Michael Jackson musical...new documentary- Page 2

[Dave28282]

Posted: 3/5/19 at 4:30pm

I would actually be shocked if the show is taken down, because there has been a trial already, and the boys, including these 2 have sworn nothing happened.

They happen to be looking for fame, followers and fortune and the parents are quite peculiar too.

Let the man rest. 

[n2nbaby]

Posted: 3/5/19 at 4:37pm

Dave28282 said: "I would actually be shocked if the show is taken down, because there has been a trial already, and the boys, including these 2 have sworn nothing happened.

They happen to be looking for fame, followers and fortune and the parents are quite peculiar too.

Let the man rest."

Yes, they testified as children, after Michael Jackson said that if anyone ever found out about them, they would be in jail forever. I can’t imagine WHY they would have lied... This excuse of “but they already said nothing happened!” is ridiculous and shows how little people know about sexual abuse. People need to stop.

 

Whether Michael Jackson did what is said or not, he was clearly a very disturbed man and the American public gave him many free passes. If these boys parents were “peculiar,” so were all of us because he paraded these boys around and nobody ever batted an eye. We knew he was having sleepovers with children but people stood behind him.

 

I am just shocked in the middle of the #metoo movement that people are doubting these guys. The documentary (which was VERY well done) went into detail about everything from “doing it for fame/money” among other things. 

[JBroadway]

Posted: 3/5/19 at 4:40pm

Dave28282 said: "I would actually be shocked if the show is taken down, because there has been a trial already, and the boys, including these 2 have sworn nothing happened.

They happen to be looking for fame, followers and fortune and the parents are quite peculiar too.

Let the man rest."

 

Why would you be shocked just because you disagree? Even if you don't believe the boys (which I do, for the record, but that's beside the point), it shouldn't be a shock to anyone if the plug gets pulled, given the recent trend of sexual assault allegations shutting down careers and projects.  What we personally believe has little relevance to what the producers choose to do. 

 

[Blockhead24]

Posted: 3/5/19 at 4:44pm

OKBroadwayFan said: "Is the Vegas show about his life or is it utilizing his music?
"

It utilizes his music.

[Dave28282]

Posted: 3/5/19 at 4:47pm

I think the parents of these boys found the money and fame a little too interesting from the beginning.

And I would be shocked if the show is pulled down, because it can't be right that anyone can shout anything in the media and a career is ruined. Indeed, nobody's opinion matters before a judge has made his judgement about a legal case. So taking down a show because someone screams something is ridiculous and that should not be the direction for the future. It will be very easy to gain attention, money and fame that way and ruin careers of competitors. 

Updated On: 3/5/19 at 04:47 PM

[Marlothom]

Posted: 3/5/19 at 4:50pm

It utilizes his music but it's also "kinda" about him - they have his images and videos.  It's bee a few years since I saw it, but I believe they have 4 or 5 people who "turn into MJ" when they put on his clothing and do a number but these numbers/staging is really a commentary about him, Leave Me Alone, for example.  

[Call_me_jorge]

Posted: 3/5/19 at 4:51pm

I could see possibly the show could be written in an anti Jackson fashion... but that could be a turn off for his followers and his estate. I will be curious to see how this pans out. I’d feel bad for Lynn nottage and Christopher Wheeldon being out of a job, though.

[AEA AGMA SM]

Posted: 3/5/19 at 5:05pm

Call_me_jorge said: "I could see possibly the show could be written in an anti Jackson fashion... but that could be a turn off for his followers and his estate."

There is no way his estate does not have script approval, and there is no way they would EVER allow the show to be anti-Jackson.

You can bet your life that whoever ends up writing this script (whether Nottage stays attached or not) is going to have to have on the biggest pair of rose-colored glasses ever.

[Impossible2]

Posted: 3/5/19 at 5:10pm

I was a huge fan, never believed it for a second, but I believe these 2 after watching the film and Oprah.

Am I going to burn all my Jackson cds and never play them again, no. Nor does what he did take anything away from his talent. And even though he was a extremely sick man, I still have empathy for him as he obviously had the most horrendous of childhoods himself.

For me the sexual stuff was not as shocking as the mental abuse he put the children and the families through. He was predator who used his fame to play games and destroy people. 

I don't think the film is so much about him, as it is about predators and victims using him as a model for how these people work.

[Kimbo]

Posted: 3/5/19 at 5:11pm

Call_me_jorge said: "I could see possibly the show could be written in an anti Jackson fashion... but that could be a turn off for his followers and his estate.“

 

This has been documented elsewhere but the Jackson estate has full creative control over the show, so it’s impossible to conceive of any version that even alludes to the controversy. Similarly, as someone else has said above, it’s difficult to imagine Nottage wanting to remain on the project if she can’t find a way to make it a darker show than the Jackson estate would feel comfortable with. And even if she did, and even if the estate was comfortable with it, is that a show that people would want to see (or that investors would want to put money in)?

Two or three years ago I would’ve said this had the potential to be the biggest jukebox musical in history. Now, all I see (and all any theatre owner and most producers would see) is endless questions about whether the show is appropriate, likely protests outside the theatre, not a single article about the show that doesn’t mention the (alleged) abuses, and likely the near-complete loss of family audiences. 

Two or three years ago I would’ve said this would be bigger than Mamma Mia, Beautiful and American Idiot combined, but no longer. Simply put, the property is now a hot potato that hardly anyone will want anything to do with. The Jackson estate may claim the show is moving forward for now- but in the end they won’t want to damage his legacy even further by having a Michael Jackson bio-musical go down in flames even faster and harder than jukebox musicals from The Go-Go’s and Jimmy Buffett. 

[bwayrose7]

Posted: 3/5/19 at 5:22pm

Dave28282 said: "I would actually be shocked if the show is taken down, because there has been a trial already, and the boys, including these 2 have sworn nothing happened.

They happen to be looking for fame, followers and fortune and the parents are quite peculiar too.

Let the man rest."

Apologies if this takes the thread off topic (I will gladly delete if need be), but I find it so frustrating when this "they want fame!" line is trotted out as a reason why victims come forward with allegations of abuse. Take a look at the way the vast majority of accusers are treated: some believe them, yes, but they also wind up reliving horrible trauma, having their entire lives picked apart by people who want to discredit them, often getting so much attention and harassment that their lives are turned upside down. This is even bigger when it's alleging abuse by someone with a passionate, devoted fan base (like Jackson) - so please, tell me more about the amazing benefits of becoming "famous" for claiming abuse by a powerful and/or beloved public figure?

As others in this thread have pointed out, Jackson has and always will have his defenders; his musical legacy continues to rake in the money. I can't imagine going up against that kind of machine or ever truly thinking that the "fortune" could outweigh the negative attention and harassment.

[Impossible2]

Posted: 3/5/19 at 5:24pm

bwayrose7 said: "Dave28282 said: "I would actually be shocked if the show is taken down, because there has been a trial already, and the boys, including these 2 have sworn nothing happened.

They happen to be looking for fame, followers and fortune and the parents are quite peculiar too.

Let the man rest."

Apologies if this takes the thread off topic (I will gladly delete if need be), but I find it so frustrating when this "they want fame!" line is trotted out as a reason why victims come forward with allegations of abuse. Take a look at the way the vast majority of accusers are treated: some believe them, yes, but they also wind up reliving horrible trauma, having their entire lives picked apart by people who want to discredit them, often getting so much attention and harassment that their lives are turned upside down. This is even bigger when it's alleging abuse by someone with a passionate, devoted fan base (like Jackson) - so please, tell me more about the amazing benefits of becoming "famous" for claiming abuse by a powerful and/or beloved public figure?

As others in this thread have pointed out, Jackson has and always will have his defenders; his musical legacy continues to rake in the money. I can't imagine going up against that kind of machine or ever truly thinking that the "fortune" could outweigh the negative attention and harassment."

Exactly. People also seem to have no idea how trauma works, especially childhood trauma.

[Kad]

Posted: 3/5/19 at 5:25pm

There is no clear solution to the question of Jackson's legacy. But in death, he should not be made untouchable- particularly when he is more successful in death than he was in the last decade of his life and now protected by a immensely wealthy and powerful estate. Not while his alleged victims are very much alive. He may be a decade deceased, but his actions are very much reverberating through the living. 

People can listen to and treasure his music, if they can deal with the fact it came from someone who, at the very least, was deeply troubled and emotionally manipulative or abusive, and, at the very worst, was a serial sexual abuser of children. But the last thing we need is a Jackson Estate-sanctioned musical hagiography. And I don't see what the upside is to having it continue, unless the estate thinks the gamble is worth it if it means it can thumb its nose at critics. 

And, from my view, it seems the entity most concerned with their fame and fortune in this situation is the Jackson Estate. 

Updated On: 3/5/19 at 05:25 PM

[Dave28282]

Posted: 3/5/19 at 5:30pm

bwayrose7 said: "I can't imagine truly thinking that the "fortune" could outweigh the negative attention and harassment."

Ask Jussie Smollett that. Negative attention or a victim role are also attention. 

I believe the parents of these boys have always been very interested in Michael's fame and have accepted money before. They have a choice now to either be complete nobody's who once knew him or to be well known, use it and maybe earn a sum of money (again). It's not that far fetched.

The most important thing is that nobody draws any conclusion before a judge has done it. 

Updated On: 3/5/19 at 05:30 PM

[ColorTheHours048]

Posted: 3/5/19 at 5:31pm

I have no reason not to believe Wade Robson and James Safechuck. Michael Jackson’s personal life always gave me the creeps, even as a child growing up. A grown man having private sleepovers with children he deems “friends” is disturbing on so many levels by itself, and those are situations he freely admitted to engaging in. Then, you add in the factor of psychological and sexual abuse and it goes to a whole other level. It is, sadly, not altogether shocking to hear that all the things you could intuit happening behind closed doors at those sleepovers probably did happen. It is unfortunate he’s not alive to defend himself, but I don’t doubt for a second that Robson and Safechuck are telling the truth.

This show is dead. If it goes forward, it will be an inaccurate portrait of a very sick man.

[East Village]

Posted: 3/5/19 at 5:32pm

Michael Jackson was a serial rapist of children.

The story is out now. Complete with the Oprah Winfrey interview.

The Michael Jackson brand is dead .

[Kad]

Posted: 3/5/19 at 5:33pm

Dave28282 said: "bwayrose7 said: "I can't imaginetruly thinking that the "fortune" could outweigh the negative attention and harassment."

Ask Jussie Smollett that. Negative attention or a victim role are alsoattention.

I believe the parents of these boys have always been very interested in Michael's fame and have accepted money before. They have a choice now to be complete nobody's or be well known and maybe earn a sum of money. It's not that far fetched.

The most important thing is that nobody draws any conclusion before a judge has done it."

One of these men is already an extremely well-regarded and successful choreographer for pop stars. The mothers of both men have said they let Jackson's fame and fortune blind them thirty years ago.  

And who has ever gotten famous for being a victim of sexual abuse? 

 

Updated On: 3/5/19 at 05:33 PM

[haterobics]

Posted: 3/5/19 at 5:36pm

Dave28282 said: "The most important thing is that nobody draws any conclusion before a judge has done it."

That may prove difficult, given their lawsuit was dismissed for being filed too long after his death.

There is an appeal, but without a change in the law based on how sexual trauma works as far as the statute of limitations, it would also likely be denied.

That said, judging from Twitter last night, and the comments on the two Michael Jackson concerts the estate put on YouTube as counterprogramming to the documentary, there is certainly enough interest in him and enough people who will blindly refuse to believe any of this, seemingly enough to fill a theater 8X a week.

[Dave28282]

Posted: 3/5/19 at 5:37pm

Kad said: "One of these menis already an extremely well-regarded and successful choreographer for pop stars. The mothers of both men have said they let Jackson's fame and fortune blind them thirty years ago."

And yet, I have never heard of him, and I do now.

About the parents, that's what I meant. Being very blinded by fortune and fame doesn't just disappear like that.

Updated On: 3/5/19 at 05:37 PM

[Kad]

Posted: 3/5/19 at 5:47pm

Being a parent of a child trying to make it in showbiz approached by the King of Pop in his heyday is very different than being much older person having seen the effects of their actions thirty years later.

and you’ll excuse me if I find whether or not you know of someone a totally absurd barometer of success.

Updated On: 3/5/19 at 05:47 PM

[OKBroadwayFan]

Posted: 3/5/19 at 5:54pm

haterobics said: "Dave28282 said: "The most important thing is that nobody draws any conclusion before a judge has done it."

That may prove difficult, given their lawsuit was dismissed for being filed too long after his death.

There is an appeal, but without a change in the law based on how sexual trauma works as far as the statute of limitations, it would also likely be denied.

That said, judging from Twitter last night, and the comments on the two Michael Jackson concerts the estate put on YouTube as counterprogramming to the documentary, there is certainly enough interest in him and enough people who will blindly refuse to believe any of this, seemingly enough to fill a theater 8X a week."

Bottom line it is up to each ticket holder to determine if they want to watch a show about Michael Jackson.      

[Dave28282]

Posted: 3/5/19 at 5:58pm

Knowing someone and success are 2 different things. But it also could just be money.

If it really was about being noble, getting over personal trauma and finding inner peace, dragging someone through the mud that has been dead for 10 years really isn't the solution. I would assume you would handle that a bit more privately. Come to terms with yourself and your parents. Away from public negativity. Maybe having a talk with your parents about why they were so blinded by the fame and fortune and the men could have explained to them why they are against that standpoint and why it's all about inner peace and maybe explain to them why the fame and public opinion does not matter at all. If that's their opinion of course. But that's between them.

 

 

Updated On: 3/5/19 at 05:58 PM

[sinister teashop]

Posted: 3/5/19 at 5:59pm

I think perhaps only a Shakespeare could make sense of Michael Jackson. Even if Lynn Nottage were up to the task of getting to the layers of tragedy and exploitation in MJ's life, I doubt if the Jackson estate would let her go there. If I were her I'd run from this project if she still can.

[bowtie7]

Posted: 3/5/19 at 6:17pm

Now is just not the time to launch a Michael Jackson musical.

Maybe Lynn Nottage should instead write a serious drama about an author trying to figure out how to write a play about a very famous performer who's controversies won't go away but who's artistic achievements are still loved--seems a better use of her talents than a musical that has to be interrupted by another hit song every 3 minutes.

But also remember, Michael Jackson's particular private life seemed it would have ended any other career, but his legacy has survived previous disasters. As an example, at a certain point, Disney made Captain EO disappear from their parks but after a certain amount of time (and after his death) it was back in the parks for a second run (luckily for them, long over).

 

[haterobics]

Posted: 3/5/19 at 6:45pm

Dave28282 said: "And yet, I have never heard of him, and I do now."

Do you tend to follow who choreographs rock and pop concert tours? If so, there's really no way to have avoided knowing about Wade, given his especially close connections to N'Sync and Britney in their heydays.