Posted: 6/23/22 at 11:06pm
Will Swenson, a former Mormon born in Utah, is playing Neil Diamond, a Brooklyn-born Jew, and, if Santino Fontana can play a Polish-Jewish Holocaust victim in The Pianist, then a non-Jew playing Fanny really isn't worth clutching pearls over.
Updated On: 6/23/22 at 11:06 PM
Posted: 6/23/22 at 11:14pm
TaffyDavenport said: "Will Swenson, a former Mormon born in Utah, is playing Neil Diamond, a Brooklyn-born Jew, and, if Santino Fontana can play a Polish-Jewish Holocaust victim in The Pianist,then a non-Jew playing Fanny really isn't worth clutching pearls over."
Will is playing Neil?! Will he even be able to sing the part? I don’t recall his vocals ever being stellar.
Also, many of the drag queens in Ptown are making Funny Girl revival jokes and the audience is getting them. For those saying let it go, I’m sorry but this is the entertainment industry. If you birth a dud, it’s gonna be fodder for comedy. It’s part of the package.
Posted: 6/23/22 at 11:37pm
Penna2 said: "Dollypop said: "I hope the show runs forever so we can continue to read Penna2's insightful and never-ending comments about it."
Aw, shucks. I feel the same about you.
That's very nice to know but don't come down with the warm fuzzies over me. My aging heart belongs to Justin Trudeau and no one else.
"
Posted: 6/24/22 at 1:43am
BrodyFosse123 said: "Valerie Harper, who played one of television history’s most famous Jewish characters: Rhoda Morgenstern, was Roman Catholic.
Kay Medford, who was the original Mrs. Brice in FUNNY GIRL (both on Broadway and the film), was Catholic.
Anne Bancroft, who was one of the most famous Jewish actresses on stage and film, was Roman Catholic."
there was a time when none of this mattered, yes. and one can argue that it still shouldnt; i for one am happy to see jews playing nonjews, gays playing straight, vice versa, the whole deal. its acting.
but it does seem odd that the progressive pearl clutchers when it comes to everything else, are perfectly chill with a catholic playing an iconic jew. like the mj thing, its the hypocrisy that makes me choke.
Posted: 6/24/22 at 10:00am
What's interesting about the "it doesn't matter what the actress' real religion is" discussion is that, famously, the show was going to be a vehicle for Mary Martin until the show's potential lyricist Stephen Sondheim insisted the actress playing Fanny had to be Jewish. That's pretty much what led to Barbra being cast, and Barbra being cast changed forever the image of what can constitute a beautiful woman in American culture, and essentially ended the tradition of Jewish performers hiding/downplaying their Jewishness in order to become major stars. Giant, positive ramifications came in the wake of Sondheim's insistence (in a show he wouldn't even wind up writing the lyrics for).
And it reminds me of the passionate argument Harvey Fierstein made that Albin must be played by a gay man in La Cage because a straight actor, no matter how good, did not have the personal experience for the rage that informs I Am What I Am to come through. He lost that argument, but it was latter admitted (I think by Jerry Herman, but maybe it was Arthur Laurents--did Laurents ever admit to being wrong about anything?) when a gay man was later took over the role that Fierstein was right.
For the record, I agree with what others are saying here. The world has changed, and it is no longer necessary for a Jewish woman to play the part, as it once was. Essentially Funny Girl itself led a revolution that made the mandate for its own original production irrelevant. If the actress convinces the audience her character is Jewish, all is well.
Posted: 6/24/22 at 10:27am
BrodyFosse123 said: "Valerie Harper, who played one of television history’s most famous Jewish characters: Rhoda Morgenstern, was Roman Catholic.
Kay Medford, who was the original Mrs. Brice in FUNNY GIRL (both on Broadway and the film), was Catholic.
Anne Bancroft, who was one of the most famous Jewish actresses on stage and film, was Roman Catholic."
Yet in the original 1964 production of 'Funny Girl', it was reported that even though she nailed the auditions, Carol Burnett didn't get cast in the role because she wasn't "convincing" as Jewish and therefore audiences wouldn't believe the storyline.
Nancy Walker, on the other hand, auditioned and she was convincing as being Jewish - even though she was Italian Catholic. However, at 4'11", she said she lost out on the role because the producers thought she was 'too short' and would be lost on stage when surrounded by the cast. (Of course, Walker would go on to play Jewish through most of her career after her audition).
Posted: 6/24/22 at 11:23am
PipingHotPiccolo said: "but it does seem odd that the progressive pearl clutchers when it comes to everything else, are perfectly chill with a catholic playing an iconic jew. like the mj thing, its the hypocrisy that makes me choke."
I think many of those who object to (for example) the casting of cisgender actors in transgender roles point to the lack of opportunities for transgender actors. Arguably, the same cannot be said about the opportunities available to Jewish performers on Broadway.
Updated On: 6/24/22 at 11:23 AM
Posted: 6/24/22 at 3:45pm
Yet in the original 1964 production of 'Funny Girl', it was reported that even though she nailed the auditions, Carol Burnett didn't get cast in the role because she wasn't "convincing" as Jewish and therefore audiences wouldn't believe the storyline.
Carol Burnett NEVER auditioned. She was one of the many actresses approached, but wisely declined.
These are other actresses who were being considered (circa 1962) prior to that nite-club singer Streisand: Chita Rivera, Tammy Grimes, Judy Holliday, Paula Prentiss, Suzanne Pleshette, Mimi Hines, Kaye Stevens, Eydie Gormé/Steve Lawrence(assuming they came as a pair, i.e. Fanny/Nick).
Posted: 6/24/22 at 6:40pm
kdogg36 said: "PipingHotPiccolo said: "but it does seem odd that the progressive pearl clutchers when it comes to everything else, are perfectly chill with a catholic playing an iconic jew. like the mj thing, its the hypocrisy that makes me choke."
I think many of those who object to (for example) the casting of cisgender actors in transgender roles point to the lack of opportunities for transgender actors. Arguably, the same cannot be said about the opportunities available to Jewish performers on Broadway."
A fair distinction. Im not saying anyone SHOULD play any role, and i certainly think that trans actors should get all the opportunities they can. But Sarah Silverman has explored this a bit, how iconic Jewish characters are routinely played by non-Jewish performers (RBG, Leonard Bernstein, come to immediate mind). My view is the best performer should get the part, i could care less about their background, but i dont think thats particularly PC these days.
Posted: 6/24/22 at 6:56pm
PipingHotPiccolo said: "A fair distinction. Im not saying anyone SHOULD play any role, and i certainly think that trans actors should get all the opportunities they can. But Sarah Silverman has explored this a bit, how iconic Jewish characters are routinely played by non-Jewish performers (RBG, Leonard Bernstein, come to immediate mind). My view is the best performer should get the part, i could care less about their background, but i dont think thats particularly PC these days."
I don't have strong feelings on whether Fanny must be played by a Jewish actress, but I'd just like to expand on this because I love Sarah Silverman's podcast and generally find her world views very well-considered. Sarah always specifies that she fully supports "letting actors act" and that the individual portrayals of Jewish characters by non-Jewish actors (Scarlett Johansson in Jojo Rabbit, Rachel Brosnahan in Marvelous Mrs. Maisel, etc etc etc...) are not the problem, but rather, the problem is the trend of most Jewish roles going to non-Jews, especially, as she points out, if they're meant to be lovable, sympathetic, relatable -- whereas if they're the naggy girlfriend or the greedy business manager, it's much likely to go to a Jewish actress (see: Sarah Silverman in School of Rock and RENT).
Posted: 6/24/22 at 7:03pm
joevitus said: "And it reminds me of the passionate argument Harvey Fierstein made that Albin must be played by a gay man in La Cage because a straight actor, no matter how good, did not have the personal experience for the rage that informs I Am What I Am to come through. He lost that argument, but it was latter admitted (I think by Jerry Herman, but maybe it was Arthur Laurents--did Laurents ever admit to being wrong about anything?) when a gay man was later took over the role that Fierstein was right."
"As for dear, crusty old Arthur, late in the run, when he finally cast two gay men in the leads, he phoned to say, 'I do not do this often and I do not do this lightly -you were right. Gay men make all the difference.' And then ****hung up."
Posted: 6/24/22 at 7:10pm
Scarlett's role in Jojo Rabbit was not Jewish.
Its a tough thing to wrap one's head around. Most of us can see the argument that characters of color should be played by persons of color. And roles that are LGBTQ+ should be played by those same actors....and if its true for those "examples", doesn't that mean it should ALWAYS be true? But where is a line drawn? Not sure were ready to hire mass murderers to tell those type of stories. I'm Jewish...and while I'd be happy to play Jewish characters, I dont want to be out of consideration for all non Jewish roles.
A conundrum.
Posted: 6/24/22 at 9:51pm
Judaism is a religion, a faith, a set of beliefs, what you worship and to whom you pray in Temple on the Sabbath. With the possible exception of Ivanka Trump, people who convert to Judaism during their lives are no less Jewish than those born into it, perhaps more since they have made a proactive choice to be Jewish.. Which means to say, anybody with any appearance can be Jewish.
As a Jew myself, this discussion on whether the role needs to be played by someone who is Jewish themselves is a bit troubling simply because it is subconsciously based on the belief that most if not all Jews look and sound a certain way and that is based on historical stereotypes and biases, most of them unflattering. "She definitely looks Jewish" is often not meant as a compliment. Unless the role is one where the character largely spends their time studying the Torah or preparing the house for the Sabbath, I'm not sure there needs to be a requirement for the person to have the same spiritual beliefs as the real life person on which the role is based.
Posted: 6/24/22 at 9:57pm
Bettyboy72 said: "TaffyDavenport said: "Will Swenson, a former Mormon born in Utah, is playing Neil Diamond, a Brooklyn-born Jew, and, if Santino Fontana can play a Polish-Jewish Holocaust victim in The Pianist,then a non-Jew playing Fanny really isn't worth clutching pearls over."
Will is playing Neil?! Will he even be able to sing the part? I don’t recall his vocals ever being stellar.
Will Swenson, as in the guy who played Javert and Charles Guiteau, to name just two? Not stellar? Ok, but I think he can probably handle singing the songs of a husky voiced bass-baritone pop singer.
Posted: 6/24/22 at 10:19pm
Posted: 6/25/22 at 6:23pm
Beanie just called out of tonight's FG performance. Correct me if I'm wrong but this is the 23rd performance she's missed.
Posted: 6/25/22 at 6:57pm
It's Pride weekend, so I'm sure there will be some disappointed gays there, but hopefully they'll give Julie a chance.
Updated On: 6/25/22 at 06:57 PM
Posted: 6/25/22 at 8:33pm
To give her the benefit of the doubt: she was apparently symptomatic with Covid, a respiratory infection after all. I’m no advocate for her performance or casting (saw a Wednesday matinee in June) but there’s no denying the challenge in returning to this vocally demanding role after having flu symptoms. Calling out the second show of a Saturday sounds like acceptance of an inability to deliver tonight.
Updated On: 6/25/22 at 08:33 PM
Posted: 6/25/22 at 9:31pm
UncleCharlie said: "Judaism is a religion, a faith, a set of beliefs, what you worship and to whom you pray in Temple on the Sabbath. With the possible exception of Ivanka Trump, people who convert to Judaism during their lives are no less Jewish than those born into it, perhaps more since they have made a proactive choice to be Jewish.. Which means to say, anybody with any appearance can be Jewish.
As a Jew myself, this discussion on whether the role needs to be played by someone who is Jewish themselves is a bit troubling simply because it is subconsciously based on the belief that most if not all Jews look and sound a certain way and that is based on historical stereotypes and biases, most of them unflattering. "She definitely looks Jewish" is often not meant as a compliment. Unless the role is one where the character largely spends their time studying the Torah or preparing the house for the Sabbath, I'm not sure there needs to be a requirement for the person to have the same spiritual beliefs as the real life person on which the role is based."
I certainly dont think Sarah Silverman was suggesting Jews look a certain way and must be played by Jew-looking Jews. She was--as very well stated below-- saying why are Jewish actors tasked to play some Jewish roles but when it comes to a mainstream, protagonist, hero-ish performance, suddenly they arent in the mix? I dont know how I feel about it and its complicated. A Black Jew playing Hodel makes more sense than a Catholic playing Hodel, when the latter looks more like what a Ukrainian Jew from the 1890s would look like? I don't know.
But i would like to correct the above. Judaism is a religion, in that it includes a set of beliefs and one can opt-in to those beliefs. But my DNA results are pretty clear (at least 50% of them are) as to Jewish lineage, and that has nothing to do with religious belief. Ignorant to treat Judaism as a religion alone; it just isn't. See, e.g., anti-Semites.
ALL THAT SAID- id love to hear Lea Michele play this role, whether shes jewish or not (i dont think she is? and i dont care)
Posted: 6/25/22 at 9:35pm
Auggie27 said: "To give her the benefit of the doubt: she was apparently symptomatic with Covid, a respiratory infection after all. I’m no advocate for her performance or casting (saw a Wednesday matinee in June) but there’s no denying the challenge in returning to this vocally demanding role after having flu symptoms. Calling out the second show of a Saturday sounds like acceptance of an inability to deliver tonight."
Then the grownups in the room, if there are any, need to sit down with Beanie and her agent and her doctor and whomever else needs to be in on the conversation, to discuss her post-flu symptoms, energy level and general health and how this is affecting her participation in the show. Then they might be able to set up a schedule, which might also benefit Julie as an alternate instead of standby with a (relatively) fixed schedule and a pay increase.
The fact that there is a party involved to maybe celebrate her birthday and new engagement doesn't help from a PR standpoint, though. Whatever goodwill Beanie may have with the rest of the cast and crew is likely diminishing as this sort of behavior continues. I'm sure they are thrilled for Julie and working with her, but this is disrespectful to all concerned.
Still hoping she leaves in July and is done with it. If this sort of thing continues, Lea Michelle will begin looking like a dream to work with.
Updated On: 6/25/22 at 09:35 PM
Posted: 6/25/22 at 10:00pm
TaffyDavenport said: "It's Pride weekend, so I'm sure there will be some disappointed gays there, but hopefully they'll give Julie a chance."
We are usually a very informed audience. I am sure no one cared.. if anything they were thrilled to get Julie.
Posted: 6/25/22 at 10:33pm
PipingHotPiccolo said: "But i would like to correct the above. Judaism is a religion, in that it includes a set of beliefs and one can opt-in to those beliefs. But my DNA results are pretty clear (at least 50% of them are) as to Jewish lineage, and that has nothing to do with religious belief. Ignorant to treat Judaism as a religion alone; it just isn't. See, e.g., anti-Semites."
Your DNA results are pretty clear as to Jewish lineage and that has nothing to do with religious beliefs? What does Jewish lineage have to do with if not with religious beliefs? And how can a DNA test for someone's faith or the God they pray to? Please, educate me. I'll wait right here.
Posted: 6/25/22 at 10:55pm
I'm not sure whats confusing about what I said, but sounds like you have some googling to do?
Are you really "waiting right here" to learn that my paternal genetic material is 100% Ashkenazi Jew, that this is a distinct genetic group (and that there are a few other such Jewish genetic groups?) That genetic reality has nothing to do, obviously, with whether I'm a practicing Jew or my religious beliefs... but you seem unaware of this scientific reality so, i dunno, look it up?
Posted: 6/25/22 at 11:47pm
Far be it from me to stop the Beanie Bashing, i know that animosity and sniping is what sustains some people in these parts...
apropos of nothing, genealogists today confirmed that Elvis Presley had Jewish ancestry. a meaningless silly factoid, but do people here think that means they discovered he went to synagogue? Yikes.
.jpg?format=auto&width=300)
