Tonya Pinkins' Open Letter to Jesse Green- Page 2

[LarryD2]

Posted: 11/14/22 at 10:24am

As with everything Tonya writes, there's a handful of compelling points, an even larger sprinkling of truly ludicrous accusations, a series of "facts" she's invented from whole cloth, with everything anchored in her own convictions and biases. When she takes pen to paper, she often comes across as her own worst enemy. 

[BWayBabe]

Posted: 11/14/22 at 12:41pm

I like Tonya. She does good work and has been a theater actor for years. But I hope she realizes two things can be true at once. And in this case, the two truths are:

1. There needs to be more diversity in theater criticism especially when examining works by people of color.

2. Robert O'Hara completely butchered this production of A Raisin in The Sun. Anyone who knows the play, regardless of their background, will have something to say about his odd choices. Jesse is not alone.

[The Distinctive Baritone]

Posted: 11/14/22 at 1:46pm

That essay is...something else. She makes some good points but...well I'll just stop there.

That said...what the hell were they thinking sending a white critic to review this production? If it was anything less than a rave people were bound to get upset. And old white dudes like Jesse Green are not the target audience for this show. Maybe the NYT needs to stop having a "chief critic" and just send the most appropriate person for each production.

[EllieRose2]

Posted: 11/14/22 at 2:22pm

In my opinion, this is a great letter. There needs to be more female and poc theater critics. Green had no business reviewing it since he will never fully understand it. 

[Kad]

Posted: 11/14/22 at 3:02pm

EllieRose2 said: "In my opinion, this is a great letter. There needs to be more female and poc theater critics. Green had no business reviewing it since he will never fully understand it."

But if he had given it a rave, Pinkins would not have written this essay. Would she have accepted a negative review from Maya Phillips? I somehow doubt it.

[fashionguru_23]

Posted: 11/14/22 at 3:08pm

Kad said: "EllieRose2 said: "In my opinion, this is a great letter. There needs to be more female and poc theater critics. Green had no business reviewing it since he will never fully understand it."

But if he had given it a rave, Pinkins would not have written this essay. Would she have accepted a negative review from Maya Phillips? I somehow doubt it."

I agree, Kad. 

[LarryD2]

Posted: 11/14/22 at 3:14pm

Greater diversity in theater criticism doesn't mean only Black people reviewing plays by Black authors, queer people reviewing plays by queer authors, and so forth. The idea that only someone from a certain "in group" can fully understand a play, and is thus qualified to review it, is a dangerous and illiberal perspective.

Updated On: 11/14/22 at 03:14 PM

[Sutton Ross]

Posted: 11/14/22 at 3:22pm

EllieRose2 said: "In my opinion, this is a great letter. There needs to be more female and poc theater critics. Green had no business reviewing it since he will never fully understand it."

100%. And just ignore the people making dumb assumptions and asinine generalizations on other critics. 

 

[verywellthensigh]

Posted: 11/14/22 at 3:54pm

Agreed we need more female and BIPOC critics, but "You can't review this play because you're white" is one of the idiotically online takes I think I have ever heard.

[RippedMan]

Posted: 11/14/22 at 4:01pm

It kind of goes back to "only people of disability can portray a person with a disability, etc" when can a critic just critique? Can a gay queer critic not review a "straight" play? 

[Kad]

Posted: 11/14/22 at 4:26pm

Worth pointing out that Pinkins herself does not argue for such a position at all. 

[The Distinctive Baritone]

Posted: 11/14/22 at 4:55pm

Kad said: "Worth pointing out that Pinkins herself does not argue for such a position at all."

Yes, but if Jesse Green wasn’t white, this essay would not exist. 

I'm not arguing that only black people should review plays by black playwrights about black issues, gay critics with gay playwrights, etc., but in the age when everyone can publish their own opinion on the internet, the idea that any one critic (even if they write for a major newspaper) is the "authority" on a play's value/meaning/worth etc. is becoming a thing of the past. This is also why award shows ratings are in the toilet - every vote, every review is now more generally recognized as "just one person's opinion." The cat is out of the bag so to speak that there is no such thing as an impartial review, so if a white critic pans a production of, say, A Raisin in the Sun, some people are inevitably going to accuse that critic of racism. And sometimes they will be right - although in this case I think Pinkins' accusations are a bit far fetched. It's just...less problematic to have a critic of color review plays by playwrights of color (and to especially avoid a white male critic reviewing a play by a black female playwright). 

Updated On: 11/14/22 at 04:55 PM

[JSquared2]

Posted: 11/14/22 at 5:04pm

The Distinctive Baritone said: "Kad said: "Worth pointing out that Pinkins herself does not argue for such a position at all."

Yes, but if Jesse Green were white, this essay would not exist.

I'm not arguing that only black people should review plays by black playwrights about black issues, gay critics with gay playwrights, etc., but in the age when everyone can publish their own opinion on the internet, the idea that any one critic (even if they write for a major newspaper) is the "authority" on a play's value/meaning/worth etc. is becoming a thing of the past. This is also why award shows ratings are in the toilet - every vote, every review is now more generally recognized as "just one person's opinion." The cat is out of the bag so to speak that there isno such thing as an impartial review, so if a white critic pans a production of, say,A Raisin in the Sun,some people are inevitably going to accuse that critic of racism. And sometimes they will be right - although in this case I think Pinkins' accusations are a bit far fetched. It's just...less problematic to have a critic of color review plays by playwrights of color (and to especially avoid a white male critic reviewing a play by a black female playwright)."

 

Utterly ridiculous.

 

[LarryD2]

Posted: 11/14/22 at 5:06pm

If Maya Phillips had written a similarly negative review, there would be an essay from Tonya about how she was a self-hating Black woman who is upholding white supremacy. That’s just who she is. 

[CarlosAlberto]

Posted: 11/14/22 at 6:24pm

¡Aiy Dios mio! I go away for a couple of days and this is what happens?!?!

[PipingHotPiccolo]

Posted: 11/14/22 at 6:38pm

Kad said: "Worth pointing out that Pinkins herself does not argue for such a position at all."

I mean I think she comes pretty close; she strongly suggests, if not says outright, that White people (men?) are incapable of appreciating powerful Black women. If thats the case, how could a White critic ever review a play with powerful Black women in it? 

Its all completely deranged. Someone in this thread suggested that Jesse Green is INCAPABLE of understanding it as a White person. Can you imagine saying something in the inverse? And I'm all for a more diverse roster of critics, and I also think criticism in general has become sorta silly in todays Everyone Has An Opinion Day and Age, but if White people aren't capable of understanding this show, should I not bring White members of my family? Should there be productions for White people only? And should all these shows be reviewed by only the appropriate ethnicity/gender/religion?

This silliness gives progressivism such a bad name.

[The Distinctive Baritone]

Posted: 11/14/22 at 8:04pm

JSquared2 said: "Utterly ridiculous.”

I agree. It is ridiculous. But there are A LOT of people who don’t think white people should review BIPOC plays. It gets discussed a lot. I’m surprised more people aren’t making that argument in this thread. I’m really just echoing what I’ve heard (especially during the COVID shutdown/WAYWAT movement in 2020). I see the logic behind it but don’t think that’s necessarily the way to go. 

 

[ManOfLaMuncha]

Posted: 11/14/22 at 9:52pm

https://nypost.com/2022/11/12/lion-king-sign-language-interpreter-keith-wann-says-he-was-fired-for-being-white/

I've been seeing this story in the news for the past couple of days.  Isn't this also racist?

I wonder if Tonya made a call to somebody?

[dan94]

Posted: 11/14/22 at 10:04pm

"In between, no matter how judiciously Hansberry has distributed the play’s attention among the main characters - O’Hara concentrates his prodigious theatrical imagination on Walter Lee." - Green

Pinkins makes some wild statements. She also clearly has a very high opinion of herself. But that quote from Green's review is what it comes down to for me. Like or dislike the production, to see it and walk out talking about Walter Lee, to practically hang your entire review on that statement, shows you were looking for something specific rather than being open to what was presented to you.

Green's writing has gotten incredibly sloppy since he left Vulture. And it is so nice to see someone take him to task. 

His review for Company comes to mind. Paula Vogel and Lynne Nottage heavily insinuating if not outright calling him a misogynist on Twitter comes to mind. I can't really speak to any of the racial politics at play here, but there does seem to be a pattern of behavior. His bias is SCREAMING at this point. No one can be completely non biased, but that is why implicit bias training exists. If he's taken it before, it clearly didn't take effect. 

[VintageSnarker]

Posted: 11/14/22 at 10:59pm

LarryD2 said: "If Maya Phillips had written a similarly negative review, there would be an essay from Tonya about how she was a self-hating Black woman who is upholding white supremacy. That’s just who she is."

https://www.broadwayworld.com/article/Where-Are-All-of-the-Female-Theatre-Critics-20221111

Now I have an excuse to quote this article.

Morisseau noted we all uphold the patriarchy in our own way: "You take a black woman critic, I'm a black woman. That does not mean that they cannot uphold, or even that I cannot uphold, tenets of white supremacy in my work. Because I'm black it doesn't mean I'm free of any residual baggage of being a part of a white supremacist patriarchal culture. I'm not free of that. No one person can be the solution. So, for me, I'm not interested in reviewers just changing optics. I'm interested in changing the whole system of operations."

[pmensky]

Posted: 11/14/22 at 11:16pm

ManOfLaMuncha said: "https://nypost.com/2022/11/12/lion-king-sign-language-interpreter-keith-wann-says-he-was-fired-for-being-white/

I've been seeing this story in the news for the past couple of days. Isn't this also racist?

I wonder if Tonya made a call to somebody?"

I can understand wanting a Black ASL interpreter on this show, but the way TDF dealt with letting the scheduled interpreter go is so unbelievably bumbling. What they should have done was honestly explain the situation to the current interpreter and told him that they would either find another performance of another show for him to interpret to make up for the loss, or they would still pay him for The Lion King performance if they couldn’t find another show for him to work between now and April 24. What would have cost TDF a thousand dollars to keep peace will now cost a heck of a lot more if they lose the lawsuit.

[PipingHotPiccolo]

Posted: 11/14/22 at 11:56pm

dan94 said: "But that quote from Green's review is what it comes down to for me. Like or dislike the production, to see it and walk out talking about Walter Lee, to practically hang your entire review on that statement, shows you were looking for something specific rather than being open to what was presented to you.

Green's writing has gotten incredibly sloppy since he left Vulture. And it is so nice to see someone take him to task."

I disagree with Green all the time (as you note, his review of Company was particularly dismissive and maddening). I may even disagree with him re this production (I haven't seen it, and Pinkins has made the case pretty strongly that I shouldn't bother).

But to take the comment and turn it into a screed against Green's inability to appreciate Black female characters is not only unhinged and immature, its incredibly unfair to Green. PARTICULARLY when, as Pinkins herself notes I think, Green *just last season* welcomed the Caroline revival with a rave review, and kept those accolades coming all the way to Tony season. To say Green missed the mark when he reviewed this show is one thing, to say he isnt capable of reviewing Black-led productions is another, and to imply hes working out of some sort of ignorant animus is another. She's just wrong, through and through, and we can say so. 

 

[CarlosAlberto]

Posted: 11/15/22 at 12:50pm

Yikes, I had to read the letter twice just to process it all. Girlfriend does love going on a tangent. It reads like a total meltdown. Her attempt to "enlighten" Jesse Green dissolved into trying to outright shame him. Her "message" got lost in the word salad.

She did herself, her show and her colleagues a great disservice. 

 

[Playbill_Trash]

Posted: 11/15/22 at 1:07pm

Not sure if the point has already been made but Jesse Green’s clap back should be:

“Tonya, you are correct. Hellen Keller would have enjoyed this production because she wouldn’t have been able to see or hear it.” 

[verywellthensigh]

Posted: 11/15/22 at 2:49pm

Oh, and those blaming "progressives" for this sort of thing...no.  Optics and identity politics are purely a neoliberal hula hoop.  Don't put that on us.