The IN THE HEIGHTS Film Adaptation Thread- Page 38

[bear88]

Posted: 6/15/21 at 4:38am

Any slim chance of In The Heights staging an unlikely comeback disappeared as the day wore on. Warner Bros. tossed concrete on it, dismissing the idea that its presence on HBO Max hurt the film's box office in any appreciable way.

The post-mortems are already in. It's a plotless musical with no stars, no compelling songs, and no reason to risk COVID-19 to see it. Outside of New York City, Latinos didn't really care. And regular people want sequels, genre films, and franchises, at least those who are showing up at movie theaters now. 

And then just to make matters worse, the colorism controversy turned into enough of a thing that Lin-Manuel Miranda tweeted an abject apology. 

The sad thing for the people who feel strongly about the issue, which I can only assume is a fair critique because Miranda agreed it was, is that the problem with In The Heights is not that it's controversial but that not enough people really cared enough about it at all. Critics gave it positive reviews, the CinemaScore was an A, but it will almost certainly be gone from theaters before it leaves HBO Max on July 11.

Miranda will be back soon enough, promoting his upcoming film Vivo and his directorial debut, Tick Tick Boom. I assume Monday's apology was run past the studios involved with those films, and Disney.

All that's left for the In The Heights film is finger-pointing and damage control.

It's one thing for a film adaptation of an original musical to disappoint at the box office. Expectations struck me as too high anyway given the subject matter. But this seems like a particularly brutal way to go. And today, BroadwayWorld reminds me, is the 13th anniversary of the musical's triumph at the Tony Awards.

[kidbroadway2]

Posted: 6/15/21 at 4:51am

Mrtrobz said: "I feel like all this controversy is only going to hurt the box office of this film even more. I didn't really like the direction of it and didn't really think it was the spectacle people were making it out to be.

I hope going forward we get a very colorful version of Oz and they cast an even mix of people of color where they can."

--

this controversy I doubt played any factor whatsoever in the opening weekend BO, BUT it will trounce any chance it has of Warner Brothers giving it a chance in theaters. Unfortunate. 

Looking at the HBO Max numbers: 30% latino, 22% asian, 1% black. 1%!!! That's crazy. And it was a free movie! The marketing of this was all off. Should have been focused on all the pop songs and making it as Disney/catchy as possible. 

96,000 is just not a great song to market this show with. I'd have focused a ton of promos on "It Won't be Long Now" and "Breathe" possibly even "When You're Home". Why are these videos not even on YouTube yet? That is what will bring people to watch the movie, not 96,000. 

[BWNUT]

Posted: 6/15/21 at 6:13am

I saw people leaving the theater around the 2hour mark. I was tempted too but it seemed like a waste of money. I wish I had cause the last 20 or so minutes were excruciatingly slow and corny.

[gypsy101]

Posted: 6/15/21 at 6:26am

kidbroadway2 said: "- Vanessa Hudgens, Selena Gomezand/or Jennifer Lopez needed to be in this. Jennifer could have played Daniela easily. Again, Daphne was great but that's probably the easiest part to cast with a name. I thought Vanessa was very just ok, and didn't Hudgens play her already in the show WITH Ramos at KC? Neither of the Nina/Vanessa actors made a big enough impact as a Ramos or Hawkins to warrant not casting a name at all.
- Get rid of the entire Dreamers/immigration plot. Was totally unnecessary, not even expanded on correctly and felt like they were just trying to score some political points.
- Put up most if not ALL of the music numbers on YouTube. Only way to generate more hype for the movie AND 96,000 is not even that great a pop song. Put up ALL the pop song numbers - especially the female ballads. (Breathe, It Won't be Long Now, When You're Home)"

i agree with your casting points except for Ramos who is fantastic as Usnavi. having literally zero names at all playing any of the other 3 young characters is criminal. and Jennifer Lopez feels like a no-brainer as Daniela even with how fantastic Daphne was. there is not a single name in this film except Jimmy Smits...and i don't know anyone who would go see a movie for him.

also the Dreamers thing did feel tacked on and went nowhere.

i will disagree re: 96k, it's a fantastic song

i'm not sure exactly what they were hoping for with no stars at all in the film but it would have helped these dismal numbers

[dramamama611]

Posted: 6/15/21 at 7:07am

And if they'd cast more big names, people would bitch and complain about that, too.  Everybody HERE is pointing fingers....MY enjoyment was fulfilled.  Saw it at a sneak preview last month and still paid to see it on the big screen.  Will I pay $ to see it again?  Not likely - but I'm not one to often do that for films anyway.  Do I think offering it on HBO Max along with a studio release is at least partially to blame?  Yup.  I have no idea how they measure the success of that.....I don't know how many films would actually affect any streaming platform's bottom line. (Hamilton likely did - but how many peeps only signed up for a few months of Disney Plus?)

I enjoyed the film, probably a bit more than I did the stage version - is it great art?  Nope.  But it had lots of feels - especially that of joy - and right now, I'll take a big old order of that.

[JasonC3]

Posted: 6/15/21 at 7:29am

Tried to rally a group to go see the film and very few had any interest in the subject matter. Casting, length, and other artistic choices matter little at that point.

I think for a fair percentage of the population, the movie just was not of interest.

I'm reminded of Tom Papa in one of his Netflix comedy specials thanking people for coming out and talking about what a big deal it is to go and do something when it is so much easier to stay home and do nothing.

[Theater_Nerd]

Posted: 6/15/21 at 9:57am

bear88 said: "Any slim chance of In The Heights staging an unlikely comebackdisappeared as the day wore on. Warner Bros. tossed concrete on it, dismissing the idea that its presence on HBO Max hurt the film's box office in any appreciable way.

The post-mortems are already in. It's a plotless musical with no stars, no compellingsongs, and no reason to risk COVID-19 to see it. Outside of New York City, Latinos didn't really care. And regular people want sequels, genre films, and franchises, at least those who are showing up at movie theaters now.

And then just to make matters worse, the colorism controversyturned into enough of a thing that Lin-Manuel Miranda tweeted an abject apology.

The sad thing for the people who feel strongly about the issue, which I can only assume is a fair critique because Miranda agreed it was,is that the problem with In The Heights is not that it's controversial but that not enough peoplereally cared enough about it at all. Critics gave it positive reviews, the CinemaScore was an A, but it will almost certainly be gone from theaters before it leaves HBO Max on July 11.

Miranda will be backsoon enough, promoting his upcoming film Vivo and his directorial debut, Tick Tick Boom. I assume Monday's apology was run past the studios involved with those films, and Disney.

All that's left for the In The Heights film is finger-pointing and damage control.

It's one thing for a film adaptation of an original musical to disappoint at the box office. Expectations struck me as too high anyway given the subject matter.But this seems like a particularly brutal way to go. And today, BroadwayWorld reminds me, is the 13th anniversary of the musical's triumph at the Tony Awards."

Is this we all have to look forward to, sequels, franchises and “tent pole” films? Is that all anyone is interested in seeing these days? 

 

 

[ggersten]

Posted: 6/15/21 at 10:19am

The weaknesses of ITH as a popular movie have not changed over the last decade. It was always going to be a hard sell. I think that was the reason the original proposed film didn't happen with Kenny Ortega as director and a then 35M or so budget. 

I also recall that Jon Chu (and presumably LMM) defended the lack of "names" as not hampering Crazy Rich Asians. But Crazy Rich Asians is a fantasy love story about people many aspire to be - namely rich. That is not ITH which has several stories - not just one - for an audience to follow. I'm not sure a "name" would have changed anything. See, Nine (which is a completely different film (and not a good one) and so a comparison really isnt appropriate other than it is a musical with "names". 

 

 

[fashionguru_23]

Posted: 6/15/21 at 10:21am

I also get the feeling like this was kind of failed from the beginning. I don't remember a clambering noise being made when the casting for the film came out, correct me if I'm wrong?

The people who are mad at Lin for glorifying the Founding Fathers, and making them "nice guys" in Hamilton who think he shouldn't be allowed to create seem to be making a lot of noise about the issue. 

I enjoyed the film. I will agree with the others that it seemed a tad too long, but the run time is usual with a Broadway show. The timeline of it being over multiple days and not the 24/48 hours of the musical didn't help the pacing. Also, I missed Nina's mom. I feel that the "outsider" eye she has, especially with "Enough" really helps the relationship between Nina and her dad. The subplot with the dad and Benny could have easily been kept, because like it was said, that "dreamer" subplot was forced in, and the narration framing with the kids stopped the action from getting at full speed. But I liked it. One of the better movie musicals in a while.

Also, I found it hard to breathe (no pun intended) after "Blackout". When an act one finale hits so high, and the stakes are there, I need a month to catch my breath. Movie musicals don't do enough to seamlessly blend between the two acts. Its just high for a chunk of time between act one finale and act two opener if both numbers are high energy, fast paced piece.

 

[ErmengardeStopSniveling]

Posted: 6/15/21 at 10:43am

We know JLO and Rita Moreno were being courted for Carla and Abuela, and even with her recent spotty b.o. record JLO alone would have been enough to give this a boost. (I'm glad Merediz was in this and not Moreno.)

This is all discouraging for movie-musicals and Latino stories going forward.

It is yet another reminder that "Woke Social Media World" is a tiny bubble that is different from the real world. The numbers speak.

[teddy1996]

Posted: 6/15/21 at 11:15am

if ariana debose didn’t do west side story, she would have made a great vanessa. melissa barrera was very bland as vanessa imo. she lacked so much flavor.

[ErmengardeStopSniveling]

Posted: 6/15/21 at 11:40am

Melissa Barrera is a fierce dancer but that's about where it ends. She was giving an undergrad-level performance alongside pros.

[SporkGoddess]

Posted: 6/15/21 at 12:14pm

From the criticism that I read (so not coming from me - I'm white so I'm deferring to other voices on this topic) - casting Vanessa as darker-skinned would have been better than casting Nina. People were already side-eyeing that Vanessa, who had very light skin, was being upheld as the hottest woman in the neighborhood. 

I agree that she wasn't that great and didn't really have the spark that imo Vanessa needs. Ariana Debose would have been fantastic!

In terms of why this movie failed, I don't agree that we should only make movies that are genre, sequel, or based on franchises. I also wonder how much of ITH's lack of success was its not a very compelling storyline. I've always felt that the storyline was its weakest part.

[52889j]

Posted: 6/15/21 at 1:02pm

Jharrel Jerome as Usnavi and Ciara Renee or Yaya Dacosta as Vanessa could've done wonders.

Updated On: 6/15/21 at 01:02 PM

[Mr.Liir]

Posted: 6/15/21 at 1:48pm

So after reading articles and a lot of comments on this today I have a question for anyone who knows or lives in Washington Heights. Within the Heights, is there any kind of "separation", so to speak, between lighter color Latino residents and darker color residents? I have read here and elsewhere that there is a very large amount darker skin Afro Latinos who reside there. Is there an area where you find mostly lighter skinned Latinos and that is the area represented here? Or did the film just ignore people who are in every part of the community? I have never been to the Heights so this is why I ask. Seeing that Lin wrote the show and had a hand in the movie, does it represent the part of the community he knows or associates with or, again, were people found in the entire community poorly represented?

I live in Washington Heights, and have for years. My grandmother lived in my neighborhood in the 30s... I hope I can provide some context. I'm white, but white, mostly German-Jewish people have lived in the neighborhood since the 30s. Before them it was mostly Irish.  The Dominicans came in the late 70s and, while people think of the heights as primarily Dominican, it's still about 40% white. However, the Heights encompasses a huuuuge part of Manhattan - 155th up to Inwood, and between about 175 - Ft. Tryon Park at 190, there is a huge divide when you cross Broadway. East of Broadway is heavily Dominican (though there are other Latinx people who live in the neighborhood other than Dominican). West is primarily white and pretty Jewish.

I watched the movie, and I don't *care* because it's not my story, but you'd never know that white people live in the Heights (and not just because of gentrification - again, a lot of people and their families have been here since forever). I don't know, when it comes to the Latinx community, if there are ethnicity concentrations in different parts of neighborhood, but if there are, I would chalk that up to people probably living close to their families.  Washington Heights is actually pretty diverse, and you see people all ALL different colors and ethnicities walking around (except maybe Asian people, generally).  

I think it really depends where you are in the Heights. I kind of find it hard to believe since Lin-Manuel Miranda lived in Inwood, but he said when he wrote in the heights he had no idea Jewish people lived there (they literally fled Europe and the rise of Hitler and settled there). I think the original location for the show was 181/Ft.Washington, but that really isn't a Dominican area of the Heights in comparison, so they moved the Bodega and most of their residences east of Broadway for the movie and did most of their shooting (save J. Hood Wright Park and Nina's fire escape) away from Hudson Heights, which is the whiter sub neighborhood of Washington Heights.  To simplify things even more, and probably too much, more white people live off the A/C line and more Dominicans live off the 1 Train.

All of that said, I'm happy to see a movie where there aren't really white people - it's totally fine, haha. We get enough air time. BUT, there definitely are both darker people AND whiter people in the Heights than the movie would lead you to believe if you're not familiar with the Heights. THAT said, I wouldn't say, from my personal observation, that there is a larger population of dark skinned people vs. light skinned Latinx, but there are more than shown in the movie. Apologies if I'm wrong.

I am mostly disappointed about the cutting of Benny's storyline, and knowing some afro-Dominican people, they also seem to be most disappointed in the omission of that important conversation. But there are definitely more shades of brown up here than what you saw in the movie.

Updated On: 6/15/21 at 01:48 PM

[Playbill_Trash]

Posted: 6/15/21 at 2:12pm

I've avoided this behemoth of a thread for a while now because I thought it was going to be filled with nothing but people praising all of Lin's work, repeating the same shining reviews, and not pointing out the obvious flaws in the show's book / movie's screenplay. I'm happy to see that people could see the flaws in the movie, and I don't even know why I expected otherwise. These boards could critique a PB&J sandwich for 50 pages - myself included.

You can obviously tell that Lin has grown immensely as a writer since ITH opened in 2008. The only reason this movie was finally greenlit was the studio banking on the success of Hamilton - they put it in their marketing, logo and all. That's great, I have no problem with pieces being sold on having content "from the mind(s) of..." I honestly don't think any big name stars would have helped or affected the movie at all because frankly at this point, Hamilton as it's own entity is more famous than individual names they could get.

Like people here have stated, the book of the musical ITH was always thin and flawed and was the main critique when the musical opened. We have to remember how the musical got the attention/awards it did in 2008. It was part of an exceptionally weak season. It's competition for Best Musical at the 07/08 Tonys was Xanadu, Passing Strange, and Cry-Baby - in a season that also included a flawed Little Mermaid and underwhelming Young Frankenstein. ITH was the hottest show of the season because it was unfortunately the only passable new musical to open. (I personally liked Young Frankenstein, but I know I'm in the minority). It also gets a lot of credit for being completely original and written for the stage, but we can't forget that it was easy for this show to shine when its competition was so poor. Literally all other three Best Musical nominees closed by the time the next Fall season started.

Which brings me to how this film was approached after the success of Hamilton allowed it to have a second chance. I was excited to see reports of Lin (2018/2019) getting in the weeds of the show with the original book writer and trying to make it the best as it can be for the screen. I remember him posting videos when Fosse/Verdon was airing showing he was fitting viewing parties in between writing sessions for the movie. That was great to see them taking the time to work through the story instead of avoiding the work altogether and throwing it up on screen as is, like we've seen with so many other poor stage to screen adaptations.

That is why I was disappointed with the final cut of this movie. Entirely too long, and everyone behind the scenes should have known that. You would think someone behind the scenes would know how exhausting that is for the audience. Yes, the stage musical is 2.5 hours, but most musicals are. And that is with a 15min intermission, curtain up at 8 and you're out of there around 10:30. It is however a different energy for a movie - film is dead on the screen, theatre is live onstage. I know I'm Monday morning quarterbacking, but I agree with the plotlines listed here that should have been cut. If I were to edit this movie I would cut out:

the protest/bench scene where we find out Sonny is undocumented, Sonny's father's scene, the greencard filing scene, the dinner scene with the added anecdote about Nina getting searched in her dorm, Patrick Page's scene, the lunch scene with Nina and her dad at the diner (maybe), and a couple minutes of the retrospective framing device. That's 7 different scenes, at 2-3 minutes each that could have trimmed 14-21 minutes from the total runtime. That would have made a huge difference on the audience's feeling walking out and it's those types of cuts that I would expect would be in the minds of creatives with experience in the previews/tech/rehearsals processes.

As for the controversy - if the woke mobs want to cancel Lin-Manuel Miranda, the wokiest wokesman they have, who is also doing a hell of a lot more work than the majority of the mob, then they're proving that they just know how to make noise and their right hand doesn't know what their left hand is doing. The View today even talked about the representation backlash, and both Whoopi Goldberg and Ana Navaro made great points and had the best response to the shutdown and educate the loud and outraged. (A clip isn't available to post).

(but what do I know about making cuts, look at how long this post is)

[JBroadway]

Posted: 6/15/21 at 2:46pm

Mr.Liir said: "I think the original location for the show was 181/Ft.Washington, but that really isn't a Dominican area of the Heights in comparison, so they moved the Bodega and most of their residences east of Broadway for the movie and did most of their shooting (save J. Hood Wright Park and Nina's fire escape) away from Hudson Heights, which is the whiter sub neighborhood of Washington Heights. To simplify things even more, and probably too much, more white people live off the A/C line and more Dominicans live off the 1 Train."

 

It's a tricky conversation, because you're right to point out that the area of Washington Heights is significant, and yet, the way it's done both in the show and in the film, it seems to be deliberately unclear where exactly it's supposed to take place in the "universe" of the show. The main intersection used in the film was 175th and Audubon (I was lucky enough to pass through it while the fake storefronts were up - it was extremely fun to see as a long-time fan of the musical) which is East of Broadway, but south of the mostly-Jewish area in the 180s. My girlfriend used to live there, I always got the sense that this area was more Puerto Rican rather than Dominican, but I might be wrong. 

However, just because they filmed at 175th and Audubon doesn't NECESSARILY mean that's where the whole show is meant to take place. As you point out, the line about "Get off at 181st and the take the Escalator" - which remains unchanged for the film - puts us at 181st and Ft. Washington. You say that's a whiter suburban area, but I would call it right on the border. The intersection of Broadway and 181st (just a short block from the Ft. Washington subway entrance that Usnavi mentions) is a busting intersection where I normally see predominately Latino people, many of them dark-skinned). Could we infer that the story is still supposed to take place in that area, but simply wasn't the optimal place to shoot? Stuff like that happens all the time with location filming. 

This is only complicated by the fact that Vanessa lives where the 1 goes above ground - Dyckman Station or above, I guess. But I think that can be easily explained by saying that she walks (probably only about 20 minutes) to work every morning - totally reasonable (I wish I lived a 20 minute walk from work). 

 

@Playbill_Trash - has anyone suggested cancelling Lin Manuel Miranda? Or are they just criticizing him? There's a huge difference, but many people see the latter, and immediately assume it's the former. 

 

[Mr.Liir]

Posted: 6/15/21 at 2:53pm

I think it's easier (aside from the blip about 181 take the escalator - vs the elevator at the other end of the station at 184, for those who aren't familiar) in the show than it is in the movie to have an abstract location. 181 is sort of the main artery up there and views from the street are kind of iconic, but it's also an on-ramp to the highway, so blocking traffic to shoot might have created a logistical nightmare.  I think it's very clear, for those who KNOW Washington Heights, that it was not filmed on 181 and Ft. Washington and east of Broadway (though maybe I'm just assuming too much because I'm so familiar with the area).

[everythingtaboo]

Posted: 6/15/21 at 3:01pm

Lord this thread has become exhausting. I'm reminded of what Mark Harris said when "Love, Simon" came out a few years ago:

"I'm seeing a bit of "Love, Simon doesn't tell my story." Great news: That means you still have the rights to it. It's just a movie, not a minivan. All it has to carry is its own weight."

[Highland Guy]

Posted: 6/15/21 at 3:44pm

I am completely unfamiliar with ITH.  My comment here is based on having seen the trailer last night.

I expected the trailer to mention the "stars" of the film.  Nothing.  I expected the trailer to give some clue as to the story line.  Nothing.  But the trailer DID manage to list Lin-Manuel Miranda's name (at least six times, I believe).

If the trailer leaves me underwhelmed, there is no incentive to watch the actual film.  This is an easy "pass".

Updated On: 6/15/21 at 03:44 PM

[SporkGoddess]

Posted: 6/15/21 at 4:48pm

For people who also think that the storyline/book is the most flawed part of ITH, can you expand on your thoughts? I haven't really seen any discussion about specifics in relation to the movie, and the reviews even from the critics I follow are generally glowing. I remember some of the discussion that this board had back when the show was on Broadway about its book flaws, but it's been years since then. 

Also, count me as someone who was very excited to have the storyline/book reworked for the movie and was very disappointed by the results. Maybe I'm just not a fan of Hudes's writing.  

Updated On: 6/15/21 at 04:48 PM

[woeisme3]

Posted: 6/15/21 at 5:02pm

I don’t doubt there’s some bad faith criticism out there, but I really don’t think everyone is trying to “cancel” Lin (which would never happen anyway). A lot of the people I see talking about the issues start off by saying they love the stage version of In The Heights, including myself. You can point out flaws in things you enjoy (even if I didn’t particularly love the adaptation)

[kidbroadway2]

Posted: 6/15/21 at 5:46pm

The show's main audience was female. It's an absolute failure they never posted the videos for, "It won't be Long Now" or "breathe" on Youtube - the two most "Pop" songs in the show. 

[Wayman_Wong]

Posted: 6/15/21 at 6:05pm

Whoopi Goldberg, Ana Navarro and Sunny Hostin shared their ''View'' to talk about ''In the Heights.'' Navarro and Hostin, who loved the movie and lauded Lin-Manuel Miranda, offered their own spin on the colorism controversy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yMz9P7nJENQ

Updated On: 6/15/21 at 06:05 PM

[Kavana]

Posted: 6/15/21 at 7:16pm

This film was a long commercial and it wasn't to be taken as a masterpiece. It was for theater kids. Ignoring colorism is ppl being ignorant and disrespecting Afro-Latinos/black and brown Americans. Lin is talented but he has continuously benefited from a genre that Brown ppl created and just have one character and that is the representation of them is a slap in the face. 

Why is Usnavi rapping? Who were his rap influences?  Eminem?

The rap/hip hop songs Lin writes from ITH and Hamilton are for those that are uncomfortable or wouldn't listen to a Big Pun, Fat Joe, Daddy Yankee, etc... 

It's his story to tell and you can write your own story but stop acting like there isn't gatekeeping in the Broadway "community" and black/brown Americans can get in the door.