Broadway Grosses: Week Ending 7/23/23- Page 2

[ErmengardeStopSniveling]

Posted: 7/25/23 at 4:54pm

EDSOSLO858 said: "I don't thinkHere Lies Lovestands much of a chance without Salonga, but we'll see. That could also be toast by Labor Day."

Lea Salonga, who sold no tickets in Allegiance and Once On This Island and Flower Drum Song???

That show needs to grow but it has started in a decent place and it's too early to tell what the appetite is. They have reviews they can work with, but word of mouth could be divided (especially depending on the age of the mouth). It might not ever recoup, but I expect to see it around for a bit.

[Mr. Wormwood]

Posted: 7/25/23 at 5:11pm

EDSOSLO858 said: "bwayphreak234 said: "Guess I'm in the minority, but I love the Marquis. I find it accessible and comfortable."

Me too! It's probably one of the theaters I've visited the most, and I've never had an uncomfortable seating experience."

The theater itself is so non-descript but I do agree that the seats are among the most comfortable of any Broadway theater

[kdogg36]

Posted: 7/25/23 at 5:17pm

ElephantLoveMedley said: "Unless the show can magically turn it around sometime soon, it will be yet another flop in the Marquis Theatre. It begs the question: is it purely coincidental that flop after flop has occupied that theater for the past 20 years, or is there something about that venue that just makes it uniquely difficult for shows to do well there?"

As I look over the shows I've seen there, I can't see any that I would have expected to be hits in any universe. It seems more like it just doesn't attract hit material somehow, not that it makes everything flop.

[Dylan Smith4]

Posted: 7/25/23 at 5:41pm

Yikes for OUAOMT! I don’t see that making it to the fall! It makes me feel so bad for the cast as they might be out of a job soon. The choreography I’ve seen looks incredible though, but the book seems to be a problem. I think people are tired of fairytale Cinderella stories lately! Especially after Bad Cinders! 

[RWPrincess]

Posted: 7/25/23 at 5:55pm

bwayphreak234 said: "Guess I'm in the minority, but I love the Marquis. I find it accessible and comfortable."

I also love the Marquis. It's one of my favorite theaters.

 

[muscle23ftl]

Posted: 7/25/23 at 6:04pm

Sauja said: "What is Once Upon a One More Time holding out for? Their numbers are just abysmal."

Well, I am sure if you had invested a ton of money, time and effort in a show you believe in, you would try to keep it open too.

And the entire theater staff, the cast and crew are probably happy the show is still open. 

Updated On: 7/25/23 at 06:04 PM

[Sutton Ross]

Posted: 7/25/23 at 7:56pm

EDSOSLO858 said: "I don't think Here Lies Love stands muh of a chance without Salonga, but we'll see. That could also be toast by Labor Day."

I agree, she is a star (and huge internationally) and I sincerely hope they can keep it going after she leaves but the grosses increased when she arrived and were a bit tepid beforehand so I guess we will see. 

 

 

[Luminaire2]

Posted: 7/25/23 at 8:10pm

Interesting to see The Lion King and Wicked back in the top two spots, with Hamilton slotting into third. Lion King seems to consistently be the top earner these days, with the next two slots rotating between a few shows. (Wicked, Hamilton, Sweeney)

[kdogg36]

Posted: 7/25/23 at 9:30pm

Luminaire2 said: "Lion King seems to consistently be the top earner these days"

It's kind of odd, when you think about it, that a show most of us (including me) routinely ignore is still the undisputed Broadway champion. This week, The Lion King had:

- the highest ticket price

- the highest gross

- and, somehow, also, the biggest drop in gross

It's definitely positioned as a tourist destination sine qua non at this point in Broadway history.

[Mr. Wormwood]

Posted: 7/25/23 at 10:27pm

kdogg36 said: "Luminaire2 said: "Lion King seems to consistently be the top earner these days"

It's kind of odd, when you think about it, that a show most of us (including me) routinely ignore is still the undisputed Broadway champion. This week,The Lion Kinghad:

- the highest ticket price

- the highest gross

- and, somehow, also, the biggest drop in gross

It's definitely positioned as a tourist destination sine qua non at this point in Broadway history."

Absolutely. It's also doing way better than Phantom was at its 25 year mark. It really is incredible.

[RippedMan]

Posted: 7/25/23 at 11:25pm

It’s a beautiful visual show that any tourist from any country can watch and enjoy. Where as something like Hamilton - which while we’ll directed and designed isn’t a huge spectacle - if English isn’t your first language it might be difficult to follow. 
 

And what makes the Marquis so bad from a producer stand point? I’d say arguably it’s a great location and a good size with a modern stage. So why does it always get passed up?

[HogansHero]

Posted: 7/25/23 at 11:30pm

My take on the Marquis is a little different. 

In the theatre, very few things have a single cause. 

In the theatre, the law of self-fulfilling prophesies is in full force.

In the theatre, most landlords and most producers are gamblers. 

For a variety of reasons, experienced producers don't like the Marquis. The track record, at this point, provides plenty of foundation for this dislike because there are (a) multiple causes and (b) a ton of self-fulfilling prophecies. 

The theatres that no one wants go either to someone trying to break into the business or to someone who feels like gambling. So tyros get the lousy houses, or else gamblers do. The first part is easy to understand. If you are a newbie, you will take what you are given because you are not going to start out getting the prime houses. (Also, you are convinced you have your hands on a winner.) The same process explains who gets a theatre at the times of year nobody wants them. If you are a gambler, on the other hand, you are betting on a property (almost always with OPM [other peoples' money]) that (a) will attract investment (e.g., a jukebox musical based on the catalog of a very successful person who is very well known, or written by such folk) and (b) because if it is actually good, you stand to make money, with no risk on your part. 

So we have OUAOMT and Britney and it will either set the world on fire or (most likely) be gone by Labor Day. Why would the Nederlanders produce this? Because they have this albatross that they KNOW will sit vacant all summer unless they make a little money by "gambling." And they probably have some tyro waiting in the wings and who can get a show in that will last until at least January 2. 

Yes my take is cynical but it is borne out over and over again.  

 

[blaxx]

Posted: 7/26/23 at 12:34am

It's not the theater, it's the show.

No one would believe the Gershwin was the most infamous flop house until Wicked. Everyone blamed it was a barn, impossible to fill.

Or the Lyric, with not a single hit until Harry Potter.

The Marquis just doesn't seem the house that producers with a solid show would go to, is all. It's the place where that one half baked, mediocre takes because it's available.

Until the day that one amazing show goes for it, then the rest will be history.

[RippedMan]

Posted: 7/26/23 at 12:39am

But you also didn’t really say anything. 
 

WHY is this theater such an albatross for them? Why did they sign off on its design and creation in the first place then? 
 

I don’t think it matters to most tourists but I will say, for me, it feels like a road house and not the unique, historical Broadway theaters most would associate with Broadway. Sure it’s had some terrible shows in it but so has every house on Broadway. 

[Ensemble1686998462]

Posted: 7/26/23 at 1:34am

In regard to OUAOMT. I was in the city on Saturday and was near the Sweeny Todd and Kimberly Akimbo theatres and I heard people walking by mention "The Britney Spears musical" (that's what they all called it) at least three different times. And each time it was said in a laughing dismissive manner. So, I actually think perhaps the Britney name is hurting it as much, if not more than, say as the argument that Moulin Rouge/&Juliet is taking its spot as the go to jukebox musical for tourists or that people are tired of fairy tales. It seemed to me like Britney's name was seen as a joke and therefore there was zero curiosity in it. 

[HogansHero]

Posted: 7/26/23 at 2:03am

RippedMan said: "But you also didn’t really say anything.
 

Actually, I think I said quite a lot but I will put a little more meat on the bones.

WHY is this theater such an albatross for them? Why did they sign off on its design and creation in the first place then?
 

Who is they? The theatre was designed by John Portman (the Marriott's usual architect for this sort of property). He was obviously not a theatre designer, and the decision to include a theatre was a semi-last minute result geared to satisfy the city's demand for a certain cubic volume, IIRC. So it was basically shoehorned into the available space, which left a great deal to be desired back of house (whatever one thought of the front). The size of the house was too big for most shows, and the economics was poor in terms of seat distribution etc. The original box office was on Broadway and was hard to find; signage was lost in the sea bright lights and attention seeking billboards that is Times Sq. The theatre itself, up escalators on the 3rd floor, is also hard to find. Back of house suffers from narrow wingspace and low fly space, oh and everything else coming in and out including load in and load out is costly, because it is on the 3rd floor without a freight elevator. It is monumentally insane as a construct. The list goes on and on. 

I don’t think it matters to most tourists but I will say, for me, it feels like a road house and not the unique, historical Broadway theaters most would associate with Broadway. Sure it’s had some terrible shows in it but so has every house on Broadway."

I agree about the feel. Regarding terrible shows, I don't think it is comparable because, as I said, smart producers with good shows look elsewhere.

I don't believe it or any theatre is cursed but I think it is a design defect in the same way that products that get the attention of the CPSC are. 

[Mr. Wormwood]

Posted: 7/26/23 at 2:17am

I thought it was built to sort of "throw a bone" to those who were upset about the theaters that were demolished to make room for the hotel?

[binau]

Posted: 7/26/23 at 2:33am

If I am understanding you correctly Hogan though (at least from your earlier post), are you saying that one of the major causal factors behind the Marquis being a flop house is that because it is seen as less desirable it tends to be the last resort for experienced producers who produce good shows that are less likely to be flops? So it's not necessarily because the Marquis itself causes the shows to be flops but if a less experienced producer wants to mount a show (or if the show itself is perhaps seen as problematic) it ends up having no choice but to go to one of these less desirable houses, such as the Marquis. To me this makes sense. Sure there might be things about it (e.g. the size) that help perpetuate this vicious flop cycle, but ultimately I agree with others that suggest arguments such as its location or difficulty to find are rather unconvincing, today at least.  

------

For what it's worth (which isn't much lol), I know FOLLIES seemed like the LAST show that would suit the Marquis, but I must admit I absolutely loved everything about it there - the marquee being in prime real estate in Times Square visible to all, the weird glass-encased lobby that I had never seen before, the way they transformed the theatre to make it look old, the entire subtext that the show is about the tearing down and replacing of the theatre with a parking lot that kind of subtextual feels exactly what the Marquis Hotel/Theatre is. The novelty of Bernadette being there after Annie Get Your Gun and the Goodbye Girl. Unfortunately though, the theatre ended up being just too big - they managed to sell the prime orchestra seats throughout the entire run but could not shift the Mezz. Had they been somewhere a little smaller I wonder if the size would better match demand and the buzz inside of a full theatre would have helped keep the energy up in the audience and caused them to have a better time and maintain/increase demand (I can't imagine anything sucking the air out of a theatre experience more than being in a half empty theatre). But when you want to book a Broadway theatre just a couple months in advance again I don't think the Producers had the luxury of choosing the perfectly size house and to the Marquis it was. 

[BJR]

Posted: 7/26/23 at 10:07am

It doesn't have a freight elevator?? That's insane.

[RippedMan]

Posted: 7/26/23 at 10:41am

Thanks that's the info I was more so looking for as to why a producer wouldn't want it. 

What does that mean for The Palace? I'm guessing it has an elevator but that also means a lot of stuff has to be built on site. 

[Hairspray0901]

Posted: 7/26/23 at 10:49am

JasonC3 said: "The Marquis is arguably easier to find than some theaters precisely because it is part of the Marriott Marquis complex.

"

I will never forget the first show I saw there. 9 to 5. My Mom and I walked around the block twice (through the Marquis underpass) because we couldn’t find the theatre. Didn’t realize it was INSIDE the hotel. Still laugh about it today. I definitely don’t think the location is the reason shows flop, though. 

[Wick3]

Posted: 7/26/23 at 11:05am

Hairspray0901 said: "JasonC3 said: "The Marquis is arguably easier to find than some theaters precisely because it is part of the Marriott Marquis complex."
I will never forget the first show I saw there. 9 to 5. My Mom and I walked around the block twice (through the Marquis underpass) because we couldn’t find the theatre. Didn’t realize it was INSIDE the hotel. Still laugh about it today. I definitely don’t think the location is the reason shows flop, though."

One of the most common questions at the Marquis must be ... where's the box office?

 

 

[JasonC3]

Posted: 7/26/23 at 11:39am

Yeah, the box office location can be confusing.

[Observation]

Posted: 7/26/23 at 11:44am

Hairspray0901 said: "JasonC3 said: "The Marquis is arguably easier to find than some theaters precisely because it is part of the Marriott Marquis complex.

"

I will never forget the first show I saw there. 9 to 5. My Mom and I walked around the block twice (through the Marquis underpass) because we couldn’t find the theatre. Didn’t realize it was INSIDE the hotel. Still laugh about it today. I definitely don’t think the location is the reason shows flop, though."

 

We did this too when we saw Drowsy Chaperone! 

 

[HogansHero]

Posted: 7/26/23 at 12:20pm

@binau yes, you understand what I was trying to say. The talk about the box office and finding the theatre provides another easy to appreciate reason the Marquis is viewed as less desirable: the marketing task is more difficult. The usually simple traffic flow controls are also complicated (though slightly better now). If confused and you ask a hotel employee for directions, there is no certainty you will get the right answer or a polite customer service oriented one. And if you find the theatre entrance and take your seat, but still need to go to the restroom, you have to leave the theatre altogether and walk a distance to get there. And on and on. Are these things that make a show flop? No. But they don't help and they create unique operational headaches for the production.