NYP: Broadway sings New York’s blues as crime, costs slow post-COVID comeback- Page 2

[MezzoDiva47]

Posted: 6/3/24 at 9:42am

Impeach2017 said: "Oh goody! It is our weekly "Broadway is doomed because of the evil libs" article by that esteemed journalistic source, the NYP, and posted by someone with a political axe to grind. How tiresome. See you next time."

no one is saying broadway is doomed

but it is not currently pre-covid healthy

no one is saying crime in new york city is as bad as it was in the 1970s and 1980s and early 1990s

but it is not currently late 1990s to 2015 safe

not every liberal idea is evil as that newspaper might imply

but bad policy is bad policy

and new yorkers on the ground are feeling it and noticing it in their neighborhoods

and some but not all tourists have seen and heard what the conditions are like

add to that sticker shock from ticket prices and you have a large enough portion of potential tourists who are not buying tickets to broadway shows that it is directly impacting the productions coffers

 

[BorisTomashevsky]

Posted: 6/3/24 at 9:55am

“Violent crime is down. Period.”

Huh? What numbers and dates are you referring to? 

[Wick3]

Posted: 6/3/24 at 10:32am

I think Broadway is doing fine when clearly there are investors willing to gamble $$$ on new productions each year. 

That article compared this past season with 2018-2019. It didn't mention back then there was an outlier called Springsteen on Broadway that had an average ticket price of over $500! If you took that outlier away, I think the 2023-2024 season fared the same if not better than 2018-2019.

 

[jagman106]

Posted: 6/3/24 at 10:48am

Wick3 said: "I think Broadway is doing fine when clearly there are investors willing to gamble $$$ on new productions each year.

That article compared this past season with 2018-2019. It didn't mention back then there was an outlier called Springsteen on Broadway that had an average ticket price of over $500! If you took that outlier away, I think the 2023-2024 season fared the same if not better than 2018-2019.

Here are some stats that Ken Davenport posted on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/2023-24-broadway-season-over-how-did-we-do-ken-davenport-j5p2e/

If you can't open the link, here is the data from that article:

2023-24 Broadway Season Statistics

Total Gross: $1,539,278,706

Total Attendance: 12,287,708

Total # of Playing Weeks: 1,471

Average Ticket Price: $125.27

How did that compare to the 2023-23 season?

2022-23 Broadway Season Statistics

Total Gross: $1,577,586,897

Total Attendance: 12,283,399

Total # of Playing Weeks: 1,474

Average Ticket Price: $128.43

So, last season looked like this compared to the previous one:

Gross: DOWN 2.46%

Attendance: UP .04%

Playing weeks: DOWN .20%

Average Ticket Price: DOWN 2.49%

In other words . . . the #s were flat.  Barely a change.

Which is . . . not great.  We’re supposed to be in a recovery phase.  And we were flat.  And remember, Broadway expenses escalate much higher than inflation every year (union contracts go up annually, advertising rates, etc, etc).  That means: a flat year is a financial regression.

Now, and more importantly, let’s compare this past season to 2018-19.

2018-19 Broadway Season Statistics

Total Gross: $1,829,312,140

Total Attendance: 14,768,254

Total # of Playing Weeks: 1,737

Average Ticket Price: $123.87

So, here’s the big question . . . here is the answer to “How is Broadway recovering post-pandemic?”

Drumroll please . . . here is how this past season compares to the last complete pre-pandemic season:

Gross: DOWN 17.22%

Attendance: DOWN 18.34%

Playing weeks: DOWN 16.58%

Average Ticket Price: UP 1.12%

Three of the four major indicators of Broadway’s financial health are down.

And the last is flat.

This data, and the “flat” data of this past year to the year before it, tells me that the recovery has stalled.  And the return to the “health” we had prior to the pandemic is going to take much longer than anyone expected.

Add in the aforementioned hyper Broadway inflation we are feeling right now, when expenses are 10-20% higher . . . and we’re seeing an approximately 30% swing in the bottom line . . . then you add a gross that’s down 17.22% and expenses that are up around 15% . . .

No wonder more shows are closing quicker.

No wonder fewer shows are recouping.

Unfortunately, based on historical data . . . the current year that we’re in is only expected to get a little worse.  The research shows that we have a “down year” every four years . . . that coincides with the Presidential Election and the Summer Olympics. (See this post for that analysis.)

So it’s going to get a little rougher.

Davenport goes on to discuss possible solutions, and in that discussion he made this observation:

Second, we must get the Suburban Audience back.  The local market outside the city is down a whopping 30+% from pre-pandemic levels.  They are reluctant to return for a whole bunch of reasons, from the perception of crime, to the cost of commuting into the city, and the fact that their habit of theatergoing was broken for 2+ years.

[Wick3]

Posted: 6/3/24 at 12:06pm

Davenport and other producers would have more details than NYPost or any of us will ever have access to. If he thinks the key is the suburban audience, then it'll be harder to get them back especially with congestion pricing coming into effect June 30th.

 

[Melissa25]

Posted: 6/3/24 at 2:45pm

I grew up in 70’s -80’s NYC and had to worry about being propositioned or having my gold chain snatched or perhaps my purse stolen. Today I fear brain damage from a brick up side the head or worse a beheading from one of those machetes.  It’s definitely scarier.  I get much more excited now when I attend theater events outside of Times Square.  

[Phantom4ever]

Posted: 6/3/24 at 3:41pm

I know y'all are going to shade the hell out of me for this like only the BWW board can shade somebody, but between the seasons being compared in that article, a little bitty show called Phantom closed, and with it went many theatergoers who made frequent trips to New York just to see the show again, along with a few other shows along the way. 

There is NO WAY to quantify this other than anecdotally. However, the huge surge that accompanied Phantom's reopening in October 2021 should give some indication of how rabid and devoted (and psychotic?) the show's fan base was. 

Some of you are going to say that if Phantom's impact were that big, then it would have stayed running. DUH! It closed because that's what CamMack has done to all his long runners. 

The only other possibility besides the Phantom tourist is gone is the age 60+ crowd has not returned and will likely never return. Partly due to Covid fears, partly due to Fox News portraying Times Square as a drugged out lawless hellscape, and partly because so many new productions just aren't for them. 

[Kad]

Posted: 6/3/24 at 3:45pm

Well, I definitely agree that Phantom had psychotic fans. 

[Jarethan]

Posted: 6/3/24 at 5:18pm

Phantom4ever said: "I know y'all are going to shade the hell out of me for this like only the BWW board can shade somebody, but between the seasons being compared in that article, a little bitty show called Phantom closed, and with it went many theatergoers who made frequent trips to New York just to see the show again, along with a few other shows along the way.

There is NO WAY to quantify this other than anecdotally.However, the huge surge that accompanied Phantom's reopening in October 2021 should give some indication of how rabid and devoted (and psychotic?) the show's fan base was.

Some of you are going to say that if Phantom's impact were that big, then it would have stayed running. DUH! It closed because that's what CamMack has done to all his long runners.

The only other possibility besides the Phantom tourist is gone is the age 60+ crowd has not returned and will likely never return. Partly due to Covid fears, partly due to Fox News portraying Times Square as a drugged out lawless hellscape, and partly because so many new productions just aren't for them."

You did not mention ticket prices.  I am 73; I went to get tickets for Gypsy and decided to wait.  When the cheapest orchestra seat in the last row on the side for the huge Majestic is $199.50, I'll wait to see whether Audra / Gypsy can fill the Majestic for a long time.  I know how to look for discount tickets pretty well, and am willing to gamble that they will be available while she is still in it, based of both BP and PL's runs.  I am sure there are people my age who are saying it is just too expensive for something they have seen (multiple times?) before, and simply passing it over. 

The fact that there has been nothing since Hamilton that is widely viewed as a must-see is also not helping...they get tickets to the new monster hit and decide to get tickets for a few others.

Re cheaper seats, I will buy cheaper seats in smaller theatres.  I know that there are cheaper seats in the rear mezzanine of the Majestic.  The only time I ever sat in the rear mezzanine at the Majestic was to see Liv Ullmann in I remember Mama (or whatever it was called).  I felt like I was in another theatre. 

 

[Hope Lombardo]

Posted: 6/3/24 at 5:56pm

The cost of the tickets doesn't feel that crazy to me (given all of the ways to find discounts, etc) but if you don't live in NYC (and can't drive in), the hotel costs right now are insane!! and with the airbnb option gone, it's gotten even crazier....

[Huss417]

Posted: 6/3/24 at 6:20pm

I am less than an hour from the city but I do like to stay in the city when going to the theatre and meeting up with friends and family.

I have to agree hotel prices have become insane. I'm not sure what is happening in the city midweek next week but here is a breakdown of my hotel bill. $1474.00 for 4 nights and the taxes and fees are another $450.00. So about $2000.00 before adding in the cost of the shows I plan on seeing and food.

 

[Zeppie2022]

Posted: 6/3/24 at 6:33pm

"no one is saying broadway is doomed

but it is not currently pre-covid healthy

no one is saying crime in new york city is as bad as it was in the 1970s and 1980s and early 1990s

but it is not currently late 1990s to 2015 safe

not every liberal idea is evil as that newspaper might imply

but bad policy is bad policy

and new yorkers on the ground are feeling it and noticing it in their neighborhoods

and some but not all tourists have seen and heard what the conditions are like

add to that sticker shock from ticket prices and you have a large enough portion of potential tourists who are not buying tickets to broadway shows that it is directly impacting the productions coffers"

Excellent post, I totally agree with all of your points.

[Alexander Lamar]

Posted: 6/3/24 at 6:55pm

I refuse to click the link and give the Post another view, but does the article mention at all the de facto ban on AirBNB’s in NYC as a factor in why hotel prices are so high?

Not that I disagree with the legislation, AirBNB is creating housing crises all over the world but that removed a huge chunk of the lodging hotels had to compete with. 

[Matt Rogers]

Posted: 6/3/24 at 6:56pm

BorisTomashevsky said: "“Violent crime is down. Period.”

Huh? What numbers and dates are you referring to?"

You should be capable of doing an internet search to find the answer. I don’t know if you are capable but you should be capable. 

[TheatreFan4]

Posted: 6/3/24 at 6:57pm

BorisTomashevsky said: "TheatreFan4 said: "I've walked through these areas at 3am in the morning and never had an issue. Could it be that shows are pricing an entire demographic out of their audiences? Noooo couldn't be that. People are far less likely to gamble on a show that's on average $150 a ticket."

The teacher who got stabbed also never had an issue until she got stabbed.

The “nEw YoRk Is SaFe!” screamers will justify their way around anything."

Yeah, blow it out your ass. The place I moved from upstate has a higher violent crime rate than the city. 

You're right, nobody gets hurt until they do and we all know anecdotal stories that get told on the news matters far more than actual data because it sounds scary.

[BorisTomashevsky]

Posted: 6/3/24 at 7:02pm

Matt Rogers said: "BorisTomashevsky said: "“Violent crime is down. Period.”

Huh? What numbers and dates are you referring to?"

You should be capable of doing an internet search to find the answer. I don’t know if you are capable but you should be capable."

You should be capable of not being a complete POS every day of your life. I don’t know if you are capable but you should be capable. 

[Matt Rogers]

Posted: 6/3/24 at 7:07pm

BorisTomashevsky said: "Matt Rogers said: "BorisTomashevsky said: "“Violent crime is down. Period.”

Huh? What numbers and dates are you referring to?"

You should be capable of doing an internet search to find the answer. I don’t know if you are capable but you should be capable."



You should be capable of not being a complete POS every day of your life. I don’t know if you are capable but you should be capable."

Oh, look. A right winger slinging personal insults at fellow board members. How unsurprising. In any case, since you are apparently not capable of doing a simple internet search, here you go, sweetie:

https://www.nyc.gov/site/nypd/news/pr0101/nypd-citywide-crime-statistics-march-first-quarter-2024

 

[TweetyPie2]

Posted: 6/3/24 at 7:50pm

Jordan Catalano said: "That article sounds like a Fox News segment. But (and Christ it pains me to say this) there’s truth in it. Hotels right next to me are homeless shelters looooong after we were told they would be and additional buildings are still used to as shelters, although they’re not for migrants (at least from what I can see every day). While theneighborhood isn’t nearly as safe as it used to be, it’s not the hellscape thst article wants it to be (and I say that after two consecutive days of stabbing at Duane Reade). We certainly aren’t being helped by this God-Awful Mayor we have and I count the days until we can boot his ass out. I just always say imagine where we would be if we could have had Maya Wiley win that election."

You realize, of course, that Fox and the NYP are owned by the same 95-year-old Satan?

[denali.fire]

Posted: 6/3/24 at 8:35pm

So did you move here from Ossining ?

[Islander_fan]

Posted: 6/3/24 at 10:09pm

I believe theatrefan4 is referring to Newburgh. A town upstate that does in fact have a higher crime rate than NYC. I lived in Rhinebeck for a few years, not far from Newburgh. And, I have a strong memory of driving through the town and even then feeling unsafe. 

Now, two things, one is I work on Broadway, and every time I am leaving my theatre to head home, I see tons of people walking around with playbills in hand from various shows. I think things will slowly come back. Keep in mind that due to the pandemic many Broadway bound shows were delayed in their process to get to Broadway. 

And, yes, with NYC the way that it is one shouldn’t let their guard down. But, that’s always been the case. But, the thing that isn’t helping the perspective of a potential tourist is that whenever there’s a story about NYC on any of national news broadcasts it is to highlight an assault or physical altercation on the subway etc. But, that’s all people see and know too. So I’m sure that gives them pause. 

[Zeppie2022]

Posted: 6/4/24 at 9:44am

"And, yes, with NYC the way that it is one shouldn’t let their guard down. But, that’s always been the case. But, the thing that isn’t helping the perspective of a potential tourist is that whenever there’s a story about NYC on any of national news broadcasts it is to highlight an assault or physical altercation on the subway etc. But, that’s all people see and know too. So I’m sure that gives them pause."

Exactly. Be on guard of your surroundings, walk briskly and know where you are going before you leave so you do not look lost. National news will also tell you places like SF, Chicago and Seattle are horrible and yet I have been in those cities fairly recently and had good time and had no issues.

Let me add that ticket prices are not shocking to me, try going to see a concert of a major artist (Taylor Swift, Beyonce, Springsteen etc.) and you will see Broadway tickets are actually cheaper in some cases.

Updated On: 6/4/24 at 09:44 AM

[PegasusOasis]

Posted: 6/5/24 at 10:49am

NY1 reporting congestion pricing is indefinitely suspended !

Updated On: 6/5/24 at 10:49 AM

[spicemonkey]

Posted: 6/5/24 at 11:36am

“Be on guard of your surroundings, walk briskly and know where you are going before you leave so you do not look lost” 

 

in the richest country in the world, in the cIvIlIzEd world, why do ppl have to do things like this? Why can’t we enjoy taking a slow walk peacefully in the Greatest City in the World. 

Updated On: 6/5/24 at 11:36 AM

[JSquared2]

Posted: 6/5/24 at 11:40am

spicemonkey said: "“Be on guard of your surroundings, walk briskly and know where you are going before you leave so you do not look lost”


in the richest country in the world, in the cIvIlIzEdworld, why do ppl have to do things like this? Why can’t we enjoy taking a slow walk peacefully in the Greatest City in the World."

 

Because those of us who live and work here have places to get to, and we don't have time to navigate around your meandering asses.  We will curse you, and strongly consider pushing you into oncoming traffic.  

Updated On: 6/5/24 at 11:40 AM

[MezzA101]

Posted: 6/5/24 at 12:02pm