Posted: 11/1/22 at 7:56pm
people have been saying "live theatre is dying!" for years and years and years now and it never has and honestly I don't think it ever will. rough patches will happen but I do not think we need to be concerned about the medium as a whole
Posted: 11/1/22 at 8:31pm
Robbie2 said: "JasonC3 said: "I consume a massive amount of daily national print media (NYT, WSJ, Washington Post, Financial Times, et al) and I certainly don't see daily headlines about crime in NYC."
As a NY'er CRIME is a major problem in NYC it's all over the news and online media."
No. HEADLINES are about crime are a major problem. The actual levels of crime have risen, but are still lower than they were most of the last 3 decades and are still lower than they are in small-town America on average. Don't buy into fear mongering coming from Conservative politicians and media. It's all just meant to manipulate you and make you mad.
Posted: 11/1/22 at 9:05pm
It’s clearly a whole number of factors affecting Broadway right now, it’s concerning. For me the main ones are:
- Ticket prices! They’re just insanely high right now when the whole world is struggling with rising prices. Theatre has become even more of a luxury.
- Tourism. I don’t know the figure but I’d imagine NYC tourism is not at the level it was pre-pandemic? Also for foreign tourists, with many currencies being really weak against the dollar (like the euro and British pound), NYC is just prohibitively expensive, which I’m sure is putting a lot of people off visiting now, or if they do, maybe skipping on Broadway because of the cost.
- lack of compelling shows …. at least for the masses! There’s a reason why Wicked and The Lion King and Book of Norman are still going so strong after all these years. Other than Hamilton what show over the past few years has had that sort of impact? Obviously MJ right now is doing great, but again that’s a show that has mass appeal. Of course there needs to be more inclusive and diverse shows and perspectives on Broadway, but some shows just aren’t going to appeal to everyone. I think Broadway is in danger of becoming too insular.
Posted: 11/1/22 at 9:18pm
I think it’s mostly that last one! And I am happy that shows like Kimberly and KPop and A Strange Loop exist and I can’t wait to see them, but given the world we are in (and even before that) they’d be tough sells. I’d actually think K Pop would be doing a little better.
Almost Famous just feels very “eh.” I never thought it would be any run away success. These old movies turned sub par musicals thing is just tired.
Posted: 11/1/22 at 9:18pm
I was in the city last week. Whereas I used to buy in advance, now I only buy same day. Discounts have dried up (or seats are non-existent when you plug in the codes) and TKTS is more expensive than ever. Even at 50% off many less popular shows are still in the $100 range. Many people left the TKTS line after seeing the price ranges.
I feel only the cream of the crop will survive currently. For top dollar people are going to want to see a “star.” As someone else said, maybe producers create more star vehicles until the economy recovers. People seem to want “event” theatre.
Theatre is very expensive, hotels are very expensive with far fewer deals. People are still struggling in this economy. This winter will be a bloodbath.
As far as crime, the city felt as safe as ever to me. No different than before.
Posted: 11/1/22 at 9:24pm
I was looking at hotels for new years in nyc and they were like 300-500$ which is like… reasonable considering it’s Times Square on New Years.
Posted: 11/1/22 at 9:29pm
SouthernCakes said: "I was looking at hotels for new years in nyc and they were like 300-500$ which is like… reasonable considering it’s Times Square on New Years.
"
Gurl.. stay away from there on New Years. That is expensive considering the human trash you will have to deal with on that night.
Posted: 11/1/22 at 9:55pm
Ha! I’m not staying there nor would I go! Have friend visiting so was just curious, but those prices aren’t expensive for nyc on new years. Just wonder if this year won’t be as crazy as usual? Or maybe nothing new is interesting to audiences.
Posted: 11/1/22 at 10:35pm
MJ dipping below 100% capacity for the first time since July is actually surprising to me, lol. But hey, Phantom is still holding on to that 100%+ capacity since they announced closing.
I was surprised by the capacity numbers for The Old Man and the Pool though, I'm assuming it's mostly papering but is it common for an LCT show to be full in its first week like that?
Always knew KPOP would probably be a tough sell and it's a very imperfect show but damn I hope they find their audience. I'm hoping part of the low grosses now is still part of that $19 preview campaign they ran, but it seems like it just doesn't have a broader appeal. Into the Woods is starting to dip a lot, so I guess it makes sense that they're now offering rush.
Posted: 11/1/22 at 11:17pm
Four of us saw Piano Lesson tonight. Via TDF for $200. Without that hook up, that night at the theater would have cost closer to 1k, and at least $600. Thats just a ton to ask of people unless you are guaranteeing them something amazing--- like the Moulin Rouge brand, like Hamilton mania, like MJ music. I'm honestly surprised Hadestown has lasted as long as it has, because as much as I love the music, if I didnt know the score was so great, would i ever consider paying $500 for me and my family to see a Greek tragedy?
I dont know if there will eventually be a cost correction, or if this is just the new normal, but it seems like for the foreseeable future the choices now are (i) MEGA JUMBO HIT, (ii) LIMITED EVENT WITH FAMOUS PEOPLE, (iii) UNANIMOUS CRITICAL PRAISE--and even this audience will peter out within a year, or (iv) out with a whimper.
Posted: 11/1/22 at 11:54pm
Sadly, I fully agree.
Sorry to say that I predicted exactly what happened with ITW. It’s slide tells me two things: Sara B is absolutely a box office attraction, if anyone had any doubts; and ITW is approaching the point where the guaranteed audience,I.e., Sondheim lovers, is winding down, just like the incredible production of Company. As a minority on this board — I have never loved ITW — I am still disappointed to be reminded that there are a lot of people out there who just won’t go to see see Sondheim shows, which means they continue to have shorter runs than they should.
Posted: 11/2/22 at 12:10am
Some of the "sky is falling" thoughts in this thread and other threads when the grosses are down just make me laugh.
We ALL HAVE KNOWN Broadway is going to take some time to get back to 2019 levels. It's a combination of there still being COVID fears, economic anxiety, international tourism down, Halloween always being a pretty down week and other things. None of this is surprising. It doesn't mean Broadway is dead or dying. It doesn't mean theatre, which has survived as an art form for literally centuries and centuries, is on the decline. It's just a valley in an art form with many peaks and valleys throughout its history. I can't even imagine what this board would have thought about the future of Broadway if it had existed in the sometimes very lean years of the 80s and early 90s when theatres were getting demolished and crime was rampant in Times Square.
Posted: 11/2/22 at 4:20am
Into the Woods will end up having a respectable run while maintaining a solid ticket price average for a sparsely staged production in marketplace conditions that are still pretty challenging. I'd put that in the win column for Mr. Sondheim.
Posted: 11/2/22 at 4:48am
To give examples of why I don't think the world is caving in:
1. Into the Woods - as discussed it has had its steam the same way many Sondheim & other prestigious productions seems to catch on for a few months then die down (e.g. Follies, War Paint, Company etc.). It has no real stars/Sara B has left. I think we'd be seeing similar problems if it were pre-pandemic
2. 1776 - no real stars and poor reviews/word of mouth. Nothing pandemic related
3. A Strange Loop - no real stars, very uncommercial/challenging subject matter. I am surprised that the Tony win didn't solidify its run for longer but there are obvious historical examples where shows win the Tony but don't catch up (e.g. Passion & Sweeney)
4. Almost Famous - no real stars, average/good reviews and word of mouth - doesn't scream box office ignition to me
5. Death of a Salesman - a little sad to see given reviews but plays always find it challenging, there aren't super A-list stars and the play is frequently revived (including with A list stars such as Philip Seymour Hoffman and Dustin Hoffman)
6. Kimberly Akimbo - No real stars, quirky/unknown subject matter
7. Kpop - No real stars (there is a common theme here!)...
I also think it's striking how many new openings we have at this time of year, which is always less desirable than a spring opening due to opening winter slum, lack of Tony nominations etc.
Plus, clearly shows with commercial appeal (MJ, & Juliet, the bunch of older shows like Wicked, Hamilton etc.) and/or Stars (Funny Girl, Music Man, The Piano Lesson etc.) are doing just fine. People speak like the grosses look like 9/11 right now. They don't to me at all, and in fact if you look at the trend for this week over time yes things have dipped slightly since pre-pandemic but barely and it's often challenging at this time. If you were to show this data to someone who doesn't follow Broadway I think they would be surprised at how small the dip is.
Posted: 11/2/22 at 8:01am
I’m concerned about KPOP. It’s doing Chicken & Biscuits numbers at CITS, which isn’t … ideal. I do think there’s a market there for KPOP—beyond the bridge-and-tunnel crowd—but they’re really not tapping into it. They’ve got to find a way to appeal to people on the hallyu (Korean cultural exports) wave. Release music videos. Create social media accounts for the two groups and the star. Immerse people in the world in ways outside of the theatre.
Posted: 11/2/22 at 8:25am
Almost all the new shows are commercial gambles and are gonna take rave reviews and tons of marketing to have a shot.
It would've been so before and it's even more true now.
Posted: 11/2/22 at 9:17am
Prior to the pandemic, I typically visited NY three or four times per year. My first "post" pandemic visit was in October 2021 for the reopening of Phantom. I had planned another trip for June 2022, but COVID forced me to cancel it.
I currently have a trip planned for later this month. For the first time ever, I have several open show slots because I'm leery about getting burned if I should have to cancel again and the ticket prices are just too high. My plan was to see most of the shows I missed in June (Company and The Minutes have since closed), but the price increases over the past five months are making it difficult for me to justify purchasing. I check the prices for A Strange Loop, Take Me Out, and Beetlejuice every day, but there are still a LOT of seats available for both shows and I am simply unable to justify the prices.
Posted: 11/2/22 at 9:44am
International tourism is still way down in the United States and Broadway relies on international tourism. It's why Phantom's numbers were down to begin with; Phantom sold incredibly well with international tourists. In addition, NYC has gotten ridiculously expensive post pandemic, especially with several of the largest hotels in midtown still not having reopened or being used as refugee housing. Rooms are running in the $4-500 range, parking is close to $50 a day, and ticket prices are super high. My last trip in, we bought all of our tickets through Rush and TDF; very few in the middle class can afford to buy tickets ahead of time unless we want to sit in the rear balcony. And justifying close to $100 for the worst seats in the house is very hard anymore. Broadway and NYC have got to get their costs under control if they want to see tourism rebound. Instead, the theatre heads live lavish lifestyles and flaunt their wealth online (Jordan Roth).
Posted: 11/2/22 at 9:49am
MissFlite said: "Wouldn't it help to have a tough-ticket blockbuster? Brings people into town then they catch a few other shows on the same trip?"
I mean, The Music Man is sort of that, right? It's not selling OUT every show, but I've noticed plenty of people planning their New York trips around coming to see it in particular and then also taking into another couple of shows. The loss of its $3 million (+/-) weekly contribution to the total is going to be a real bummer this winter.
Posted: 11/2/22 at 9:58am
bholtzinger544 said: "International tourism is still way down in the United States and Broadway relies on international tourism. It's why Phantom's numbers were down to begin with; Phantom sold incredibly well with international tourists. In addition, NYC has gotten ridiculously expensive post pandemic, especially with several of the largest hotels in midtown still not having reopened or being used as refugee housing. Rooms are running in the $4-500 range, parking is close to $50 a day, and ticket prices are super high. My last trip in, we bought all of our tickets through Rush and TDF; very few in the middle class can afford to buy tickets ahead of time unless we want to sit in the rear balcony. And justifying close to $100 for the worst seats in the house is very hard anymore. Broadway and NYC have got to get their costs under control if they want to see tourism rebound. Instead, the theatre heads live lavish lifestyles and flaunt their wealth online (Jordan Roth)."
As someone who moved out of the city during the pandemic, I can say little here interests me enough to come back and see a show. The only shows I'm excited to see are Kimberly/A Strange Loop as I don't think we'll see those shows outside of a NYC setting. However, even shows like Some Like It Hot or & Juliet, I'll just see on tour at some point and aren't exactly shows I'd spend the time/money on.
Posted: 11/2/22 at 11:50am
Four different personal stories that relate to this…
1. I still do not feel comfortable attending Broadway shows now that the vaccine AND mask mandates have both been dropped. Since July, I have seen Into the Woods (because I already had a ticket prior to the mask announcement), American Buffalo (because they kept the mask mandate), and Little Shop of Horrors (because they kept their mask mandate). I understand this is an irrational decision to most, but, it is what it is, and I’m working on it (see point 2 lol)
2. Pricing is outrageous right now. My cousin and I are debating going at the end of November or beginning of December and the “discounts” are a joke. With a discount, tickets are still well over $100 for a less than decent seat (rear mezz). I am a member of TDF and plan to use them, if a weekend date appears for the shows we want to see.
3. The same cousin who shares price concerns with me, also has a concern about how safe the city is. She is from CT, I am from NJ. If we do decide to go later this month, she is having her husband join us because she does not want to take the train or walk by herself, due to what she sees and hears on the news.
4. My 70 year old Mother absolutely refuses to go into the city anymore also due to crime. She reads the NY Post (unfortunately that’s the paper my parents get), and watches ABC news. Every time I tell her I’m heading in, she asks “why?”.
So for my family, it’s a mixture of all of the above that people have mentioned already - Covid, “crime”, and pricing.
Updated On: 11/2/22 at 11:50 AM
Posted: 11/2/22 at 4:28pm
Hairspray0901 said: "Four different personal stories that relate to this…
1. I still do not feel comfortable attending Broadway shows now that the vaccine AND mask mandates have both been dropped. Since July, I have seen Into the Woods (because I already had a ticket prior to the mask announcement), American Buffalo (because they kept the mask mandate), and Little Shop of Horrors (because they kept their mask mandate). I understand this is an irrational decision to most, but, it is what it is, and I’m working on it (see point 2 lol)
2. Pricing is outrageous right now. My cousin and I are debating going at the end of November or beginning of December and the “discounts” are a joke. With a discount, tickets are still well over $100 for a less than decent seat (rear mezz). I am a member of TDF and plan to use them, if a weekend date appears for the shows we want to see.
3. The same cousin who shares price concerns with me, also has a concern about how safe the city is. She is from CT, I am from NJ. If we do decide to go later this month, she is having her husband join us because she does not want to take the train or walk by herself, due to what she sees and hears on the news.
4. My 70 year old Mother absolutely refuses to go into the city anymore also due to crime. She reads the NY Post (unfortunately that’s the paper my parents get), and watches ABC news. Every time I tell her I’m heading in, she asks “why?”.
So for my family, it’s a mixture of all of the above that people have mentioned already - Covid, “crime”, and pricing."
Just want to mention about your point 1: No one should berate you for that. COVID is still out there, it is real, and you are completely entitled to how you feel in regards to not feeling safe right now. No one has the right to tell you otherwise.
Posted: 11/3/22 at 4:13am
Re tourism, reports if crime etc... Was just was speaking to a lady who works in my same building this week who got back from a trip to visit elderly relatives living in Westchester. She said when she planned a day trip into the city, her aunt gave her nothing but grief, warning her about how dangerous the city was, certain she would be assaulted. We laughed - our building in the worst neighborhood in all of Canada. There's nothing in Manhattan as bad as what we risk every day.
She said her day alone in NYC was marvelous. She walked all the way from Times Square down to One World & felt totally safe.
If anything exchange rates are killing tourism. I just went down to Seattle for the weekend & when I got US cash at my bank it cost me $1.40 CAN for $1 US. I know people traveling from the UK are crying right now too.
For myself, I just grin & bear it. When it comes to shopping, there are so many more options than what I can find North of the border for so many items. An example: a case of Belgian Moon - almost all the liquor stores in British Columbia have been out of stock since August but there's plenty at every Walmart & Target etc in Washington. AND even with the lousy exchange rate it was STILL cheaper than what it costs here with all our extra taxes. Another example: Dial brand bar soap hasn't been available anywhere here since last spring. I didn't want to overload my luggage on the last couple flights I made to the US, but since I was driving this weekend I went into a Target & bought every frigging package of the scent I prefer. I must have looked like a crazy man walking to the cash because I didn't grab a basket on my way into the store & then was trying to balance this huge armload of slippery packages.
Back to Broadway...I'm still coming back, but I am being more selective than ever about what price point I am willing to choose. Those $114 balcony seats at the Schubert are looking better & better. I can always bring binoculars.
Posted: 11/3/22 at 4:25am
Hairspray0901,
Not that you need my approval, but I’m with you on vaccination and mask mandates. And I do hate it when you buy tickets for a show and they change the rules. (It just happened at a show I’ll be seeing in Berkeley this weekend, though in fairness, they did offer a couple of performances where masks are required.)
COVID-19 cautiousness affects me on the margins. If it’s a theater that has no requirements, I might still go (often the only person in my tow wearing a mask), but I had better really want to see the show. I’ve passed on several shows when I just don’t want to see it enough to take the risk.
It’s interesting to read all of this, because my recent experiences in the San Francisco Bay Area were completely different. Two popular touring productions (To Kill a Mockingbird and Moulin Rouge) played to nearly packed theaters (at least in the orchestra). The same was true when I have seen several Berkeley Rep productions. A San Francisco Playhouse production of Indecent is doing well enough that they added a Sunday evening show. And the Shotgun Players’ West Coast premiere of Great Comet is already sold out for much of its two-month run.
And I have snagged cheap tickets for almost every show I’ve seen, mostly on TodayTix. San Francisco, of course, has a reputation as a crime-ridden hellhole. There are issues, especially near the touring houses in the Tenderloin, but it’s being exaggerated for media and political purposes.
My daughters were able to get decent prices on Broadway shows earlier this year. One is going this weekend for a concert but is staying in New Jersey because she couldn’t find a reasonably priced hotel. That was her only gripe.
Updated On: 11/3/22 at 04:25 AM
