Lea Michele as Fanny - Funny Girl — Page 66

binau said: "The way this is going, the only person that will be allowed to star in Funny Girl in the future will be Fanny Brice herself in an AI hologram."

I just have no patience for slippery slope BULLSH*T like this.

ColorTheHours048 said: "binau said: "The way this is going, the only person that will be allowed to star in Funny Girl in the future will be Fanny Brice herself in an AI hologram."

Why would that be so when there are many capable performers who identify as Jewish? This is such a stupid point to make."

Do you know of any of these capable performers who identify as Jewish who auditioned for this tour and didn't get it? Maybe they should post their audition tapes so we can all compare and see who should get it?

Phillyguy said: "ColorTheHours048 said: "binau said: "The way this is going, the only person that will be allowed to star in Funny Girl in the future will be Fanny Brice herself in an AI hologram."

Why would that be so when there are many capable performers who identify as Jewish? This is such a stupid point to make."

Do you know of any of these capable performers who identify as Jewish who auditioned for this tour and didn't get it? Maybe they should post their audition tapes so we can all compare and see who should get it?

"


No, you’re right. There are no Jewish actors who can handle the Funny Girl score. Bring on the AI robots and pack it in, ladies. You’re through here.

I’m done checking on this thread. It’s just devolving into asinine whataboutisms.

There is no such thing as “the best audition” when it comes to professional theatre. For any given role, there are always countless actors who would have been great. It is simply a matter of preference between the director and the producers.

For principal roles, the preference usually leans towards actors with resumes that show a track record of success at a high level. If they are a well-known actor, or have a previous relationship with the powers that be, that is often the deciding factor among auditionees who were all more or less equally “good.” Many, many roles are cast without auditions. This is why Equity requires open calls, although frequently many of the listed roles are already unofficially cast.

Because the Funny Girl team made the rare move of hiring someone rather young with very few professional credits and almost no industry recognition in a “star vehicle” kind of role in a Broadway tour, they are basically saying that this girl - in their opinion - gave the best audition, and that resumes etc. had little to do with their decision. So since this is a rare case where suitability for the role was allegedly the only factor, some people are confused and upset that they didn’t feel that actual Jewishness should be considered a factor in an actor’s suitability for it.

Of course not every Jewish character in every medium needs to be played by an actual Jewish person. But clearly a large number of people feel that this role should be. So here we are.

It’s not discrimination. Also, if you want to go that route, you could argue that literally every casting decision ever is discriminatory in some way. Show business is the one industry where yes, what you look like and what your race/ethnicity you are is absolutely part of the hiring criteria. That’s just the way it is.

jkcohen626 said: "binau said: "The way this is going, the only person that will be allowed to star in Funny Girl in the future will be Fanny Brice herself in an AI hologram."

I just have no patience for slippery slope BULLSH*T like this."

I find that rather rude, but I actually wasn't even just joking. I suggest you watch "Joan is Awful" (Black Mirror), look at how technology is evolving, look at ABBA Voyage, look at what actors are striking at now and the fact that production companies already hinting at background actors signing away their bodies to AI for one day of pay. Look at how ridiculous the economics of theatre are getting right now. While we go on to obsess over the ethnicity/religion of actors this kind of outrage is setting up the perfect storm for producers to turn around in just a couple of years and say it's going to be much more authentic, more inclusive and sometimes even more exciting in some cases to use AI holograms that perfectly fit every demographic characterstic you want to see of an actor in a show. They won't have to fear cancellation (see also: Great Comet). And the obvious thing is it's going to be so much cheaper too. In fact, maybe the thing that is going to save Broadway is putting all actors out of work. My god I hope this day never comes.

Updated On: 7/14/23 at 01:34 PM

SeanD2 said: "It is highly likely that the creative team didn't know she WASN'T Jewish (if she isn't, we haven't had confirmation on that from her either way). It's also very possible she went in for a role other than Fanny and the creative team liked her and asked her to read for Fanny.



It saddens me that so many people who advocate for preventing discrimination are now actively arguing that it should be ok for creative teams to discriminate against someone due to their ethnicity/religion."

We also have that case of a currently running Broadway show where the director allegedly decided they would fire a black actor because they were black and replace them with a white actor because the director was concerned about the optics of having an all black ensemble with white leads. I believe it's now battling out in the law courts (don't want to give identifying details because it'll likely be removed otherwise). It's interesting that some of this kind of thinking is actually hurting black actors now too. I think it's going too far.

I wish we could just have mature discussions where we recognise that we can respect each other, respect each others' cultures, respect each others' ethnicities without this tribal protectionist mentality that we seem to have. We're trying to tell stories and the words, at least in this case, are written on the page. When you are in a theatre and you are watching an actor bring a character to life, if the actor is doing a good job we shouldn't be concerned about the actor's personal life because we are focussing on a character. If an actor can't convincingly do this because they don't have the 'lived experience' needed then they should not be cast (which may or may not be true in my opinion for Jewish characters - it really depends on the actors' capability and how the character is written). If an actor can't convincingly do this because in the theatre they are obviously the completely wrong ethnicity for a role (e.g. Black or Asian characters) they should not be cast.

I saw Christina Bianco play Funny Girl in Paris. Is she Jewish? I have no idea*. But she did a damn good job and I certainly believed her character was!

* I've looked and she describes herself as an 'Italian New Yorker'. Well, Christina was excellent in the role and that's all that matters to me. Unlike Black or Asian actors where the situation is much different because they face much more significant discrimination in casting in my opinion, I just don't believe that this is a case of Jewish actors waiting around for Jewish characters and having them taken away from them. They can have other opportunities. Christina was the right one for this opportunity.

Updated On: 7/14/23 at 02:12 PM

binau said: "Unlike Black or Asian actors where the situation is much different because they face much more significant discrimination in casting in my opinion"

Exactly, because other minorities face more significant discrimination, then this one gets a pass.

Your "opinion" is not based on statistics or facts, but your own privilege. This is why discrimination happens. This is the csuse.

Ticket price update: Prices during the last three weeks dropped again today for side orchestra and some rear orchestra. Weekend prices have dropped too, except for Labor Day weekend.

The prices that already dropped a fair amount (partial view on the sides, rear orchestra) have stayed the same.

After topping out at $335 for late August tickets a couple of months ago, prices for side orchestra and rear orchestra during the final three weeks now range from $200 to $256 for everything but the last weekend.

Updated On: 7/15/23 at 11:48 PM

blaxx said: "PipingHotPiccolo said:

Again, the problem is that in certain communities (and Bway is one of them) we have been told that actors must match the specific ethnicity of their characters exactly, otherwise its racially insensitive. Reasonable people knew from the outset that this was an untenable and outright silly position to take."

Yes, an actor matching the ethnicity of the character is untenable, in the most diverse city in the country lol

They just liked her better. The effort wasn't put in.

Truly, in a tour with no names you certainly could've found a gazillion and one Jewish performers just in NYC.

The issue is not the casting decision, it is that they can't own it with a straight face."

Blaxx you misunderstand me, or maybe "untenable" was the wrong word choice. Of course its DOABLE, i meant its not a working method if its going to rob us of a Helen Mirren or Bradley Cooper performance. Its not workable if the In The Heights movie production has to ensure that the entire cast has the exact specific lineage to represent each and every ethnic group that lives in Wash Heights (btw, are we meant to be outraged that that entire show/story excludes the *Jewish* community in Wash Heights that has thrived there for a century? Of course not, but if thats the game we are playing...)

I'm saying that the hyperfocus on these specific details does a disservice to us all. That said, I very much understand the impulse, respect the intention, and agree with you (i think) that since that commitment had been made, to now toss it aside is somewhat reprehensible. ANd of course I did not mean to suggest this production could not find a worthy Jewish actress to play the role. Of course they could. They chose not to.

In the same way that the biggest issue I have with this tour casting is a goy singing rat-tat-tat-tat, the biggest issue I have with the Bernstein movie is that they put him in a giant prosthetic nose.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=87TqWDhmDGM



Here, let the real Fanny give you a chuckle.

"What you're really saying is that Jews can easily hide their Jewishness, so its easier for them. Play that one all the way through and you should be ashamed. "

No, that's not really what I'm saying at all. What I'm saying is that, actors have a hard life. It's very hard to get roles regardless of your background. For many (or dare I say most) roles someone's ethnicity actually has no relevance to the art. It would not and should not even be part of the conversation (either spoken out loud or not out loud). However, unfortunately POC don't have the privilege of removing it from the perception of whoever is making these decisions AND the audience watching them whereas many other people do so it makes it more difficult (or impossible) to avoid it becoming part of the conversation - they don't even get a choice in the matter. For example, when the West End Cabaret started and Cliff was black how many people made the observation about his ethnicity? It's possible the actor doesn't mind (or may even embrace) the idea that people notice his ethnicity even though it doesn't really have much to do at all with anything. However, to be able to choose what part of your personal life and identity others can see is a more privileged position to be in than those that can't (and really can make a difference). It's not an emotional observation it's just a practical one. If your point is that people shouldn't HAVE to keep their identity private if they don't want to then I agree completely with you, but that's a separate conversation.

We're talking about the practical reality here not moral values. Ask yourself, if you were Jake Gyllenhaal or Cynthia Erivo who do you think should be more worried about whether their ethnicity might be taken into consideration on whether they are going to get a part or not? Who do you think should be more worried about whether their ethnicity might be talked about or part of the conversation in audience reactions? I don't really believe you could honestly say the situations are equal. That said, if you were Jake Gyllenhaal or Tom Holland I clearly understand that Jake Gyllenhaal could be more worried about how his identity might be perceived than Tom Holland, for example. So I'm not suggesting that this isn't an issue worth talking about. What I'm suggesting is that this is a complex nuanced issue and the way that it is being talked about in this thread, and the reaction to me by you even when trying to raise this complexity that I don't even think is very controversial, does not reflect this. I would say the same thing (ironically) about how Cynthia Erivo spoke about the Great Comet issue. I think we can be better and recognise that we should be able to engage in a reasonable and calm conversation about these issues especially if you can hopefully see that it's a sincere discussion not meant to be an emotional fight or anything like that (and I am actually trying to grow myself as a person and hold myself to that too and do better).

If Micaela Diamond gets Sally and they go with a black Cliff again I'm guessing that far less audience members will question whether Diamond is right for the part than whoever is playing Cliff based on their ethnicities (and indeed, how many black Sallys were there in the various Broadway revivals vs White Sallys?). It is a more privileged position to be in and I would say that is not a very controversial opinion. I feel your reaction is as if you're hearing that I'm implying anti-semitism does not exist. That's not what I am saying. As I said, it is actually complex and nuanced. It's not either/or.

I would also say, I know it's humanity but it does start to get a little creepy that whole swarms of people online seem obsessed with scrutinising the private personal lives of actors, wanting to know their sexuality, their ethnicity, their background and nationality etc... this kind of thing would never have happened before social media. Just because everything is much more public now does not give us the right to do this and I think we need to tread carefully. These people just want to make a living out of entertaining and moving us. If we have genuine concerns about how people's private lives might affect what we are seeing on stage or impact a wider social good fine let's talk about it but I think we need to do it in a serious and respectful way. The idea of people running with pitch forks after this poor girl, through no fault of her own, was cast in a show and now has to face the conflict of getting her dream job while having an angry mob after her feels so upsetting. This is a real person. Someone earlier suggested it was her fault for evening considering herself for the role. And apparently I'm the one that should 'ashamed'? ok.

If people can't start being serious and respectful in these kinds of discussions I see this going two ways:

1. You're going to be further from what you're trying to achieve because instead of listening, people will just turn away if they can and not take you seriously (and by 'you' I also mean how these kinds of sensitive topics are dealt with in all fractions of society right now, not just this specific issue)

2. The risk of this kind of mob mentality will cause powerful people to make more risk-averse decisions in the future that means the actual art we see on stage will become far less challenging and vanilla. Between Great Comet, the legal issue I described above, this issue (if it goes anywhere etc.) - the wider discourse happening in a number of different art forms and other public forums right now around a number of these topics right now - I think producers, directors, writers, comedians and whoever else will (if they aren't already) just stay away from wanting to create art that deals with any potentially sensitive topic for fear of the mass hysteria it seems to cause and the impossibility to please everyone. For example (and it's already happened) - it's very clear now that it's probably impossible to make a mainstream film with a trans character that is not trans. I completely understand why people would have concerns about a non-trans actor playing a trans character, and there is a significant problem of representation and discrimination in the trans community. However, on the flip side, having an A list celebrity play a trans character actually brings a mainstream audience into the conversation to learn more about trans issues so it has a number of benefits too. If the greater good is actually trying to get the general population more on-side with trans people and trans issues we should be doing everything we can to find a way to get the general population to enter the conversation, and having an A-list celebrity doing this (e.g. Scarlett Johansson as planned but then cancelled) is probably a very good strategy. If we don't do this, the message and the voice will never be heard - as it wasn't when the movie was cancelled.

This is another case where the issues are more complex and nuanced than they seem. I think it should be ok to discuss and challenge.

The last thing I'll say is, it should be clear to everyone I am not an American. You should understand as you probably do that America is a very powerful and influential country and the kind of behaviour and ideas we see in this thread and elsewhere are making their way into other countries too. Spreading via social media, your entertainment, your news, your debates, your controversies and scandals. Please recognise the immense power you hold in your hands for influencing the rest of the world. This is both amazing in terms of social progress but also frustrating for many people if we don't want all of these American values and cultural ideas in our societies. Or we want higher standards for debate than 280 character twitter messages that America has brought to the world. So the way you go about this issue is not just affecting you, it's affecting so many others too.

I'm sorry that my posts are always so long - I like complexity and detail. That's why I love Sondheim so much. I'm happy for people to ignore me but I'm just pre-emptying the usual 'word salad' dismal or whatever rude thing someone wants to say next.

Updated On: 7/16/23 at 05:40 AM