The SWEENEY TODD Film That Could Have Been- Page 2

[TheQuibbler]

Posted: 3/5/23 at 3:04pm

TaffyDavenport said: "After this thread popped up yesterday, I dug out my Blu-ray and watched the whole movie straight through. I'd forgotten how much I love it, particularly the artistry of the production, and I consider it one of Tim Burton's top 5 films, easily. I'm not a hardcore Sweeney aficionado, so everything about it just works for me, and I can understand why Sondheim had such a fondness for it.

https://www.denofgeek.com/movies/sweeney-todd-stephen-sondheim-favorite-movie-musical/"

I like the movie just fine but my biggest hang up with it is how utterly humorless it is. The whole film is so dour and I really miss those brief moments of lightness (typically provided by Lovett).

[BarnabyTucker]

Posted: 3/5/23 at 6:42pm

An early 200s Collin Firth/Emma Thompson film would have been something else.

[BJR]

Posted: 3/5/23 at 7:03pm

BarnabyTucker said: "Thanks everyone for taking the time to respond! I do remember Cyndi Lauper being thrown around for the Doyle production and that being the rumor at the time.
 

I guess she auditioned and really blew them away. As Cyndi tells it, they had already offered it to Patti, on her birthday. Not sure why they would be auditioning if the offer was out, but that's what Cyndi said near the time.

I always thought it was a bummer she didn't replace in it.

 

[ErmengardeStopSniveling]

Posted: 3/5/23 at 7:03pm

nasty_khakis said: "I always heard Meryl had to basically choose between Sweeney and Mamma Mia and she was in a place where she wanted to have fun filming in the islands vs in a cold dark soundstage in London."

An undeniably smart move. Mamma Mia is, along with Devil Wears Prada, the thing that solidified Meryl as demigod, especially for a younger generation (and helped make her a capable box office player too).

[MysteriousLady]

Posted: 3/5/23 at 7:37pm

NOWaWarning said: "Based on what she said interviews, it seems Burton really kept HBC on a short leash and made her play everything as small and as sleepy as she did. I bet her Lovett would have been a lot more interesting and successful had she been able to follow her instincts."

A shame because on paper a Bonham Carter Lovett sounds wonderful; her husband completely sabotaged her performance by directing her to underplay; not only were her vocals poor but so was her acting. 

 

[BroadwayNYC2]

Posted: 3/5/23 at 7:53pm

HBC and Burton were never married.

 

Lupone as Lovett remains the most puzzling performance I’ve ever seen. I left that show so puzzled by her choices. The first time I’ve ever questioned the allure of Lupone. 

[Ke3]

Posted: 3/5/23 at 8:27pm

HBC and Burton were never married but she referred to him as her husband a lot, often humourously correcting herself afterwards.

I think the thing that always makes her performance awkward to me is that you can feel the underplay. It would be easier for me if I didn't feel like she keeps giving glimpses of something different and then turning a corner randomly.

[jimmycurry01]

Posted: 3/6/23 at 9:58pm

BroadwayNYC2 said: "HBC and Burton were never married.



Lupone as Lovett remains the most puzzling performance I’ve ever seen. I left that show so puzzled by her choices. The first time I’ve ever questioned the allure of Lupone."

That entire production was puzzling, though I saw it on tour with Judy Kaye as Lovett and much of the Broadway cast reprising their supporting roles. Many of Doyle's choices left me scratching my head. I'm still perplexed by the white baby coffin.

As for the film, I love it for what it is. If I want the rich baritone vocals for Sweeney, I have three other options in young Hearn, old Hearn, and Terfel. If I'm craving an over-the-top comedic Lovett, I have Landsbury and broad comedic strokes of LuPone for those big laughs, and there's always the joy of watching Emma Thompson. Still, I greatly enjoy what Depp and Bonham Carter do bring to their roles. With four different (legally obtained) versions available to watch, I'm not to terribly concerned with what could have been, but am very happy with all that I have. Listening to the various recordings and radio broadcasts throughout the years, I can assure everyone that we could do far worse than Depp and Bonham Carter (I also had the great misfortune of seeing David Hess lumber around the stage as Sweeney Todd).

[ErmengardeStopSniveling]

Posted: 3/6/23 at 10:01pm

People around here really love to split the smallest hairs when it comes to SWEENEY, huh? I wonder if HBC and Burton's children gave Tommy Kail the idea to cut the whistle?

[Valentina3]

Posted: 3/6/23 at 11:31pm

Olivia Colman would have made for a phenomenal Lovett in the movie. Don't think she was a big enough name (or a name at all) back in those days though.

[Idiot]

Posted: 3/6/23 at 11:52pm

I don't know that it would matter much who you cast as long as the director thought that toning down the humor was a good idea.  Sweeney is my favorite show and I loathe what Burton did to it.  Oh, Frank Oz.  Where were you when we needed you?

[g.d.e.l.g.i.]

Posted: 3/7/23 at 12:00am

Idiot said: "Oh, Frank Oz. Where were you when we needed you?"

Given the timeframe, either still smarting from the Stepford Wives remake tanking or getting ready to do the original version of Death at a Funeral.

[broadwaybabywannabe2]

Posted: 3/7/23 at 10:14am

g.d.e.l.g.i. said: "Apparently, of all directors to nose around the project, Kevin Smith (yes,thatKevin Smith... "Silent Bob" Kevin Smith...) was interested, but when the studio told him they were looking into Tim Burton, he demurred because he got why they'd choose him and the film buff within him was more interested in what a BurtonSweeney Toddwould look like.

For a glimpse at the Smith version that could have been, check out this charming sequence fromJersey Girl, performed (in part) by Ben Affleck and Liv Tyler, with a cameo from the late George Carlin as an unlucky victim and the charming Betty Aberlin as the abashed school principal:

 

who knew Ben Affleck could sing?...wow

 

 


Honestly? I like it."

 

 

[ErmengardeStopSniveling]

Posted: 3/7/23 at 10:28am

Would have been fun to see a real sicko’s take. Cronenberg, de Palma, David Lynch, Paul Verhoeven.

Kubrick in the 80s or 90s feels like the obvious prestige choice. 

[Kad]

Posted: 3/7/23 at 11:06am

Valentina3 said: "Olivia Colman would have made for a phenomenal Lovett in the movie. Don't think she was a big enough name (or a name at all) back in those days though."

Coleman would be an amazing Lovett, acting wise! But she arguably would’ve read too young back for the movie in 2007- she’s only 49 now. 
 

Visually, the Burton film is on point. The stylized aesthetics work very well (especially the copious blood). I even think the supporting cast is uniformly good. It’s Depp and Bonham Carter who are the trouble. 

[The Rural Juror]

Posted: 3/7/23 at 11:48am

While I'd like to see many of the alternative suggestions posted here, I think the Sweeney movie is one of the most successfully executed stage-to-screen musical adaptations of the millennium (and easily in contention for the best of the 2000-2010 decade). Sure, a lot of the cast can barely handle the score, but they are all on an even playing field in that matter. The songs are re-orchestrated to the cast's strengths so no one comes across poorly. Unlike say Les Miserables, Nine, and Phantom where the actual singers are blowing everyone else off the screen, all the actors work well here. And so many movie musicals fail in that regard. 

That being said, I'd be very interested in a new adaptation taken in a completely different stylistic direction. 

[ErmengardeStopSniveling]

Posted: 3/8/23 at 2:48pm

Kad said: "Coleman would be an amazing Lovett, acting wise! But she arguably would’ve read too young back for the movie in 2007- she’s only 49 now."

Colman was also persona non grata to most of the general public until 2019 when she won her Oscar for THE FAVOURITE.

[Sutton Ross]

Posted: 3/8/23 at 2:56pm

Yeah, that's not true at all. Everyone knew her and loved her in Peep Show and Fleabag among many, many, many more tv shows and films. 

 

 

[Kad]

Posted: 3/8/23 at 3:19pm

Sutton Ross said: "Yeah, that's not true at all. Everyone knew her and loved her in Peep Show andFleabag among many, many, many more tv shows and films."

She was absolutely an established and respected actor but was hardly the worldwide celebrity she has since become. Her work was largely best known in the UK. It was the one-two combo of The Favourite and series two of Fleabag that brought her international attention. 

[mememe]

Posted: 3/9/23 at 12:32pm

BroadwayNYC2 said: "HBC and Burton were never married.



Lupone as Lovett remains the most puzzling performance I’ve ever seen. I left that show so puzzled by her choices. The first time I’ve ever questioned the allure of Lupone."

The worst thing that ever happened to Patti Lupone was David Mamet. 
 

Both are ego maniacs but he is the smarter, and manipulative. He is so obsessed with his own writing, that he believes wholeheartedly in his style of directing (which is to have the actors barely  emote at all, in pursuit of never upstaging the words) being absolutely and utterly, the ultimate in terms of acting technique.

Lupone is desperate to be treated as (what she deems to be) a ‘serious actor’. She will tell anyone that sits still long enough to listen, that she was a well rounded, and craft adept actor before Evita made everyone see her as a ‘blonde, fascist tap-dancer’ and she was the perfect candidate for Mamet’s style. She was taken in hook, line and sinker because he gave her the praise as an actor, that she craved, and in return she submitted to his style and was brainwashed into believing that she was transformative. 
 

When she embraces her inner powerhouse, and uses her own personality and energy as a jumping off point (like any intelligent actor) she is on fire. But all too often she is so determined to show she can act, that in powerhouse roles, she recoils from big, and high energy and does what she thinks is thoughtful, role redefining, truthful interpretation. And it’s deadly. 
 

I love her. I think she is capable of being incredible but when she falls into the trap, described above she is dire. 
 

Her Mrs Lovett for Doyle was wrong headed in almost every aspect. There are parts of the Gypsy recording I can’t get through, her line reading of ‘If I die it won’t be from sitting’ is so embarrassingly bad I cringe. 
 

But when she finds the similarities between herself and the character, and they marry…she is scintillating.

Her Lovett in the concert production is camp and overblown, but if finessed and filtered would have been a much better direction to go in 

[The Distinctive Baritone]

Posted: 3/9/23 at 4:37pm

I also disliked LuPone's performance in the Doyle production, which was a strange 180 from her more traditional (and rather good) take on the role in the NY Philharmonic concert a few years prior. I always chalked it up to Doyle's direction. I kind of hated most aspects of that production, actually...

[g.d.e.l.g.i.]

Posted: 3/9/23 at 4:45pm

All things considered, once it left the Watermill, there was no reason to keep the actor/musician shtick beyond gimmickry. I don't think "actors as orchestra" further illuminated the material, and I feel the underlying idea could have worked better -- and been more evident to the audience -- without the overlay of that conceit. (As is the case with many pieces on which he's imposed the actor-musician approach. It's almost as though he either lacks confidence in the strength of his ideas on their own or feels inextricably tied to the most comfortable method, given his origins.)

I mean, think about it. Once you learn that it included a framing device establishing the story as a flashback "on a loop" in the traumatized mind of Tobias, confined to an asylum following its events, with his addled brain substituting the people and environment around him for the actual characters, there are interesting places to go, perhaps drawing from the style, tone, and design of Marat/Sade, for instance. You could even have the framing device seemingly go out of control during "City on Fire!", with the asylum inmates breaking the fourth wall and scattering out among the audience, mirroring the chaos of that point in the second act.

Instead, we got Patti showing off her long-buried tuba skills...

[The Scorpion]

Posted: 3/9/23 at 4:49pm

mememe said: "BroadwayNYC2 said: "HBC and Burton were never married.




The worst thing that ever happened to Patti Lupone was David Mamet.


[...]

Her Mrs Lovett for Doyle was wrong headed in almost every aspect. There are parts of the Gypsy recording I can’t get through, her line reading of ‘If I die it won’t be from sitting’ is so embarrassingly bad I cringe.


But when she finds the similarities between herself and the character, and they marry…she is scintillating.

Her Lovett in the concert production is camp and overblown, but if finessed and filtered would have been a much better direction to go in"

I actually much preferred LuPone in the Doyle production. I found her Lovett in the concert production OTT, embarrassing, and aping Lansbury (with an utterly bizarre accent to boot). Also, I don't think that interpretation works at all in the context of Doyle's production, where she was dark and sexy. I did ask her though about the difference in the interpretation and she said it was all down to how she was directed.

Re LuPone and Mamet, this is O/T but does anyone know what has happened to their relationship? She used to talk about him all the time but now they're politically very misaligned and I can't see that having done much for the relationship.