Sondheim and Ives' HERE WE ARE at The Shed- Page 54

[TotallyEffed]

Posted: 11/22/23 at 1:13pm

CATSNYrevival said: "StylishCynic said: "I wonder if they'll do a surprise album release on the day after Thanksgiving to commemorate Sondheim. Or, would that be in poor taste? I can't decide."

What would be the significance? How is it a commemoration the day after Thanksgiving? I don't understand."

 

Sondheim died the day after Thanksgiving.

[JasonC3]

Posted: 11/22/23 at 2:18pm

Even more powerful and enjoyable seeing it the second time.

Updated On: 11/22/23 at 02:18 PM

[StylishCynic]

Posted: 11/22/23 at 2:25pm

CATSNYrevival said: "StylishCynic said: "I wonder if they'll do a surprise album release on the day after Thanksgiving to commemorate Sondheim. Or, would that be in poor taste? I can't decide."

What would be the significance? How is it a commemoration the day after Thanksgiving? I don't understand."

Sondheim died the day after Thanksgiving 2021. While releasing the album this Friday wouldn't exactly mark the day of his death because of the shifting dates around Thanksgiving, I could see it aligning with the show's strategy to "give us something new" in "thanks" and memory of Sondheim by releasing his final music + lyrics on Friday (of course, barring the release of any standalone future trunk songs).

[rosscoe(au)]

Posted: 11/22/23 at 10:41pm

Any chance this may extend again? I don’t get into the city till either the end of January or around the 5th of February. I missed it in October. 

[dramamama611]

Posted: 11/22/23 at 11:05pm

Anything is possible, but I haven't heard any whispers. Hope you get to see it. 

[rosscoe(au)]

Posted: 11/23/23 at 7:49pm

dramamama611 said: "Anything is possible, but I haven't heard any whispers. Hope you get to see it."

I hope so too, the chance of this being staged in Australia is next to nothing. 

[sondheim94]

Posted: 11/23/23 at 8:47pm

Any word on absences / cast missing performances - planned or unplanned?

Seeing it next Friday and would be devastated not to see Denis OHare, Rachel Bay Jones, and David Hyde Pierce...

[CityofStrangers]

Posted: 11/23/23 at 10:25pm

I'm seeing it in December and am so excited. Would it help to revisit Discreet Charm/Exterminating Angel before going in (it's been a while since I saw either), or should I just go on with my current understanding of the set up? 

[willep]

Posted: 11/24/23 at 1:16am

I’ve never seen either and it did not impede my enjoyment of the show at all.

[JasonC3]

Posted: 11/24/23 at 7:52am

CityofStrangers said: "I'm seeing it in December and am so excited. Would it help to revisitDiscreet Charm/Exterminating Angelbefore going in (it's been a while since I saw either), or should I just go on with my current understanding of the set up?"

Not at all necessary to watch the movies first as it is very easy to understand what is happening in the show as it unfolds.  In fact, I'd suggest not watching them if only to prevent your brain from comparing the two and taking you out of the moment of what is happening on stage.  Watching them after the fact might be a more interesting option.

Updated On: 11/24/23 at 07:52 AM

[binau]

Posted: 11/24/23 at 12:30pm

I would also recommend not watching - it's very interesting to experience a brand new Sondheim world for the very first time. And to be completely surprised at where it goes. 

[bwayphreak234]

Posted: 11/24/23 at 12:42pm

CityofStrangers said: "I'm seeing it in December and am so excited. Would it help to revisitDiscreet Charm/Exterminating Angelbefore going in (it's been a while since I saw either), or should I just go on with my current understanding of the set up?"

I went in with no prior knowledge of the films. I enjoyed being surprised. The show is perfect and profound theatre.

[StylishCynic]

Posted: 11/24/23 at 1:57pm

bwayphreak234 said: "CityofStrangers said: "I'm seeing it in December and am so excited. Would it help to revisitDiscreet Charm/Exterminating Angelbefore going in (it's been a while since I saw either), or should I just go on with my current understanding of the set up?"

I went in with no prior knowledge of the films. I enjoyed being surprised. The show is perfect and profound theatre."

I completely agree. I went in knowing that act I is based on "looking for a place to eat" and act II is "being unable to leave a room after a meal" and that's the perfect amount to know. I still haven't watched the movies, and, from what I gather, the creative team implemented a lot of updates to the characters + plot.

I also was very happy to not know the solution to act II's conundrum :)

[bear88]

Posted: 11/24/23 at 4:55pm

CityofStrangers said: "I'm seeing it in December and am so excited. Would it help to revisitDiscreet Charm/Exterminating Angelbefore going in (it's been a while since I saw either), or should I just go on with my current understanding of the set up?"

As you have seen the films, I don’t think it necessary. My wife said seeing them prepared her for the absurdism and that she enjoyed the he show more as a result - but the downside is that so much knowledge includes a few spoilers. That said, the show and the films are not the same. Knowing the basic setup is enough.

[PipingHotPiccolo]

Posted: 11/24/23 at 6:10pm

this was like an odd little buffet that i was thrilled to attend even though the food on it was hit/miss. i know Ives/Mantello insist the second act was meant to be devoid of music, that the score was mostly finished, but this piece really does feel incomplete. and i know its meant to be absurdist and odd but it also feels redundant at times. im convinced Sondheim would have wanted alot more done here.

THAT SAID how can anyone not enjoy this cast saying these words? Act 1 is infinitely more enjoyable than Act 2, and I thought all of the Act 1 ditties were laugh out loud funny. The insanity of these people trying to find a brunch to eat was just a hoot, and the comedy/lyrical genius is just thru the roof here. Denis O'Hare walks away with his scenes, and Micaela Diamond is given a real Sondheim-esque lyrical nugget that I really hope gets recorded. 

Act 2 was.... slower, and I found myself somewhat bored which feels like an admission of a crime. But if Rachel Bay Jones is a delight in Act 1, she turns in an award-worthy perfect performance in Act 2 that was so utterly moving in a way that was so uniquely HER. She was great in Pippin, and I missed her in Dear Evan Hansen, but shes giving a firmly pitch perfect performance here that is the heart of this weird show. BRAH-vo. (Everyone was great, top notch, this cast is stacked, but Cannavale and Hyde-Pierce should get special mention here, And please give Jin Ha every leading musical role going fwd please, thanks.)

I cant imagine this show working without the bells/whistles of this specific production and with this specific cast, but i sure am glad Ives and Mantello made sure we got to see this. 

[EricMontreal22]

Posted: 11/24/23 at 7:48pm

CityofStrangers said: "I'm seeing it in December and am so excited. Would it help to revisitDiscreet Charm/Exterminating Angelbefore going in (it's been a while since I saw either), or should I just go on with my current understanding of the set up?"

Did you feel the need to watch Smiles of a Summer Night before seeing A Little Night Music for the first time?  Passione d'Amore before seeing Passion?  I mean I know those are different cases--Summer Night is a film that is known at least on the same level as the Bunuel films but Passione was (and remains) pretty hard even to find on video and when Passion premiered the original original source novel, Fosca hadn't yet been published in English (Lapine and Sondheim had a private translation, and then a published version called Passion came out after the musical.)  And actually those two works, at least plot wise, follow the films that inspired them much closer...

But I do find it interesting that so many people are concerned about if you should or shouldn't watch the movies before hand in *this* case.

[djoko84]

Posted: 11/24/23 at 8:43pm

Any chance this will be moving to Broadway this season after its run ends in January?

[ACL2006]

Posted: 11/24/23 at 9:45pm

djoko84 said: "Any chance this will be moving to Broadway this season after its run ends in January?"

it's been strongly rumored to be transferring to Bway in the Spring.

[bear88]

Posted: 11/25/23 at 5:19am

PipingHotPiccolo said: "this was like an odd little buffet that i was thrilled to attend even though the food on it was hit/miss. i know Ives/Mantello insist the second act was meant to be devoid of music, that the score was mostly finished, but this piece really does feel incomplete. and i know its meant to be absurdist and odd but it also feels redundant at times. im convinced Sondheim would have wanted alot more done here.

THAT SAID how can anyone not enjoy this cast saying these words? Act 1 is infinitely more enjoyable than Act 2, and I thought all of the Act 1 ditties were laugh out loud funny. The insanity of these people trying to find a brunch to eat was just a hoot, and the comedy/lyrical genius is just thru the roof here. Denis O'Hare walks away with his scenes, and Micaela Diamond is given a real Sondheim-esque lyrical nugget that I really hope gets recorded.

Act 2 was.... slower, and I found myself somewhat bored which feels like an admission of a crime. But if Rachel Bay Jones is a delight in Act 1, she turns in an award-worthy perfect performance in Act 2 that was so utterly moving in a way that was so uniquely HER. She was great in Pippin, and I missed her in Dear Evan Hansen, but shes giving a firmly pitch perfect performance here that is the heart of this weird show. BRAH-vo. (Everyone was great, top notch, this cast is stacked, but Cannavale and Hyde-Pierce should get special mention here, And please give Jin Ha every leading musical role going fwd please, thanks.)

I cant imagine this show working without the bells/whistles of this specific production and with this specific cast, but i sure am glad Ives and Mantello made sure we got to see this."

A few thoughts:

- Rachel Bay Jones. I think Jones’ performance in this show is one of best I’ve had the privilege to see. The writing is funny and unexpectedly moving, but Jones makes it work so marvelously well. It’s even better in retrospect.

- ‘Incomplete.’ No and yes. This is the show, with director Joe Mantello and book writer David Ives pulling together a stylish piece of theater with what Stephen Sondheim left behind. I didn’t leave unsatisfied, but a part of me - knowing how Sondheim worked in his prime, especially when shows were cast and he was writing for particular actors, wonders if he wouldn’t have been inspired to write a few more songs. There were certainly moments that seemed to call out for songs. But the man was in his 90s by the end; it’s probably too much to expect. 

- Act 1. I don’t think there are any great Sondheim songs in the first act, but he and Ives were working hand in glove in a such a playful way that it didn’t matter. The first act is very funny and ends with David Hyde Pierce stealing the show for a bit before its concluding flourish. Denis O’Hare did a fair amount of show-stealing himself throughout first act.

- Act 2. I concede the second act’s flaws, but it feels like many of them come from a humane place. More importantly, the most memorable parts of the show are in that second act: some fine songs, Jones and a certain animal, the much- praised Jones-Hyde Pierce scene (and its follow-up), an ending that felt right (even if many of the preceding monologues felt unearned).

I’ve read enough odes to the original versions of Sondheim’s musicals that it feels like an incredible gift that we are getting not just a terrific production of Here We Are that I cannot imagine will ever be matched but a revival of Merrily We Roll Along that is the best version of that musical. And I got to see them on consecutive nights. Sometimes you can’t complain. Those were two special evenings.

[KevinKlawitter]

Posted: 11/26/23 at 12:25pm

I caught the matinee yesterday, and my main thoughts are on the thread about my trip, i thought I'd add in my two cents here as well.

First of all, I'm not always a big fan of absurdism or surrealism. Without a strong point of view or direction behind it I often find it risks falling into self-indulgence. In this show its the second act that comes closest to falling into that trap (going from place to place and not being able to get a meal is a lot easier to engage with then people being stuck inside a room and not being able to leave because of some unseen force), but the characters and performances are strong enough that I was still along for the ride. I had originally intended to watch both Exterminating Angel and Discreet Charm before seeing this, but work got in the way so I wasn't able to. But knowing the bare minimum of both acts (as I did) was probably the way to see it.

The music - while I agree there aren't any individual songs that stand out as the next great Sondheim jam, they're all catchy and fun and go a long way towards informing the mood and character of the piece. Also, as I mentioned in the other thread, had I not known beforehand the second act was largely devoid of songs I'm not sure I would have noticed. It starts out with songs, but as the characters fall deeper into despair when they realize they can't escape the room, the music fades away - to quote Jeremy Strong, it works dramaturgically. One final song to wrap it all up would have been nice, but as it stands the division is fine.

Rachel Bay Jones is in many ways the show's secret weapon. For much of the show she feels like a head-in-the-clouds comic relief character, which she plays delightfully. But in the second act she begins to show more layers, and her late night conversation with the Bishop about the nature of being is perhaps the most emotionally moving part of the entire show.

As far as potentially transferring to Broadway, more people being exposed to this show is definitely a good thing, but this production seems so perfectly suited to The Shed that I'm curious what Broadway houses it could move to, or how it would be adapted to them. I'm sure Mantello would be able to make it work but I worry it wouldn't have the same impact.

Overall, I enjoyed the show immensely and will probably be thinking about it for a long time.

[Jordan Catalano]

Posted: 11/26/23 at 12:26pm

I’m starting to worry we won’t get a cast recording. 

[ljay889]

Posted: 11/26/23 at 12:34pm

It's extremely unlikely the final Sondheim won't get recorded. Maybe they are waiting to finalize a transfer first? The Broadway COMPANY transfer not receiving a cast album was truly shocking and upsetting, but it was said to be an issue regarding the contract with the London album's record label. I don't see HWA not getting recorded.

 

In other news, it looks like Brantley hated HWA. 

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/11/25/opinion/sondheim-broadway-revivals.html?smid=nytcore-ios-share&referringSource=articleShare&fbclid=IwAR2vZXvzD81X0VwaK9rfhw61_pnGQU1nA1P24dFC5FmakkhUs11T9P0WLtQ

 it sometimes felt like a thinned-out throwback to “Company,” and the songs emerged in spasmodic spurts of music, which to me suggested death throes.

This is kind of offensive, especially because Sondheim and his collaborators often used a distinct blend of music/singing and dialogue in his songs, especially in his later works. "Putting It Together" being the ultimate example. This didn't bother me at all in HWA, especially because they are some really lovely and fun moments in the score. 

Updated On: 11/26/23 at 12:34 PM

[binau]

Posted: 11/26/23 at 12:56pm

So does it look like a transfer might actually happen now? Any idea if it's the same cast or are they trying to get more 'names'? I must admit, I would still be surprised at the idea of a transfer happening. I personally would not invest if it was just a direct transfer from off-broadway with cast in-tact. But maybe it's more about the prestige than making any money. 

 

[TotallyEffed]

Posted: 11/26/23 at 1:11pm

I’ve heard same names, next fall. Take with a grain of salt, of course.

[bear88]

Posted: 11/26/23 at 1:56pm

ljay889 said: "It's extremely unlikely the final Sondheim won't get recorded. Maybe they are waiting to finalize a transfer first? The Broadway COMPANY transfer not receiving a cast album was truly shocking and upsetting, but it was said to be an issue regarding the contract with the London album's record label. I don't see HWA not getting recorded.



In other news, it looks like Brantley hated HWA.

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/11/25/opinion/sondheim-broadway-revivals.html?smid=nytcore-ios-share&referringSource=articleShare&fbclid=IwAR2vZXvzD81X0VwaK9rfhw61_pnGQU1nA1P24dFC5FmakkhUs11T9P0WLtQ

it sometimes felt like a thinned-out throwback to “Company,” and the songs emerged in spasmodic spurts of music, which to me suggested death throes.

This is kind of offensive, especially because Sondheim and his collaborators often used a distinct blend of music/singing and dialogue in his songs, especially in his later works. "Putting It Together" being the ultimate example. This didn't bother me at all in HWA, especially because they are some really lovely and fun moments in the score."

Brantley’s piece annoyed me, less because he disliked Here We Are (he’s not the only person who was disappointed) but his reasons. Everything, for Brantley, was about Sondheim’s death. Death throes? That’s what you were thinking about during the first act’s lively and clever mix of music and dialogue - something he’s done in many of his shows and still managed to pull off well into his 80s?

And perhaps I’m just unusual, but I haven’t seen every Sondheim musical in person. I have been interested in seeing the ones I have because this current flurry of interest in Sondheim’s work will not last forever, and seeing top-notch casts perform them is something that’s worth my time and money.

The whole piece had a strange, scolding tone - criticizing people for appreciating Sondheim for the wrong reasons. Is that even true?