JAGGED LITTLE PILL announces reopening dates and replacements (UPDATED)- Page 9

[songanddanceman2]

Posted: 9/25/21 at 11:02pm

Yeah close the show because of the actions of a few. You guys are disgusting, after all theatre has had to overcome to get back open, and keyboard warriors on here are now wishing the show to close. You guys arent theatre fans who are saying this, you are disgusting bottom feeders.

Note, this is only aimed at the ones who seem to be wanting this to close.

[RippedMan]

Posted: 9/25/21 at 11:13pm

No, I get it. The character is vague, and maybe people want more inclusion in the gender identity, but then doesn't that kind of negate the point? Like, you want us to be SUPER specific about someone's gender? Who cares. The character is the character. People are dying. People are starving. Who cares. Move on. 

[HogansHero]

Posted: 9/25/21 at 11:33pm

@songand dance "You guys arent theatre fans who are saying this, you are disgusting bottom feeders.

Note, this is only aimed at the ones who seem to be wanting this to close."

Could you identify the presence of these disgusting bottom feeders (a few post numbers would suffice) as I can't seem to find the targets of your wrath... 

[gibsons2]

Posted: 9/26/21 at 12:02am

Jordan Catalano said: "Honestly, I couldn’t care less what happens to this show. What i DO worry about though, is any of this backlash rubbing off on Alanis. And even though she’s not involved in the production like that, I don’t put it past any of the diehard fans/critics to try and put some of the blame on her. "

Why in the world would this ever rub off on her? What does she personally have to do with it? Have you been at her latest concerts and seen people who attend them? These aren't type of rabid people who are wishing to shut down the show because of the mistakes of a few. 

[BroadwayGirl107]

Posted: 9/26/21 at 12:13am

Jordan Catalano said: "Honestly, I couldn’t care less what happens to this show. What i DO worry about though, is any of this backlash rubbing off on Alanis. And even though she’s not involved in the production like that, I don’t put it past any of the diehard fans/critics to try and put some of the blame on her. "
 

I don’t think any of this is rubbing off on Alanis. I honestly even think when people talk about the creative team, they mean Diablo Cody and Diane Paulus. Was Alanis even present at rehearsals? I feel like maybe she popped in once or twice. 

 

[Jordan Catalano]

Posted: 9/26/21 at 12:17am

There are few things on this planet I adore more than Alanis, hence my (probably silly) worry that any of this would effect her.

[Tag]

Posted: 9/26/21 at 12:22am

When I think of this show I barely even think of Alanis.  They butchered her songs, and she has almost nothing to do with the production.

[Globefan]

Posted: 9/26/21 at 12:42am

I don't think Diablo was responsible for anything apart from writing. 

[BroadwayGirl107]

Posted: 9/26/21 at 1:17am

Globefan said: "I don't think Diablo was responsible for anything apart from writing."

Given the controversy surrounding the character of Jo, I'd say being the writer her might make her the most responsible for that then, lol. If you're going to hire a cis actor from your first draft, just write a character that matches the actor's identity. 

[uncageg]

Posted: 9/26/21 at 1:47am

BroadwayGirl107 said: "Globefan said: "I don't think Diablo was responsible for anything apart from writing."

Given the controversy surrounding the character of Jo, I'd say being the writer her might make her the most responsible for that then, lol. If you're going to hire a cis actor from your first draft, just write a character that matches the actor's identity."

But that's not how it works. So what if an actor who's "identity" (And there are enough of them) doesn't match, but gives the best audition? Do they say "sorry, you were great but unfortunately the character is a they and you identify as she, so we can't give you the part. And They will be really mad if we don't cast a they."?

 It is called acting for a reason. The writers aren't out to satisfy everyone who has a hissy fit because they cast a person who doesn't fit the identity of the character. So then what, do actor's start changing their identity to get a role? And then will it get to a point where there will be anger over a writer who creates a character out of their identity because the writer doesn't identify?

Writers and actors don't just jump in a do the show. They do research to understand characters. But that still isn't enough for some people.

 

Updated On: 9/26/21 at 01:47 AM

[BroadwayGirl107]

Posted: 9/26/21 at 2:01am

uncageg said: "BroadwayGirl107 said: "Globefan said: "I don't think Diablo was responsible for anything apart from writing."

Given the controversy surrounding the character of Jo, I'd say being the writer her might make her the most responsible for that then, lol. If you're going to hire a cis actor from your first draft, just write a character that matches the actor's identity."

But that's not how it works. So what if an actor who's "identity" (And there are enough of them) doesn't match, but gives the best audition? Do they say "sorry, you were great but unfortunately the character is a they and you identify as she, so we can't give you the part. And They will be really mad if we don't cast a they."?

It is called acting for a reason. The writers aren't out to satisfy everyone who has a hissy fit because they cast a person who doesn't fit the identity of the character. So then what, do actor's start changing their identity to get a role? And then will it get to a point where there will be anger over a writer who creates a character out of their identity because the writer doesn't identify?

Writers and actors don't just jump in a do the show. They do research to understand characters. But that still isn't enough for some people.

"

I mean that’s kinda my point? If Patten was the best for the role (which I believe because she was extraordinary in this show), they’d be crazy to urn her away.  just…make the character butch but cis. We know people throw hissy fits about politics. Just avoid it in this instance. It doesn’t matter if Jo is cis or non-binary or trans—the show works any of those ways. But I feel like Cody was so set on putting another “ISSUE” into her script she couldn’t let that go. 

[uncageg]

Posted: 9/26/21 at 2:09am

BroadwayGirl107 said: "uncageg said: "BroadwayGirl107 said: "Globefan said: "I don't think Diablo was responsible for anything apart from writing."

Given the controversy surrounding the character of Jo, I'd say being the writer her might make her the most responsible for that then, lol. If you're going to hire a cis actor from your first draft, just write a character that matches the actor's identity."

But that's not how it works. So what if an actor who's "identity" (And there are enough of them) doesn't match, but gives the best audition? Do they say "sorry, you were great but unfortunately the character is a they and you identify as she, so we can't give you the part. And They will be really mad if we don't cast a they."?

It is called acting for a reason. The writers aren't out to satisfy everyone who has a hissy fit because they cast a person who doesn't fit the identity of the character. So then what, do actor's start changing their identity to get a role? And then will it get to a point where there will be anger over a writer who creates a character out of their identity because the writer doesn't identify?

Writers and actors don't just jump in a do the show. They do research to understand characters. But that still isn't enough for some people.

"

I mean that’s kinda my point? If Patten was the best for the role (which I believe because she was extraordinary in this show), they’d be crazy to urn her away. just…make the character butch but cis. We knowpeople throw hissy fits about politics. Just avoid it in this instance. It doesn’t matter if Jo is cis or non-binary or trans—the show works any of those ways. But I feel like Cody was so set on putting another “ISSUE” into her script she couldn’t let that go."

I loved how the character of Jo was portrayed on Broadway. And even as a gay man, I identified with her. She was a teen who was trying to figure out and deal with her identity and sexual orientation and being a teen.Like me when I was a teenager. I thought it all came through Patten's performance. And by the time she got to "you Outta Know" all of that rage and confision and confusion was laid bare. JMO

 

[Impeach2017]

Posted: 9/26/21 at 4:08am

I'd like to see people start to fight back against unsubstantiated accusations that are clearly meant to destroy careers and derail entire shows.  But when the instigators of the mobs have legions of followers ready to blindly do their bidding without regard to due process or proof of any kind, they may have no choice but to fold up their tents and move on.  It's a pity, because in the future they will avoid this third rail like the plague.

 

 

at the

 

[Dolly80]

Posted: 9/26/21 at 5:57am

I suspect if the mob keep going with their campaign to have Jo recast- that Lauren will feel compelled to resign.

She (and Stanley) are the only good things about this tiresome show. I hope she wins the Tony, leaves the show, and gets a role in a show worthy of her talents.

[Valentina3]

Posted: 9/26/21 at 9:52am

uncageg said: "BroadwayGirl107 said: "Globefan said: "I don't think Diablo was responsible for anything apart from writing."

Given the controversy surrounding the character of Jo, I'd say being the writer her might make her the most responsible for that then, lol. If you're going to hire a cis actor from your first draft, just write a character that matches the actor's identity."

But that's not how it works. So what if an actor who's "identity" (And there are enough of them) doesn't match, but gives the best audition? Do they say "sorry, you were great but unfortunately the character is a they and you identify as she, so we can't give you the part. And They will be really mad if we don't cast a they."?

It is called acting for a reason. The writers aren't out to satisfy everyone who has a hissy fit because they cast a person who doesn't fit the identity of the character. So then what, do actor's start changing their identity to get a role? And then will it get to a point where there will be anger over a writer who creates a character out of their identity because the writer doesn't identify?

Writers and actors don't just jump in a do the show. They do research to understand characters. But that still isn't enough for some people."

For some reason, this has been difficult to internalize for even the most open minded people. But let's break this down. 

If a male-indentifying actor wants to portray Mrs Lovett and gives the best audition ever, would John Doyle cast him as Mrs Lovett and not expect changes to be made to the production/text to reflect that very conscious and specific casting choice? It would appear downright homophobic for this male actor to be pining after Sweeney, singing "ohhh mister Todd" without that.

Diane Paulus is currently working on a "gender"-reversed production of 1776. That production will absolutely not work if these female identifying and presenting actors *pretend* they are men on stage via dumb gimmicks like a moustache or some crap. It's a very conscious and actively subversive choice for the production. It will need to be reconceived to make sense. Company revival would be confusing as heck if they had taken Lenk and dropped her in middle of original Dean Jones production.

Until the idea of non-binary and transgender identities are not deeply internalized and normalized in our society, our brains will force us to think in the binary "if this, then this" way. The best trick to rewire that thinking that my casting director friend told me they follow is actually flip the script of "non"binary and just think of each individual identity as an actual gender. If you're going to cast an actor of "male" gender to character of "female" gender, your production needs to justify and honor that choice. Similarly, if you cast a "female" gender actor to a "non-binary" character - you better be able to justify that casting choice or truly expect criticism. I know this can be considered a horribly regressive way to think about this, but it works better than just pretending that all people can wake up and start understanding what non-binary means just because they read about it in or have someone tell them once or twice.

I am a cisgender femme guy, and when I saw this show at ART, Jo was absolutely written to be a non-binary character and Patten portrayed it as such. Her "You oughta know" brought the house down, and it was a powerful and very well done performance. I actually saw her at Medium Allison before on Broadway and already liked her. I guess I assumed that Patten identified as non-binary, because of how "woke" this production was...surely they wouldn't mess up the casting? But alas, how wrong I was.

[BroadwayGirl107]

Posted: 9/26/21 at 9:53am

uncageg said: "BroadwayGirl107 said: "uncageg said: "BroadwayGirl107 said: "Globefan said: "I don't think Diablo was responsible for anything apart from writing."

Given the controversy surrounding the character of Jo, I'd say being the writer her might make her the most responsible for that then, lol. If you're going to hire a cis actor from your first draft, just write a character that matches the actor's identity."

But that's not how it works. So what if an actor who's "identity" (And there are enough of them) doesn't match, but gives the best audition? Do they say "sorry, you were great but unfortunately the character is a they and you identify as she, so we can't give you the part. And They will be really mad if we don't cast a they."?

It is called acting for a reason. The writers aren't out to satisfy everyone who has a hissy fit because they cast a person who doesn't fit the identity of the character. So then what, do actor's start changing their identity to get a role? And then will it get to a point where there will be anger over a writer who creates a character out of their identity because the writer doesn't identify?

Writers and actors don't just jump in a do the show. They do research to understand characters. But that still isn't enough for some people.

"

I mean that’s kinda my point? If Patten was the best for the role (which I believe because she was extraordinary in this show), they’d be crazy to urn her away. just…make the character butch but cis. We knowpeople throw hissy fits about politics. Just avoid it in this instance. It doesn’t matter if Jo is cis or non-binary or trans—the show works any of those ways. But I feel like Cody was so set on putting another “ISSUE” into her script she couldn’t let that go."

I loved how the character of Jo was portrayed on Broadway. And even as a gay man, I identified with her. She was a teen who was trying to figure out and deal with her identity and sexual orientation and being a teen.Like me when I was a teenager.I thought it all came through Patten's performance. And by the time she got to "you Outta Know" all of that rage and confision and confusion was laid bare. JMO

"
 

I enjoy your response here because it shows me that the “controversy” isn’t even clear or known to people who pay enough attention to Broadway to join a Broadway message board, lol. 

 

[PipingHotPiccolo]

Posted: 9/26/21 at 10:15am

i should clarify/mea culpa the above. i said this wouldnt get mainstream press and thats wrong- the story (especially once the producers responded) is all over. i meant, but didnt come close to articulating, that the idea of protesting this show or rendering it "canceled" as inappropriate and unworthy of support, would never ever go beyond a tiny fraction of perennially offended people on social media. 

i can tell you that assuming every allegation is true and the stage manager/producers were super insensitive to one of their actors, it wouldn't make me think twice about suffering through this show again to see Heidi B. B. 

[EDSOSLO858]

Posted: 9/26/21 at 10:51am

Should I even bother starting a reopening night thread for this show? Will there be anyone left on these boards who will dare to see this again?

[Lunalaaaaaaaa]

Posted: 9/26/21 at 11:01am

Not sure why Diablo and Diane (the creators of JLP) didn't release their own statement? Unless they are more focused on The Tony Awards right now and might release a statement afterward.

Updated On: 9/26/21 at 11:01 AM

[BroadwayGirl107]

Posted: 9/26/21 at 11:04am

Lunalaaaaaaaa said: "Not sure why Diablo and Rachel (the writers of JLP) didn't release their own statement? Unless they are more focused on The Tony Awards right now and might release a statement afterward."

 

A statement about what exactly? 

 

[Lunalaaaaaaaa]

Posted: 9/26/21 at 11:08am

Um do you not know what we're talking about right now?

[ACL2006]

Posted: 9/26/21 at 11:12am

Alanis was there for rehearsals and most of tech. If Lauren wins the Tony today, I'd say that'll put more of a spotlight on this.

[BroadwayGirl107]

Posted: 9/26/21 at 11:22am

Lunalaaaaaaaa said: "Um do you not know what we're talking about right now? "

I’m not sure if you’re talking about Nora or the character of Jo. Either way, I’m not sure why she would make a statement. Producers have already made statements about both. It would be weird—and potentially legally complicated with Nora’s allegations, given that there is an active investigation— for everyone to make statements. 

[SouthernCakes]

Posted: 9/26/21 at 11:38am

But what would the statement say? Sorry y’all don’t like the way I wrote a character? Lordy who cares.

[Jordan Catalano]

Posted: 9/26/21 at 11:45am

Yeah I’ve already said that I can’t believe we’re at a place in society where people are demanding artists apologize for their work.