there:

1. Any recommendations in the immediate area for an early dinner? One of the restaurants at Jose Andres Little Mercado? (Very convenient, and we know his food from his DC restaurants.) Ci Siamo (Good reputation, albeit pricey. How long a a walk is it from restaurant to the theatre?)  Some other place?

2. When the show is over, how easy/difficult is it to get a cab or an Uber/Lyft back up Times Square area?

Thanks in advance. 

 

[RippedMan]

Posted: 12/1/23 at 3:09pm

Trying to see the Dec 16 matinee but also don’t want to pay and arm and a leg. Flying in from out of state. How easy was the rush? Or should I just suck it up and pay?

[Bill Snibson]

Posted: 12/1/23 at 3:38pm

TarHeelAlan said: "I'll be attending this show Jan 2. First time at The Shed. Couple of questions for those who have been there:

1. Any recommendations in the immediate area for an early dinner? One of the restaurants at Jose Andres Little Mercado? (Very convenient, and we know his food from his DC restaurants.) Ci Siamo (Good reputation, albeit pricey. How long a a walk is it from restaurant to the theatre?) Some other place?

2. When the show is over, how easy/difficult is it to get a cab or an Uber/Lyft back up Times Square area?

Thanks in advance.

"

Mercado is great and is just below the Shed. If you want to stroll down 10th Avenue, Bottino is very cute and offers good Italian. 

Cabs on 10th will be readily available but you could also easily jump on the 7 train at Hudson Yards and take it one stop to Times Square

[ColorTheHours048]

Posted: 12/1/23 at 3:57pm

TarHeelAlan said: "Any recommendations in the immediate area for an early dinner? One of the restaurants at Jose Andres Little Mercado? (Very convenient, and we know his food from his DC restaurants.) Ci Siamo (Good reputation, albeit pricey. How long a a walk is it from restaurant to the theatre?) Some other place?

"

Ci Siamo is my favorite restaurant in the city. It’s a little pricey, but 100% worth it: excellent waitstaff, delicious food and drinks, and even a free glass of port wine if you take the elevator up. If you’re making a night of it, that would be my recommendation. Plus it’s right near The Shed.

[uncageg]

Posted: 12/1/23 at 4:34pm

EricMontreal22 said: "bear88 said about the Brantley opinion piece:

"The whole piece had a strange, scolding tone - criticizing people for appreciating Sondheim for the wrong reasons. Is that even true?"

I got *exactly* this feeling from his sour piece. Also, after all this time and countless revivals, does he still not understand what the song No One Is Alone is saying?"

 

I did not get a scolding tone from this piece and found what he said about those lyrics to be pretty much on target. What I got from the piece is that there was/is a distinction to Sondheim's works that we may not experience again for a long time. (Fosse immediately came to my mind)  And as mentioned in the piece, it could possibly be Miranda. (Although for me, I prefer Tesori but get why he sees Miranda possibly achieving the "passionate cult" that Sondheim has)

I found the piece to be almost a love letter to Sondheim and his work. JMO

 

[berniesb!tch]

Posted: 12/1/23 at 5:11pm

uncageg said: "EricMontreal22 said: "bear88 said about the Brantley opinion piece:

"The whole piece had a strange, scolding tone - criticizing people for appreciating Sondheim for the wrong reasons. Is that even true?"

I got *exactly* this feeling from his sour piece. Also, after all this time and countless revivals, does he still not understand what the song No One Is Alone is saying?"



I did not get a scolding tone from this piece and found what he said about those lyrics to be pretty much on target. What I got from the piece is that there was/is a distinction to Sondheim's works that we may not experience again for a long time. (Fosse immediately came to my mind) And as mentioned in the piece, it could possibly be Miranda. (Although for me, I prefer Tesori but get why he sees Miranda possibly achieving the "passionate cult" that Sondheim has)

I found the piece to be almost a love letter to Sondheim and his work. JMO

"

 

I agree I just read the article and expected a lot worse based off everyone's comments. I am not a fan of Brantley but found the article to be quite touching and thought he made some interesting insight. 

Also, I don't think Brantley's comments on loneliness negate anything said in "No One is Alone", one can not be alone and still feel loneliness. I think that's what makes so much of his work so beautiful as Brantley mentioned - so many of his characters are in some form of community, but still can't see the forest for the trees in their feelings of isolation. 

 

[Kad]

Posted: 12/2/23 at 9:34am

Finally saw this last night. It's probably the only Sondheim show for which I feel the book outshines the score, which I found to largely sound like motifs from Road Show with glimmers of Sunday. However, the lyrics are easily Sondheim's funniest- actually laugh out loud funny, which is something I know he himself would say was never his strength. Ives' book is probably one of his best pieces of writing.

Rachel Bay Jones is giving a brilliant turn and David Hyde Pierce is perfect casting for the Bishop. Everybody is very strong- with my main caveat being Denis O'Hare, who is over the top in a different way than everyone else, particularly in act 2.

The piece is clearly unfinished regardless of what Ives and Mantello say and what we have is best efforts to make the show work without Sondheim. I don't know that anybody can fairly assess the show right now because Sondheim's death and what we know about the show's development loom so large over the piece. I'll be very curious to see what people say years in the future. Right now it seems to me the show represents what we lost and what we could've had more than anything else.

[MezzA101]

Posted: 12/2/23 at 10:57am

Bottom banner ad on front page of tomorrow's A&L:  Final seven weeks.

[EricMontreal22]

Posted: 12/2/23 at 1:53pm

berniesb!tch said: "uncageg said:
I did not get a scolding tone from this piece and found what he said about those lyrics to be pretty much on target. What I got from the piece is that there was/is a distinction to Sondheim's works that we may not experience again for a long time. (Fosse immediately came to my mind) And as mentioned in the piece, it could possibly be Miranda. (Although for me, I prefer Tesori but get why he sees Miranda possibly achieving the "passionate cult" that Sondheim has)

I found the piece to be almost a love letter to Sondheim and his work. JMO

"



I agree I just read the article and expected a lot worse based off everyone's comments. I am not a fan of Brantley but found the article to be quite touching and thought he made some interesting insight.

Also, I don't think Brantley's comments on loneliness negate anything said in "No One is Alone", one can not be alone and still feel loneliness.
"

I didn't find the entire piece like a scold--just parts.  He didn't seem to approve of how some fans have reacted to Sondheim's passing (and, y'know, I've been guilty of this too as I see an ever increasing number of fans suddenly crawl out of the woodwork.) 

But...  "Surely, he would have cocked an eyebrow at his apotheosis as the warm and comforting spirit guide that seemed to materialize at that recent performance of “Into the Woods.”

Surely?  I am not so sure he would--in the last decade (if not longer) of his life, Sondheim was approving more and more productions of his work that he wouldn't have before, simply because he was happy that there was the interest and to have them done AND he would cry because he was so moved at the drop of a pin (he was always known as a crier, of course--infamously ruining Dorothy Hammerstein's fur while watching Carousel, but...) 

As for No One is Alone, Brantley writes: "When he writes, “No one is alone,” it hurts so much precisely because we sense that it is ultimately a falsehood."

This is where I feel Sondheim would object.  He wrote that song, or so Sondheim would always claim, completely for the context of the show.  And the context of the song in the show is that no one is "truly" alone--in that just as we may gain strength realizing that we are not alone--and community, a big theme in ITW, can give us strength, the thoughts and, yes, people we who are against us also aren't alone in their actions and beliefs.  That's simplifying it, of course, but I'm not seeing where the falsehood in the lyrics here are that Brantley sees?

[EricMontreal22]

Posted: 12/2/23 at 2:03pm

Kad said: "Finally saw this last night. It's probably the only Sondheim show for which I feel the book outshines the score, which I found to largely sound like motifs from Road Show with glimmers of Sunday.

[...]
The piece is clearly unfinished regardless of what Ives and Mantello say and what we have is best efforts to make the show work without Sondheim. I don't know that anybody can fairly assess the show right now because Sondheim's death and what we know about the show's development loom so large over the piece. I'll be very curious to see what people say years in the future. Right now it seems to me the show represents what we lost and what we could've had more than anything else."

Thanks for this thoughtful post--one I think that, a month later anyway--I pretty much agree with (including David Hare's performance in Act II--even if I get that having him act stylistically so differently is surely just what was asked of him.)

I agree with you about the music and lyrics--it's funny as I always felt like Bounce/Road Show largely sounded derivative of past Sondheim works, even if I couldn't quite place them (of course it was his only score where he admitted to--in two instances--re-using trunk song music, which makes me wonder if he did here as well.)  Of course this isn't unexpected in a composer who is 70+ even when they're Sondheim (Sondheim of course always liked to claim that most great creators peak in their 40s...)  But that was even more true here--I also, like most I guess, heard bits of Road Show, some of the Sunday Day Off, plus in the romantic song a LOT of Passion though some of that may have been the piano line in Tunick's orchestration.)

I do firmly believe that late in his life Sondheim DID *ok* the idea to do Act II mostly without songs--from the reports he was really stuck (for years) on composing for that act, and Ives and Mantello apparently did get the OK from him for this compromise.  But of course, as everyone also has said, Sondheim worked best when he had a firm deadline and was often inspired to write his best work in workshop and previews when he saw the work on stage, and the performers embodying the characters and I have no doubt he would have realized where songs were needed.

[Kad]

Posted: 12/2/23 at 2:11pm

Oh, I also believe Sondheim endorsed the idea of a second act without much music, or at least without conventional songs. In many ways, doing so is a culmination of an artistic career that embraced testing the bounds of traditional musical structure, going all the way back to Anyone Can Whistle and peaking with his works with Lapine (and then of course, entirely rejecting a second act at all with Assassins, Passion, and the final iteration of Road Show). 

[Kad]

Posted: 12/2/23 at 2:18pm

I guess in some ways the experience of the second act is not unlike how some may feel seeing new musicals: trapped in a room, waiting for beautiful music that doesn’t come. 

[EricMontreal22]

Posted: 12/2/23 at 2:25pm

Kad said: "Oh, I also believe Sondheim endorsed the idea of a second act without much music, or at least without conventional songs. In many ways, doing so is a culmination of an artistic career that embraced testing the bounds of traditional musical structure, going all the way back to Anyone Can Whistle and peaking with his works with Lapine (and then of course, entirely rejecting a second act at all with Assassins, Passion, and the final iteration of Road Show)."

Beautifully said.  (Which reminds me I know someone who saw it who was SO upset the program didn't have a song listing and--very oddly--claimed Sondheim would have been offended.  He refused to believe me that Sondheim made sure that Passion had no song listings in the program either, although, I admit, the songs in Here We Are are much more isolated songs than much of the score for Passion is...)

 

[matty159]

Posted: 12/3/23 at 9:14am

Maybe because it is a rainy day here in the city, but easily just snagged a center Row C single for the matinee today through TT rush for $40.  It’s a $350 seat.  Insane.  I can’t wait to revisit this.  So, don’t believe the caveat on TT that rush is partial view only.  I’ve seen other posters have had similar luck too.

[inception]

Posted: 12/3/23 at 10:28am

I don't think this turned out to be a hot ticket, and they overpriced themselves.  All these reports of people getting great seats through rush just makes me feel like a chump for buying early.