Michael Jackson musical...new documentary — Page 3

Dave28282 said: "dragging someone through the mud that has been dead for 10 years really isn't the solution."

Personally, I hope all of my accusers (should they exist) wait until I'm dead to pipe up.

There is just no reason for this MJ musical to continue.

There must be enough royalties from other sources to keep the estate coffers overflowing.

This enterprise is bad publicity, but is it now too late to quietly withdraw?

The documentary is being screened on Australian Television this Friday/Saturday. There have already been two one hour shows including the local Sixty Minutes ....which exposed a lot of things that l can’t talk about here. I think it will definitely have some negative effect in regard to his respect and possibly box office sales.

The local shows interviewed other individuals who claim abuse. They also interviewed Jermaine Jackson.. who when questioned about the allegations replied three times “he was acquitted” got up and walked out. Janet Jackson was also interviewed and mention was made of the allegations. Her reply was “ he brought so much joy to people... why would you bring that up?” “I won’t talk about that”

Updated On: 3/5/19 at 09:13 PM

I'd be surprised to see this musical go forward at this point with all the controversy that has been stirred up.

As for the accusations themselves though, I wonder how many people will be moved enough by this documentary to change their tune on MJ. Anyone on here who thought he was innocent until seeing this documentary? Just curious.

As heinous as it seems by what these guys are saying, it's still a he said/he said situation. With one of those "he"s no longer here to further defend himself. No matter how graphic the details are.

It seems like this whole story has been exceedingly polarizing, with 1/2 the people believing the accusations, and the other half being quite skeptical.

For the record, I have not seen the documentary yet, but I know people who have. They have shared much of what is in it with me. I've also heard these two guys speak in other venues.

To be honest, those who have seen it and thought MJ was capable of this behavior are "convinced" now. Conversely, those who didn't think as such, are still skeptical. They keep going back to how adamantly these guys came in on behalf of MJ during the trial. The defense attorney had these guys at the crux of his defense because they were so believable in saying that nothing happened. And this was at a point when they were adults, and no longer kids.

Now would a kid caught up in the midst of this abuse be afraid to say anything if told not to? Of course, most would. But these guys were well into adulthood when they went into that courtroom and passionately defended MJ.

In fact, I myself have seen clips from back then when one of these guys is strutting out of the courthouse with a big smile on his face and a peace sign. He's a pretty darned good actor to be abused as long as he said he was and still be able to be so convincing, and seemingly un-traumatized. His affect and body language would have many believing what he told the court.

Now again, does that mean it didn't happen? No. But it's just an additional piece that makes people skeptical.

That being said, one does have to wonder. Because why would these guys come out, risking the livelihood of their own children who you know will be ridiculed by other children who are either fans of MJ, or have parents who are. And even more so, their parents have been thrown into a very troublesome light. I don't care how much they try to explain why they allowed their kids to take part in this relationship with MJ. And how "blinded" they were by MJ's mesmerizing ways. They are the adults in this situation, and any adult who would allow such a thing is a seriously questionable parent.

If this did happen, MJ was clearly the perpetrator, but it's the parents who have to live with themselves for the choices they made. I'd have a hard time looking my son in the eye knowing what happened. Based on what one poster on here said though, it appears the parents are taking part of the responsibility. And they should. No excuses.

This is why if there is any part of me that believes these guys, that would be it. Because they have not only risked the reputation of their parents, but they have also put their kids in some potentially difficult situations as well.

How many other victims have there been, I wonder. I've only heard of the original accuser whose parents had a reputation for going after people for money. Which is why the jury ruled in favor of MJ. And one of the reasons they ruled in MJ's favor was because of how adamant these two men, who are now in this documentary, were in saying MJ never did anything to them.

Other than these guys I haven't heard much from anyone else. And abusers of children such as this don't usually take vacations. There is usually a long line of victims left in their sordid path. How many have turned up in between, or since these stories?

Updated On: 3/5/19 at 11:03 PM

theatreguy12 said: "I'd be surprised to see this musical go forward at this point with all the controversy that has been stirred up.

As for the accusations themselves though, I wonder how many people will be moved enough by this documentary to change their tune on MJ. Anyone on here who thought he was innocent until seeing this documentary? Just curious.

As heinous as it seems by what these guys are saying, it's still a he said/he said situation. With one of those "he"s no longer here to further defend himself. No matter how graphic the details are.

It seems like this whole story has been exceedingly polarizing, with 1/2 the people believing the accusations, and the other half being quite skeptical.

For the record, I have not seen the documentary yet, but I know people who have. They have shared much of what is in it with me.I've also heard these two guys speak in other venues.

To be honest, those who have seen it and thought MJ was capable of this behavior are "convinced" now. Conversely, those who didn't think as such, are still skeptical. They keep going back to how adamantly these guys came in on behalf of MJ during the trial. The defense attorney had these guys at the crux of his defense because they were so believable in saying that nothing happened. And this was at a point when they were adults, and no longer kids.

Now would a kid caught up in the midst of this abusebe afraid to say anything if told not to? Of course, most would. But these guys were well into adulthoodwhen they went into that courtroom and passionatelydefended MJ.

In fact, I myself have seen clips from back then when one of these guys is strutting out of the courthouse with a big smile on his face and a peace sign. He's a pretty darned good actor to be abused as long as he said he was and still be able to be so convincing, and seemingly un-traumatized. His affect and body language would have many believing what he told the court.

Now again, does that mean it didn't happen? No. But it's just an additional piece that makes people skeptical.

That being said, one does have to wonder. Because why would these guys come out, risking the livelihood of their own children who you know will be ridiculed by other children who are either fans of MJ, or have parents who are. And even more so, their parents have been thrown into a very troublesome light. I don't care how much they try to explain why they allowed their kids to take part in this relationship with MJ. And how "blinded" they were by MJ's mesmerizing ways. They are the adults in this situation, and any adult who would allow such a thing is a seriously questionable parent.

If this did happen, MJ was clearly the perpetrator, but it's the parents who have to live with themselves for the choices they made. I'd have a hard time looking my son in the eye knowing what happened. Based on what one poster on here said though, it appears the parents are taking part of theresponsibility. And they should. No excuses.

This is why if there is any part of me that believes these guys, that would be it. Because they have not only risked the reputation of their parents, butthey have also put their kids in some potentially difficult situations as well.

How many other victims have there been, I wonder. I've only heard of the original accuser whose parents had a reputation for going after people for money. Which is why the jury ruled in favor of MJ. And one of the reasons they ruled in MJ's favor was because of how adamant these two men,who are now in this documentary, were in saying MJ never did anything to them.

Other than these guys I haven't heard much from anyone else. And abusers of children such as this don't usually take vacations. There is usually a long line of victims left in their sordid path. How many have turned up in between, or since these stories?"

In the time it took you to write all that you could’ve watched the whole 4 hour film and made up your own mind

Kad, I see your point, but the other examples you mention are still alive. This man has been dead for 10 years. There is nothing left to do for these men than accept the choices their parents made at the time, the mistakes that were made, the fact they were blinded by fame and money, the things Michael did or did not do. The most important thing is the conversation between them and their parents now.

These are very personal things. Making a movie seems like a peculiar choice. Especially when they have taken money before, admitted that they were blinded by fame and fortune before, and that the man has been dead for 10 years now. There is no use in making this into a business. Well, there could be, but that depends on their intentions.

Like Jonathan Harris said:

Dear people & the media,

We've learned our lesson with Jussie Smollett. NEVER again will we report accusations as fact without proof. Even if they're graphic & fit a popular narrative.

Updated On: 3/6/19 at 06:06 AM

Dave28282 said: "Like Jonathan Harris said:

Dear people & themedia,

We've learned our lesson with Jussie Smollett. NEVER again will we report accusations as fact without proof. Even if they're graphic & fit a popular narrative."

Please stop using the Jussie Smollett example as a rule when it is clearly an exception. Because one person lied publicly does not now mean that anyone who speaks out is lying.

For what it’s worth, people who make up accusations typically over indulge the details, creating a extraordinary situation in which the crime occurs, as Smollett did. The stories in Leaving Neverland are straight out of the pedophile playbook, with years of grooming, manipulation, and brainwashing. There’s nothing sensational about them.

TheQuibbler said: "Dave28282 said: "Like Jonathan Harris said:

Dear people & themedia,

We've learned our lesson with Jussie Smollett. NEVER again will we report accusations as fact without proof. Even if they're graphic & fit a popular narrative."

Please stop using the Jussie Smollett example as a rule when it is clearly anexception. Because one person lied publicly does not now mean that anyone who speaks out is lying.

For what it’s worth, people who make up accusations typically over indulge the details, creating a extraordinary situation in which the crime occurs, as Smollett did.The stories inLeaving Neverlandare straight out of the pedophile playbook, with years of grooming, manipulation, and brainwashing. There’s nothing sensational about them."

If you have been around for a while, you know that Dave19 (aka Dave28282) is resolute in his belief that racism, misogyny and sexual abuse do not exist - people make this stuff up. He will never believe otherwise.

The documentary is deeply upsetting. And there are enough details told by the parents alone that set off many red flags (what grown man argues for 2 hours with a mom to take custody of a 7 yr old thousands of miles away in Australia?). To dismiss the allegations at this point is willful.

Sadly, I have zero doubt tourists will still see it. Hell, look at KING KONG.

My main wonder if the Broadway community. You saw how they even circled around the performers of KONG, defending them from the nasty reviews. But this is a different matter.

BobbyBubbi said: "I’m still struggling to understand Wade Robson and Jimmy Safechuck’s parents and how they could be so blind toJackson’s behavior, but as they explained in the Oprah interview, it was apart of a “grooming” process."

When the adult men and their parents walked out of court grinning and laughing after the trial when Michael was cleared of charges, unaware they were on camera, was that part of the "grooming process" too?