Posted: 4/14/21 at 1:49pm
ctorres23, genuinely asking. Why are you defending Rudin?
Posted: 4/14/21 at 1:51pm
I think this story is much more than just about another abusive boss. I want to believe that the takedown of Scott Rudin can lead to much bigger changes within the theatre industry re: more people of color having a stake in leadership and taking down the old and white patriarchy.
Posted: 4/14/21 at 2:23pm
I'm wondering who asked ctorres23 if he/she cares because...I certainly do not.
Posted: 4/14/21 at 2:24pm
Call_me_jorge said: "ctorres23, genuinely asking. Why are you defending Rudin?"
Bullies support bullies.
Posted: 4/14/21 at 2:32pm
Fosse76 said: "Call_me_jorge said: "ctorres23, genuinely asking. Why are you defending Rudin?"
Bullies support bullies."
Ok, good insult, but as far as I know I haven't bullied anyone.
That post was less about defending Rudin, who I don't really care about at all, and more about just being personally offended at how bad that NY Mag article was. I haven't been following this saga closely so I went into that story hoping to get some insight into his attempted cancellation, and instead I got a bunch of transparently exaggerated non-stories.
But, I don't want this to become a meta-discussion about me and my motives. Please discuss the substance of the post (or ignore it - that's also fair). Tell me why I'm wrong, rather than just calling me names.
Posted: 4/14/21 at 2:40pm
Did you read the original Hollywood Reporter article? The allegations there are pretty serious.
https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/features/everyone-just-knows-hes-an-absolute-monster-scott-rudins-ex-staffers-speak-out-on-abusive-behavior
Posted: 4/14/21 at 3:50pm
ctorres23, the "who I don't really care about at all" attitude is really not helping anyone.
Posted: 4/14/21 at 3:56pm
I just don't really understand the need to deny any of allegations unless it is personally affecting you. The takedown of Scott Rudin should be appreciated by everyone except, of course, scott rudin.
Posted: 4/14/21 at 4:12pm
Call_me_jorge said: "I just don't really understand the need to deny any of allegations unless it is personally affecting you. The takedown of Scott Rudin should be appreciated by everyone except, of course, scott rudin."
I'm glad that I've mystified you, but I really did just get deeply offended by how trash that article was.
poisonivy2 said: "Did you read the original Hollywood Reporter article? The allegations there are pretty serious.
https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/features/everyone-just-knows-hes-an-absolute-monster-scott-rudins-ex-staffers-speak-out-on-abusive-behavior"
Not great, Bob.
I appreciate that this is actual journalism and not whatever the hell that NY Mag piece was.
Rudin definitely seems like an asshole who is not in control of his temper. Of all the allegations in that piece, I think the one that most offends me is that he would attempt to hurt the careers of people who quit or left by removing credits from IMDB, calling their subsequent bosses, etc. The explosive outbursts are also terrible but they come off as less willful than targeting people who've left.
That being said, I have no idea how he could plausibly be cancelled. To be cancelled there needs to be someone above you in the food chain with veto power over your career. The more diluted that power is, the harder someone is to cancel. The people with power over Rudin's career are talent (actors, writer, directors) and the audience, and I don't see either one of them collectively boycotting him. Audiences don't care, and his body of work has jump-started too many careers for them to turn their backs.
Posted: 4/14/21 at 4:39pm
Posted: 4/14/21 at 4:43pm
Posted: 4/14/21 at 4:45pm
I wonder if Olivo's decision will convince more actors to speak out and leave their respective productions in the weeks to come. She did what was right for her, and I'm sure she's not the only one that doesn't feel safe in an industry that desperately needs to care more about social justice.
Posted: 4/14/21 at 4:48pm
Posted: 4/14/21 at 4:52pm
MR is a Rudin show? Had no idea.....Good for Karen . Would be awkward if she wins the Tony though.
Posted: 4/14/21 at 4:52pm
" I think the one that most offends me is that he would attempt to hurt the careers of people who quit or left by removing credits from IMDB, calling their subsequent bosses, etc. The explosive outbursts are also terrible but they come off as less willful than targeting people who've left."
Umm...he assaulted and employee and sent them to the hospital.
Posted: 4/14/21 at 4:52pm
Posted: 4/14/21 at 4:54pm
MannPhan24601 said: "MR is a Rudin show? Had no idea.....Good for Karen .Would be awkward if she wins the Tony though."
Scott Rudin is not attached to Moulin Rouge!. She made a good decision, though.
Posted: 4/14/21 at 4:57pm
Posted: 4/14/21 at 4:59pm
Applause to Karen. It's courageous. At the same time, two other things come to mind:
1) This is not the first time Olivo has retired from the theatre industry.
2) Saying "I will not return to an industry as long as Scott Rudin is allowed to have a place in it" feels like something that almost...elevates Rudin's power and the grasp he has on the industry. And at the same time, it's almost pointing a finger at him as the only problem –– and there are many, many other producers and other powerful men & women who are nearly as bad as Rudin but somehow quieter.
I don't really know what my point is here, but the industry can't allow him to be the only sacrificial lamb. If 100 people equivalent to Karen Olivo come forward with the same sentiment, paired with some stars, authors, playwright estates, lead producers, and major directors, then change might start to happen. This is a good first step. But Rudin cannot exclusively be the sacrificial lamb.
Edited because I just learned that Olivo uses She/They pronouns.
Updated On: 4/14/21 at 04:59 PM
Posted: 4/14/21 at 5:03pm
Karen is a friend of LMM and I remember reading on here that he wrote Angelica specifically for them and she declined to originate. I wonder what he thinks....
Updated On: 4/14/21 at 05:03 PM
Posted: 4/14/21 at 5:07pm
MannPhan24601 said: "Karen is a friend of LMM and I remember reading on here that he wrote Angelica specifically for her and she declined to originate. I wonder what he thinks...."
She played Angelica in Hamilton Chicago so I'm sure he's pretty pleased from that. But, he's not involved with Moulin Rouge so I doubt he has much thought on her departing a show he has no connection to.
If he is truly her friend, I would hope he'd support her choice and understand why she did what she did.
Posted: 4/14/21 at 5:11pm
ClumsyDude15 said: "MannPhan24601 said: "Karen is a friend of LMM and I remember reading on here that he wrote Angelica specifically for her and she declined to originate. I wonder what he thinks...."
She played Angelica in Hamilton Chicago so I'm sure he's pretty pleased from that. But, he's not involved with Moulin Rouge so I doubt he has much thought on her departing a show he has no connection to.
If he is truly her friend, I would hope he'd support her choice and understand why she did what she did."
I’m sure she is getting lots of texts and messages of support. What she needs is people to join her in saying “no more.”
Posted: 4/14/21 at 5:18pm
BettyBoy - Absolutely and I feel like she'll be getting support in the coming days of people following suit.
Posted: 4/14/21 at 5:39pm
Remember when Bette Midler said of Scott Rudin, “I owe everything to Scott Rudin, who is the greatest producer I have ever worked with in my life” and talked about his “willingness to pay the price...” during her Tony Awards acceptance speech for HELLO, DOLLY?
If not, here’s a refresher: https://youtu.be/PDrhFjDDeo0
I find it shocking and so hypocritical that Bette is so vocal when abuse allegations come out against a Republican (which deserves to be called out!), yet she remains silent on this situation.
Updated On: 4/15/21 at 05:39 PM
Posted: 4/14/21 at 8:13pm
Call_me_jorge said: "While Scott Rudin is directly involved with Moulin Rouge, what the Broadway community has made clear this past week is leadership at every level is in the pockets of someone in relation to Rudin. Either he’s an investor of Moulin Rouge or what, I don’t know."
SR has ZERO involvement in Moulin Rouge -- except maybe he saw it once as a Tony voter.
