Bad Overtures?

[chrishuyen]

Posted: 10/20/22 at 5:44pm

There's a list of generally agreed upon "best overtures" but do people have examples of what they consider terrible overtures (especially when the score is good)?  I feel like most of them fall into the "serviceable but not that notable" category so wondering what people would consider actively bad.

On the flip side, are there any shows where the score was mediocre but the overture managed to elevate it?

[JSquared2]

Posted: 10/20/22 at 5:49pm

chrishuyen said: "On the flip side, are there any shows where the score was mediocre but the overture managed to elevate it?"

 

Yes -- FUNNY GIRL.

Also MERRILY WE ROLL ALONG

Updated On: 10/21/22 at 05:49 PM

[Bill Snibson]

Posted: 10/20/22 at 8:16pm

Legally Blond had an awful, synthesized overture

[CATSNYrevival]

Posted: 10/20/22 at 8:36pm

Most overtures these days are about 45 seconds long. How can something be actively bad in only 45 seconds?

[Jarethan]

Posted: 10/20/22 at 11:54pm

I thought the Tootsie overture was as bad as it gets.  The real problem was that the score sucked.

Interestingly, re Funny Girl, I remember the original production having a great overture.  I saw Funny Girl last night and was very disappointed with the overture.  Did I remember the original incorrectly?  Was this just  different (and inferior to the original)?  Was the real issue that the orchestra was so thin?  I don't know, but I was disappointed.

Updated On: 10/21/22 at 11:54 PM

[Bill Snibson]

Posted: 10/20/22 at 11:59pm

CATSNYrevival said: "Most overtures these days are about 45 seconds long. How can something be actively bad in only 45 seconds?"

It’s tricky now. Our attention spans are so short that the days of overtures seem gone. Lights out/curtain up/ and start the show! 

[Impeach2017]

Posted: 10/21/22 at 7:21am

Funny Girl set the standard for great overtures that elevated the proceedings substantially.  As for "bad" overtures, the one for Cats comes to mind.  

[binau]

Posted: 10/21/22 at 7:25am

I find the overtures for "Bounce" and "Merrily" to be much more magical than the shows itself. 

[leefowler]

Posted: 10/21/22 at 7:30am

I recently read that Sir Arthur Sullivan went to the trouble of writing his own overture for one of his operettas (he usually left the overture to his assistants.) After opening night, he complained bitterly that everyone talked during it, and he'd never write another one. So, audiences really haven't changed that much!

[¿Macavity?]

Posted: 10/21/22 at 9:13am

Hard to think of a truly bad overture... But for your other question, I think WONDERLAND and GHOST have waaay better overtures than the shows themselves.

[sassylash3s]

Posted: 10/21/22 at 9:23pm

Not "bad", exactly, but I do think that for a show with so many great tunes, it's unfortunate that Hello, Dolly! has never had a great overture. The original production played without one, as I understand it, but there have been a few different versions used in subsequent productions, none of which have been all that great, IMO.

As far as an overture that is better than the score it draws from, I humbly submit the overture from Goodtime Charley.

[chrishuyen]

Posted: 10/26/22 at 1:59pm

In retrospect I'd say I probably have to agree about Funny Girl's overture elevating the score, though I'd say Merrily always had a great score (in many flawed productions) and the overture was really just showcasing it.

ALW overtures are strange because they're pretty much just the instrumental for one song.  It works for Phantom but not sure how well it does otherwise.

[SuttonPeron]

Posted: 10/26/22 at 2:15pm

Jarethan said: "I thought the Tootsie overture was as bad as it gets. The real problem was that the score sucked.

Interestingly, re Funny Girl, I remember the original production having a great overture. I saw Funny Girl last night and was very disappointed with the overture. Did I remember the original incorrectly? Was this just different (and inferior to the original)? Was the real issue that the orchestra was so thin? I don't know, but I was disappointed."

Most likely the awfully thin orchestra. It´s a wonderful overture, beautifully arranged, but you do need a large string and brass sections and at least two percussionists (the keyboard xylo sucks!) for it to shine. This version is my personal favorite:

Funny Girl Broadway Overture (Live in Concert) - YouTube

[blaxx]

Posted: 10/26/22 at 2:28pm

Impeach2017 said: "Funny Girl set the standard for great overtures that elevated the proceedings substantially. As for "bad" overtures, the one for Cats comes to mind."

Not only is the Overture for Cats amazing, it is also one of the best lighting designs for an overture in musical theater history.

[Elibal]

Posted: 10/26/22 at 2:46pm

Probably controversial but Showboat, so many glorious tunes and the overture does a terrible job of selling them. Similarly I don't think I've ever liked a South Pacific overture.

[leefowler]

Posted: 10/26/22 at 5:38pm

I remember Saturday Night Fever not having a very good overture. It was sort of a limp medley of the songs in the show.

[ErmengardeStopSniveling]

Posted: 10/26/22 at 5:47pm

Elibal said: "Probably controversial but Showboat, so many glorious tunes and the overture does a terrible job of selling them."

I so agree. And it’s a wonderful score that deserves a better overture. There are many different versions, and so many of them start somberly.

Lehman Engel has a nice short (45 second) one on an album which is not the traditional SB overture.

[Lot666]

Posted: 10/27/22 at 9:01am

Updated On: 10/27/22 at 09:01 AM

[Fan123]

Posted: 10/27/22 at 4:34pm

KISS ME, KATE might not have a 'bad' overture, but the way that they placed the Entr'acte at the start of the original Broadway cast album has got me attuned to finding that the much better opening for the show. Others seem to agree; as I recall the original Entr'acte music has now pretty much become the overture that's inserted into 'Another Openin', Another Show' for recent productions.

BRIGADOON. Again I'm probably just too accustomed to another opening, but the film's main titles gives us a pretty segment of 'The Heather on the Hill' which I miss from the stage overture.

[morosco]

Posted: 10/28/22 at 3:27pm

I always found the Jerome Robbin's Broadway overture disappointing.

[CATSNYrevival]

Posted: 10/28/22 at 7:43pm

Fan123 said: "KISS ME, KATE might not have a 'bad' overture, but the way that they placed the Entr'acte at the start of the original Broadway cast album has got me attuned to finding that the much better opening for the show. Others seem to agree; as I recall the original Entr'acte music has now pretty much become the overture that's inserted into 'Another Openin', Another Show' for recent productions."

I'd love to hear a fabulous Kiss Me, Kate overture some day. I don't like the way current productions drop it into the middle of the opening number.

 

[chewy5000]

Posted: 10/28/22 at 9:31pm

I think the 'new' arrangement of Another Op'nin' suits the meta nature of the show, similar to what Rodgers and Hammerstein did with Me and Juliet