Should WICKED Have Won Best Musical Over AVENUE Q? — Page 2

I think we also need to consider that, in awards shows especially, "best" is totally subjective and open to interpretation--best can be best artistically, economically, politically, etc.

You also have to remember the 2004 climate on Broadway. Avenue Q campaigned the hell out of it (Vote With Your Heart), which obviously made an impact.

Avenue Q is superior to Wicked in every way.

Wicked is nothing more than a hodgepodge of what the creators thought would belong in the standard concept of a musical. Ensemble shouting the word "green" or "wicked" for 20 times with their arms up in the air. Incoherent loud notes that come out of nowhere in the strangest places in solo songs. An unnecessary ensemble song here, a sad song there, a funny song there and of course a mandatory loud note here for the effect. That should do it for the sheeps, they must have thought.

It's a turd in tinfoil.

Updated On: 12/9/16 at 07:34 AM

Avenue Q deserved to win. If anything had beaten them, it should have been Caroline or Change.

They're just awards, not anything actually connected to artistic quality. They help market a commercial project, that's all.

I personally think that, of the two, Avenue Q is the superior piece of theatre - it has wit. I find Wicked to be mindless populist teengirl crap (with a score that's not really very good).

"yankeefan7 said: ""longevity does not correlate to awards"

Maybe not but I do think it does say something about a show."

Yes, it says that the show appeals to a lower (therefore more numerous) common denominator.

MrsSallyAdams said: "The libretto keeps all these things offstage like it's a frickin' Greek tragedy."



I think you are confusing Greek tragedy with Chekhov lol

Wicked, Wicked, Wicked!!! What can I stay I left Avenue Q at intermission! Couldn't stand it! And I saw this in the last 2-3 years

I believe both shows are Tony Best Musical "worthy".

Avenue Q was clearly more innovative (with use of puppets) and more cleverly written than Wicked, both in story and score, and was absolutely hilarious. It also gave a satiric reflection of elements of current society at the time which were very powerful.

Wicked had a few more memorable songs (gravity, popular, for good), some originality for the "girl power" twin female leads, fantastic star power (kristin, idina, norbert, joel) some excellent "big show" effects (gravity lift, no good deed lift, flying monkeys) and some strong choreography.

If I were a tony voter, I would have voted for Avenue Q.

ps Ive seen wicked more times than Avenue Q and listen to the Wicked cast recording more often.

I just think the Tony voters got this one right in a choice between two excellent shows....

it may be the best (you'll get no quarrel from me) from the consumer standpoint, but it was decidedly one of the worst from the investor standpoint. And there are more investors who are Tony voters than there are consumers. In fact, the Tony Awards are bought and paid for by the stakeholders so there is no surprise that they do not consider a flop to be the best show very often.

Of all the shows nominated that year, Caroline, or Change deserved to win. It was the most well crafted musical of the bunch. If the Tony's are about awarding excellence in theater (they are not), Caroline is the clear winner.

That being said, I prefer Wicked to Avenue Q any day of the week. Avenue Q's jokes are stale after any repeat viewing, and so much of the show is based on the most yawn-worthy cliches (closeted gay man loves his roommate LOLOLOL, so new and fresh). It mistakes pop culture references and exaggerated foreign accents for actual setup/payoff comedy book writing. Its book consists solely of low hanging fruit, VERY low hanging fruit. And the music is simple and dull. There's nary an actual melody in the whole show.

Wicked's issues are with its grandiosity, with its bigger-is-better attitude to musical theater: sumptuous set pieces, stage flying, a large ensemble, and reach-for-the-rafters ballads. It's probably the most direct Broadway equivalent to the Hollywood blockbuster. It's the Marvel superhero movie of Broadway. Humongous. Capitalist. But it never pretends it's not that. It's not nuanced, but it is competent. You are getting a big budget children's fairy tale. And that's okay! Not to mention, the score has many lovely moments. It's one of the better written scores of the past few decades. Honestly. This is not to say that Wicked is a great musical (it is not), but it's a pleasant night of theater.

And I hate that I even have to say this, but I'll end this post by saying in all caps: THIS IS MY OPINION.

Updated On: 12/9/16 at 03:21 PM

Caroline or Change was the best musical that season. The Public Theater is hated by the Tonys. I have not seen Caroline in whole. But Lot's Wife is one of the best songs ever written. A musical about social change and social justice or lack there of is always good. And I personally think Tonya deserved best actress. It also seemed to be almost as clever as Rent or Hamilton with its many meanings.

Updated On: 12/10/16 at 03:45 AM

Avenue Q is very smartly written, and as time has proven, it's a show for which there's clearly been an audience. If you compare the grosses of Wicked to Avenue Q back in 2003-04, the former was plainly the more commercial entity right out of the gate. Without the "stamp-of-approval" the award provides, it's interesting to ponder, though, if Avenue Q would have had the longevity it's displayed.

Had I been a voter at that time, I would've voted for Q assuming I had that foresight. I think it laid the ground work to tap into a market not usually reached by the traditional Broadway musical. And while the award is certainly not the show's appeal to that demographic, I see it as being necessary to get the more "traditional" theatergoer to go along for the ride, too. For my money, it's about as good of an intersection between artistic merit and commercial appeal that we can expect from the Tonys.