Riedel on vultures circling ‘Great Comet’- Page 4

[HogansHero]

Posted: 8/4/17 at 12:06pm

as usual lots of wrong info here from folks who aren't bothered to know something before they say something. That said, in this case there are so many variables it is inconceivable anyone actually knows much of anything. For starters there is Riedel's general index of reliability which is at best 50%. We then have a recoupment percentage that we don't know what it refers to. (Likely, what Riedel means is the distribution percentage which bears no relation.) Finally, we have a putatively projected nut that we don't know where it comes from (offering papers? a work of fiction at this point) or what it includes. (If as I suspect, Groban's deal has him paid under the line then he may well have gotten $150k a week that would need to be added to the $700k as well as other under the line payments.) But I reiterate, I don't know, and neither does anyone else who doesn't pause because of their ignorance.

[bisous3]

Posted: 8/4/17 at 12:06pm

bdn223 said: " 


Also does anyone else find it weird that Oak isn't going continue his run through his original contract expiration? I think that speaks wonders to who is the adult in the room. The producers admitted that their execution of the plan wasn't the best, and apologized, and offered to have Oak back. Oak then says he is still definitively leaving on the 13th. If this were still the producers choice of departure date, I'd imagine Oak would have made it known. As far as we know it his choice to take the 3 week paid vacation, and give the middle finger to a troubled production, and the entire cast and crew. 

 

"

DING DING DING... we have a winner!

 

[mullein]

Posted: 8/4/17 at 12:10pm

bdn223 said: "Also does anyone else find it weird that Oak isn't going continue his run through his original contract expiration? I think that speaks wonders to who is the adult in the room. The producers admitted that their execution of the plan wasn't the best, and apologized, and offered to have Oak back. Oak then says he is still definitively leaving on the 13th. If this were still the producers choice of departure date, I'd imagine Oak would have made it known. As far as we know it his choice to take the 3 week paid vacation, and give the middle finger to a troubled production, and the entire cast and crew. 

 

"

There's no info whatsoever on whether Oak was  ever offered to finish his original run, and it's  certainly not a confirmed fact.

[bdn223]

Posted: 8/4/17 at 12:28pm

mullein said: "
"

There's no info whatsoever on whether Oak was  ever offered to finish his original run, and it's  certainly not a confirmed fact.

 

"

But if the producers still wanted him out...wouldn't Rafael Casal of tweeted about it by now? Considering he's the one who ignited this firestorm, wouldn't it make sense for him to continue to hound the producers for forcing Oak for a  out "white understudy".  Honestly the more we learn the worse its looking for Oak's career. 

 

[poisonivy2]

Posted: 8/4/17 at 12:35pm

Hmm, anyone think that the big elephant in the room is that Pierre simply isn't a meaty enough part to attract A-list actors and singers? I mean Josh Groban was obviously a big "win" for the producers but it's not a very long or showy role. The marketing for TGC made it seem bigger than it was, but the actual role involves a lot of sitting in a sort of pit onstage, but Natasha, Anatole, Sonya, etc. are all arguably bigger and meatier roles.

[HogansHero]

Posted: 8/4/17 at 12:37pm

I think Oak's employment chances with stupid producers have diminished severely, but does anyone seriously think Jeffrey Seller would hesitate to hire Oak again? or Scott Rudin? etc etc

Folks here have short memories. Maybe it wouldn't hurt to process what Riedel says against the backdrop of what Kagan said in his first comments in this debacle.

[ScottyDoesn'tKnow2]

Posted: 8/4/17 at 12:49pm

HogansHero said: "I think Oak's employment chances with stupid producers have diminished severely, but does anyone seriously think Jeffrey Seller would hesitate to hire Oak again? or Scott Rudin? etc etc

Folks here have short memories. Maybe it wouldn't hurt to process what Riedel says against the backdrop of what Kagan said in his first comments in this debacle."

I think a lot of it is people wanting his career to be over.

 

[raddersons]

Posted: 8/4/17 at 12:50pm

poisonivy2 said: "Hmm, anyone think that the big elephant in the room is that Pierre simply isn't a meaty enough part to attract A-list actors and singers? I mean Josh Groban was obviously a big "win" for the producers but it's not a very long or showy role. The marketing for TGC made it seem bigger than it was, but the actual role involves a lot of sitting in a sort of pit onstage, but Natasha, Anatole, Sonya, etc. are all arguably bigger and meatier roles."

I definitely thought that back in the tent, but with the revisions for broadway I think his connection to the core of the story is much clearer. And honestly, if you're an A-lister who gets a big paycheck just for sitting on stage would you be that mad?

[SonofRobbieJ]

Posted: 8/4/17 at 12:53pm

raddersons said: "poisonivy2 said: "Hmm, anyone think that the big elephant in the room is that Pierre simply isn't a meaty enough part to attract A-list actors and singers? I mean Josh Groban was obviously a big "win" for the producers but it's not a very long or showy role. The marketing for TGC made it seem bigger than it was, but the actual role involves a lot of sitting in a sort of pit onstage, but Natasha, Anatole, Sonya, etc. are all arguably bigger and meatier roles."

Yeah...actors pray for lead roles where you don't have to kill yourself to succeed and be the star.  If I were an A-lister looking to make a splash on Broadway, Pierre would be ideal.  

 

"

 

[JayElle]

Posted: 8/4/17 at 1:46pm

I've seen this show several times, twice from the stage which gives the patron the same view as the performer.  For all of this talk of race, the one thing that stood out glaringly for me was the absence of diversity in the audience.  

The cast may have been racially diverse, but the audience was not. I noted to my friend that I hadn't seen anything that white since the last snow storm.  Granted, tickets can be pricey, but this show had its abundance of discount ones.  Perhaps those yelling racism should be getting on the ticket line to support the cast.  I get Oak feeling screwed, but taking his toys and going home didn't help the casts' employment prospects in this show.  I'm sorry he didn't rise above all the negative nonsense.  Perhaps he just didn't feel it was a good fit for him anymore.

 

[Cape Twirl of Doom]

Posted: 8/4/17 at 1:51pm

evic said: "Ervin should have kept her Tony mouth shut along with everyone else who immediately chimed in with the race card bull****. They are partly responsible for the show's demise if they close. Oak seems like he needs to stop being a UN if the stories of his screaming at the director are true. 

Who is Ervin and do please spell out what you mean by UN.

 

[kdogg36]

Posted: 8/4/17 at 1:59pm

Since I haven't heard very many people mention it, let me throw this out there: I think Mandy Patinkin bears quite a bit of the blame for Great Comet's immediate financial troubles. He is not honoring an agreement he made with the producers because random strangers started a Twitter uprising without knowing anything at all about the situation or the show. I don't think that's an honorable reason to go back on his word.

[GreenGables]

Posted: 8/4/17 at 2:35pm

rosscoe(au) said: "So it was never the producers at fault.....Racism towards white people at its finest

 

"

I'm going to go ahead and ask you to apologize for that comment, and give "why there is no such thing as reverse racism" a quick google

[VintageSnarker]

Posted: 8/4/17 at 2:59pm

JayElle said: "I've seen this show several times, twice from the stage which gives the patron the same view as the performer.  For all of this talk of race, the one thing that stood out glaringly for me was the absence of diversity in the audience.  

The cast may have been racially diverse, but the audience was not. I noted to my friend that I hadn't seen anything that white since the last snow storm. 

JayElle, I know you see a lot of theater. What are you talking about? Unless it's a show like The Color Purple or Allegiance, the audience is never that diverse, and even then the majority of the audience is white. Been to an MTC show lately? I will say that while there isn't a lot of racial diversity, there is more age diversity compared to other shows primarily for adults (not Anastasia, Aladdin, etc.).

[Mister Matt]

Posted: 8/4/17 at 3:01pm

But if the producers still wanted him out...wouldn't Rafael Casal of tweeted about it by now?

"have", not "of"

But if the producers still wanted him out...wouldn't Rafael Casal have tweeted about it by now?

I think a lot of it is people wanting his career to be over.

I agree.  I never did like Riedel.

[ucjrdude902]

Posted: 8/4/17 at 3:04pm

I haven't been following this story closely...with that being said why is it not acceptable that white man replaced an African-American actor? 

 

 

[Nostamguy]

Posted: 8/4/17 at 3:08pm

As an investor, I have received 15% of my investment back, so the 20% number is generous. All other speculation that the show has recouped or even returned 50% are simply baseless. 

[GeorgeandDot]

Posted: 8/4/17 at 3:09pm

kdogg36 said: "Since I haven't heard very many people mention it, let me throw this out there: I think Mandy Patinkin bears quite a bit of the blame for Great Comet's immediate financial troubles. He is not honoring an agreement he made with the producers because random strangers started a Twitter uprising without knowing anything at all about the situation or the show. I don't think that's an honorable reason to go back on his word."

He had no choice.  There were people passing out stickers saying "Makeroomforoak" outside the theatre before the show started.  The entire sidewalk was covered in all kinds of bizarre and incorrect statements like "PoC are not to be used for publicity" written in chalk.  Patinkin would be forever known as the guy that "forced" the black guy out of Comet instead of for Evita and Sunday in the Park.  It would ruin his image.  He's 65 years old and I know him well and he's always been a sensitive soul.  I can see where this whole situation became to far too much for him.

[Dave28282]

Posted: 8/4/17 at 3:36pm

GeorgeandDot said: "He's 65 years old and I know him well and he's always been a sensitive soul.  I can see where this whole situation became to far too much for him."

Which is a pity, because his reaction wasn't based on the truth.

 

[schubox]

Posted: 8/4/17 at 3:43pm

GreenGables said: "rosscoe(au) said: "So it was never the producers at fault.....Racism towards white people at its finest

 

"

I'm going to go ahead and ask you to apologize for that comment, and give "why there is no such thing as reverse racism" a quick google

 

"

Where did they use the term reverse racism?

[Dave28282]

Posted: 8/4/17 at 3:45pm

bdn223 said: "Also does anyone else find it weird that Oak isn't going continue his run through his original contract expiration? I think that speaks wonders to who is the adult in the room. The producers admitted that their execution of the plan wasn't the best, and apologized, and offered to have Oak back. Oak then says he is still definitively leaving on the 13th. If this were still the producers choice of departure date, I'd imagine Oak would have made it known. As far as we know it his choice to take the 3 week paid vacation, and give the middle finger to a troubled production, and the entire cast and crew. "

Oak was in a situation where he had 2 choices: 1. Make a public statement saying that he is "fully accepting of the situation, that it's a routine fact of Broadway life and that he will do all the publicity with Patinkin and most of all, that this, of course, has nothing to do with race. And kindly ask the people to stop saying that". Or 2. Have private get-togethers in dressing rooms with Casal, ignoring the producers, and not make a statement at all and being completely influenced by race thinkers and basically screwing the show and his colleagues.

He chose the second option. Of course he can't continue his run. Then he would lose face to his racial influencers/"friends".

The producers should not apologize for anything.

Updated On: 8/4/17 at 03:45 PM

[bisous3]

Posted: 8/4/17 at 3:49pm

Dave28282 said: 
The producers should not apologize for anything.

 

"

I believe herein lies the problem. If they would have not been apologetic about a white man replacing an African American man who replaced a white man I think they'd all be a lot better off.  Ticket sales over ride everything, contrary to Ms. Erivo's Tweet. 

[HogansHero]

Posted: 8/4/17 at 3:53pm

OK kids, I hope you all had fun. Now a reality check.

Oak was the problem. He wasn't selling any tickets. The show was going to have to close when Ingrid left because of that, unless a savior (white or otherwise) came along. The savior didn't pan out. Why would Oak be brought back? How does his not coming back mean people will be unemployed if the show was gonna close if he had not been canned? 

Causation, people. Think for once in your lives.

[bisous3]

Posted: 8/4/17 at 4:01pm

He didn't need to be "brought back". He needed to agree to stay through the dates of his original contract, giving a new "big name" lead enough time to learn the role. Not only was there not enough time for a new person to prep for an August 13th departure, from what I understand the fact that the role now is the center of this controversy they are having great difficulty finding someone who will do it that is notable enough to sell tickets. I don't know that they can afford a couple of weeks of having an understudy do it while a "star" learns it either. 

[Dave28282]

Posted: 8/4/17 at 4:04pm

bisous3 said: "Dave28282 said: 
The producers should not apologize for anything.

 

"

I believe herein lies the problem. If they would have not been apologetic about a white man replacing an African American man who replaced a white man I think they'd all be a lot better off.  Ticket sales over ride everything, contrary to Ms. Erivo's Tweet. 

 

"

Which leads me to the following thought: If the producers are so sensitive and subservient that they even apologize for something that should not at all be apologized for, because all they did was treating him like any other broadway actor/human being. Basically, they apologized for not calling him out on his race in this situation. Which is absurd. Because if the producers in any way do feel they should treat him differently based on race, then I begin to wonder if it may have played a part in giving him the role in the first place.

Why are the producers and Patinkin so subordinate about false racism claims? Because they both handled in a way that was not based on truth.