Broadway Grosses: Week Ending 12/18/22- Page 3

[OhHiii]

Posted: 12/20/22 at 10:29pm

ManOfLaMuncha said: "There are a couple of things that are stopping many theater fans from taking a train into the city to see a show. One of course is inflation, everything is costing more and some people just can't afford it. The other thing is fear of the crime in NYC. It's pretty scary when you get out of a show and you're walking over to Times Square in a sea of people, then suddenly the crowd is thinning, thinning....gone. You can't find a cab, and you're cutting up a poorly lit side street to get over to Grand Central Station. I used to drive in or take the train down over the decades. There were times when 42nd Street and surrounding streets had adult peep shows, aggressive hookers and shady characters everywhere. Then the city got cleaned up and felt somewhat safer. I never see police patrolling. CBS, NBC and ABC are all out of NYC on my TV, and they always seem to be showing some horrific crime, and God help the people depending on the subway to get around. I think this may be having an impact on the out of towners, especially for evening performances."

There are literally cops everywhere in midtown. You’re falling prey to the narrative Eric Adams continues to push that’s not backed up by actual trends. Unfortunately, you’re a case study in what’s affecting suburbanites’ appetite to come in, so I completely agree with your point. 

 

 

[Jordan Catalano]

Posted: 12/20/22 at 10:30pm

You should write for the movies. You make midtown sound like a living hell. I just walked home to Hells Kitchen from the east side, through Times Square and the scariest thing i saw was Elmo without her head on.

[MemorableUserName]

Posted: 12/20/22 at 10:34pm

Yep. I've seen five evening shows this month. Never felt the slightest bit unsafe in the Theater District.

[LuPita2]

Posted: 12/20/22 at 10:35pm

ManOfLaMuncha said: The other thing is fear of the crime in NYC. It's pretty scary when you get out of a show and you're walking over to Times Square in a sea of people, then suddenly the crowd is thinning, thinning....gone. You can't find a cab, and you're cutting up a poorly lit side street to get over to Grand Central Station.

Wow. Literally none of that is true. Like, not one of those things are based in fact. Do you watch NewsMax and Tucker on the daily or something? 

[ManOfLaMuncha]

Posted: 12/20/22 at 10:36pm

Jordan Catalano said: "You should write for the movies. You make midtown sound like a living hell. I just walked home to Hells Kitchen from the east side, through Times Square and the scariest thing i saw was Elmo without her head on."

LOL, now that was funny!

[BorisTomashevsky]

Posted: 12/20/22 at 11:00pm

Maybe Times Square is basically fine, but in nearby areas there’s plenty of brazen, violent stuff happening in broad daylight - especially face slashings due to it being gang initiation season, and shootings in places like Chelsea near the homeless shelter there. Chelsea!!!

 
There’s an undercurrent of rage, desperation, anger at whatever small thing that sets someone off. Rents are rising but wages aren’t really following suit. Some people feel like they are being treated Iike garbage by life - and they lose respect for other humans in turn. Add to that the fact that 5pm looks like midnight at this time of year. 

If you’re currently blissfully ignorant of the crimes that are happening, more power to you. Do things happen in other places? Sure. Does that mean people should ignore the risks of NYC today? No. 

Download Citizen app and watch the red dots on the map (indication a violent crime) show up daily. 
 

This fear of (real or imagined) crime has to be a contributing factor to some peoples’ decision to skip the theatre. 

Updated On: 12/20/22 at 11:00 PM

[Alexander Lamar]

Posted: 12/20/22 at 11:23pm

Gang initiation is seasonal work?

[BorisTomashevsky]

Posted: 12/20/22 at 11:31pm

Alexander Lamar said: "Gang initiation is seasonal work?"

Certainly more at this time of year than in the flowery days of spring, say. 
It’s now extending beyond Halloween and through the darker months. 
https://thegrio.com/2011/10/31/how-gang-initiation-became-a-halloween-tradition/amp/

[dramamama611]

Posted: 12/20/22 at 11:33pm

Nothing says Happy Holidays more!

 

After hearing people here talking about crime in the city, I was worried about my last visit in November. As Jordan said, never felt unsafe or witness to anything.

[jkcohen626]

Posted: 12/20/22 at 11:35pm

BorisTomashevsky said: "Maybe Times Square is basically fine, but in nearby areas there’s plenty of brazen, violent stuff happening in broad daylight - especially face slashings due to it being gang initiation season, and shootings in places like Chelsea near the homeless shelter there. Chelsea!!!


There’s an undercurrent of rage, desperation, anger at whatever small thing that sets someone off. Rents are rising but wages aren’t really following suit. Some people feel like they are being treated Iike garbage by life - and they lose respect for other humans in turn. Add to that the fact that 5pm looks like midnight at this time of year.

If you’re currently blissfully ignorant of the crimes that are happening, more power to you. Do things happen in other places? Sure. Does that mean people should ignore the risks of NYC today? No.

Download Citizen app and watch the red dots on the map (indication a violent crime) show up daily.


This fear of (real or imagined) crime has to be a contributing factor to some peoples’ decision to skip the theatre."

I think most of this is probably BS or is way less common than you are making it out to be (or legitimately think it to be).

But, one thing is true: if you download that goddamned Citizen app and are suddenly getting notifications for EVERY SINGLE crime or mishap that happens in the entire city, you will probably think it's a lot less safe than it actually is and that can be enough to deter you from engaging with things in the city. 

[Alexander Lamar]

Posted: 12/20/22 at 11:38pm

BorisTomashevsky said: "Alexander Lamar said: "Gang initiation is seasonal work?"

Certainly more at this time of year than in the flowery days of spring, say.
It’s now extending beyond Halloween and through the darker months.
https://thegrio.com/2011/10/31/how-gang-initiation-became-a-halloween-tradition/amp/"

You do realize that you’ve linked to an 11 year old blog post full of anecdotes about possible gang violence on Halloween but ultimately states that even in NYC, there was no spike in crime related to this fear mongering?

 

From the blog post:

”Whether based on actual incidents or the product of rumors and hoaxes, stories of Halloween gang initiations are not going away. Snopes.com suggests that concerns over gang initiations take hold particularly in hard economic times, during a time of widespread anxiety and fears about the political future of the country. ”

Now that sounds familiar. 

[BorisTomashevsky]

Posted: 12/20/22 at 11:38pm

Does every person in the city have to witness a crime to be able to acknowledge that there’s a crime problem? Who knows what was going down two blocks over from where you were. Most people don’t feel unsafe until they’re suddenly in a situation they wish they could get out of. 

Updated On: 12/20/22 at 11:38 PM

[Jordan Catalano]

Posted: 12/20/22 at 11:41pm

No but those of us who live here ARE in fact aware of what goes on in the city. Like, we actually know people who live in different parts of the city who would be vocal about living in the Escape-From-NY hellscape you think we’re in. 

[Ke3]

Posted: 12/20/22 at 11:49pm

I don't live in NYC but it's honestly a bit insane to see people run with the "crime around every corner" thing which is completely disproven by the data

[BCfitasafiddle]

Posted: 12/20/22 at 11:52pm

I know we say this every week, but what a win for Lea Michele. She should be feeling pretty darn good. That number is amazing.

[Phantom4ever]

Posted: 12/20/22 at 11:58pm

Auggie27 said: "Thanksgiving to Christmas has historically been slower, certainly for struggling shows. Before the holiday week surge. But the slight bump for Hot is likely due to the infusion of $60 “rush” seats and three houses full of TDF seats (I was in one). The show is shockingly undersold this week - tonight and tomorrow afternoon almost nothing sold upstairs - and almost as bad for the big holiday week when most shows typically pick up full price sales. January looks bleak. By any yardstick."

Auggie, you seem to be one of the few who gets the fact that Thanksgiving to New Year's is not this nonstop insane glut of tourists. There are definitely slow weeks in December, and this will likely be the worst of them. It's really only next week and the week after where sales are up quite a bit. 

I have been to New York several times recently and I keep up with the crime stats so I know, as many of you are saying, that it is not this 1980's pit of despair and crime as Fox News etc. desperately want us to believe. HOWEVER, that is DEFINITELY the vibe out there. Whenever I tell anyone (liberal, conservative etc) that I'm going to New York, they act like I need to pack a bullet proof vest. Whenever New York travel adverts pop up on my social media almost all of the comments are about how the crime is so awful and widespread that nobody would dare risk their life to visit New York. The Gossip Girl/Sex and the City imagery of a wealthy, safe, glamorous Manhattan that New York successfully peddled to the world is no longer around. 

 

[HogansHero]

Posted: 12/21/22 at 12:01am

So much silliness in this thread. Is there crime? yes. Are there gang initiations? Yes. Do these have a much to do with the tourist parts of Manhattan? No. Wanna guess what the FBI says are the 10 most dangerous cities in NY State are? Wanna guess what city is NOT on that list? Hint: NYC. Wanna know where to go to expose yourself to the highest risk of gang violence in NY State? I'll tell you: Newburgh. 

Yes there are people who cannot afford to travel right now, and yes there are people afraid to. But if you walk around midtown Manhattan you are struck by (a) how there are so many tourists and (b) how much money they are spending. If they are not going to Broadway shows, I think we need to ask ourselves why that might be. How are we selling KA and SLIH to them? Or more acutely, are we? It's the same questions we have been talking about with regard to ANM. Even among the very good shows, we are doing an antiquated and lame job of promoting them. It's pathetic actually.

[newyorker1410]

Posted: 12/21/22 at 8:42am

I've lived in NYC all my life.  I'm older, I ride the subways and walk the streets every day.  NYC is as safer now than it's ever been.

The big difference today is that there are cameras everywhere which capture almost every crime.  This is of course one of the deterrents that has made the city safer, but it also makes for great television, and feeds the political agenda of the NY Post, Fox News, etc.  Statistically, you are safer on the subway in the city than in your car in the suburbs. 

Also NYC is still a blast.  The streets are filled, the stores, restaurants and clubs are bustling.  It's still the greatest city in the world!

 

[Auggie27]

Posted: 12/21/22 at 9:04am

I have lived in Manhattan or NYC-adjacent since September 1979 (I saw the first preview of Evita! and went to Ted Hooks' afterwards!). I've seen NYC's resilient profile weather national bombast and local exploitation by politicians. It's a complicated place, hugging rivers, other states, and a mecca. For just about everything. It's glorious, it's a helluva town. I've never been intimidated, and saw 19 shows last challenging season, 5 this so far, walk everywhere, and was on four subways only last night, December 20th. These generic denigrations of the "crime problem" are invariably tethered to media-fueled anxiety and woe, but I don't know anyone -- in my boomer demographic or younger -- terrified of theatergoing. 

[PipingHotPiccolo]

Posted: 12/21/22 at 9:27am

newyorker1410 said: "I've lived in NYC all my life. I'm older, I ride the subways and walk the streets every day. NYC is as safer now than it's ever been.


"

The people/media hyping NYC Crime are horrible, craven liars. And good ones, because NY is what swung Congress to the Republicans. Its overblown nonsense to suggest millions of us are living in some dystopian crimeridden nightmare. We arent. 

AND YET i find it pretty frustrating to hear people say things like "NYC is safer now than its ever been." The data does not bear that out, unless we cherry pick WHICH crimes we are focusing on. Crime is up-- not in NYC specifically, but across the country. And since there are millions more ppl here than anywhere else, that means theres more crime happening here to be filmed, reported, witnessed.

The absolute WORST thing New Yorkers can do is pretend there ISNT an increase--- in violent incidents, yes, but also in just homelessness and unstable people not getting the care they need. Saying "it isnt as bad as the media says!" is one thing, and I would shout that from the rooftops. But pretending "nothing to see here, that violent stabbing down the block is par for the course" is not only disingenuous, but counterproductive. 

[inception]

Posted: 12/21/22 at 9:31am

Jordan Catalano said: "

 the Escape-From-NY hellscape 

I hate to say it* but that would make for a pretty cool theme park that might attract tourists who might not otherwise wish to visit.

 

 

 

*well obviously I don't "hate to say it," :p

 

[BJR]

Posted: 12/21/22 at 9:51am

HogansHero said: "So much silliness in this thread. Is there crime? yes. Are there gang initiations? Yes. Do these have a much to do with the tourist parts of Manhattan? No. Wanna guess what the FBI says are the 10 most dangerous cities in NY State are? Wanna guess what city is NOT on that list? Hint: NYC. Wanna know where to go to expose yourself to the highest risk of gang violence in NY State? I'll tell you: Newburgh.

Yes there are people who cannot afford to travel right now, and yes there are people afraid to. But if you walk around midtown Manhattan you are struck by (a) how there are so many tourists and (b) how much money they are spending. If they are not going to Broadway shows, I think we need to ask ourselves why that might be. How are we selling KA and SLIH to them? Or more acutely, are we? It's the same questions we have been talking about with regard to ANM. Even among the very good shows, we are doing an antiquated and lame job of promoting them. It's pathetic actually."

This is right. Tourists are back. And they seeing Leah Michele.

 

[poisonivy2]

Posted: 12/21/22 at 10:20am

So me: a short Asian lady. I take the trains to one of the worst sections of the Bronx every day for work -- teach at a school. The school is near a methadone clinic, so every day there's fentanyl addicts waiting to buy methadone from the clinic patients. I see people overdosing on the sidewalks all the time. I take the train from school to the theater district all the time.

I feel way, way safer among the crowds of the theater district than that commute to work. So I have to laugh at the people afraid of the theater district. Y'all don't even know how privileged and frankly bigoted you sound.

[BorisTomashevsky]

Posted: 12/21/22 at 10:33am

poisonivy2 said: "So I have to laugh at the people afraid of the theater district. Y'all don't even know how privileged and frankly bigoted you sound."

You’re laughing at others’ genuinely-held fear and saying they sound privileged and bigoted? For wanting to take steps to avoid possible physical harm? Hope you’re kinder than this to the kids at your school. There’s enough meanness around so please don’t foment more in the next generation
 

8th Avenue is a mess. Last night was like Mario Kart with the number of things to be sidestepped. I don’t blame anyone who wants to skip the theatre altogether rather than have to deal with it. 

[OhHiii]

Posted: 12/21/22 at 10:44am

BorisTomashevsky said: "poisonivy2 said: "So I have to laugh at the people afraid of the theater district. Y'all don't even know how privileged and frankly bigoted you sound."

You’re laughing at others’ genuinely-held fear and saying they sound privileged and bigoted? For wanting to take steps to avoid possible physical harm? Hope you’re kinder than this to the kids at your school. There’s enough meanness around so please don’t foment more in the next generation


8th Avenue is a mess. Last night was like Mario Kart with the number of things to be sidestepped. I don’t blame anyone who wants to skip the theatre altogether rather than have to deal with it."

Take the L, buddy. You do not live in NYC, yet you're arguing with people who spend every hour of every day in the city you insist is a hellscape. "Genuinely held fear" based on faulty data, right wing talking points and hyperbole.