Emilia Pérez vs. Wicked

[MerrilyWePostAlong]

Posted: 1/27/25 at 5:29pm

Has anyone else been left puzzled by the acclaim and awards this movie has received? While I acknowledge there were some commendable performances, to me, it pales in comparison to Wicked in terms of book/screenplay, and score.

I'm also concerned about the representation of Emilia Pérez as a transgender woman. The film seems to focus heavily on her gender identity, portraying her in a negative light—as violent, deceptive, and a societal threat. It leans into numerous damaging stereotypes, which feels like a step backward in troubling times.

Did everyone else enjoy this and I'm missing something? (That seems to be my perception.)

I'm interested in getting different perspectives!

[EDSOSLO858]

Posted: 1/27/25 at 5:41pm

The more I think about it, the more I sincerely enjoyed EMILIA PÉREZ. That final half hour in particular, I thought was really, really good. Lots of action and suspense.

It might not 100% work as a musical, but it succeeds in spades as a thriller.

Updated On: 1/27/25 at 05:41 PM

[Jordan Catalano]

Posted: 1/27/25 at 5:44pm

Whereas i have the exact opposite reaction. The more i think about EP, the more I absolutely hate it.  

[TotallyEffed]

Posted: 1/27/25 at 5:47pm

Anora blew them both out of the water, as far as filmmaking is concerned.

Updated On: 1/27/25 at 05:47 PM

[Matt Rogers]

Posted: 1/27/25 at 5:57pm

MerrilyWePostAlong said: "Has anyone else been left puzzled by the acclaim and awards this movie has received? While I acknowledge there were some commendable performances, to me, it pales in comparison to Wicked in terms of book/screenplay, and score.

I'm also concerned about the representation of Emilia Pérez as a transgender woman. The film seems to focus heavily on her gender identity, portraying her in a negative light—as violent, deceptive, and a societal threat. It leans into numerous damaging stereotypes, which feels like a step backward in troubling times.

Did everyone elseenjoy this and I'm missing something? (That seems to be my perception.)

I'm interested in getting different perspectives!"

I thought it was fantastic but a lot of people agree with you:

https://www.today.com/today/amp/rcna189121

[BJR]

Posted: 1/27/25 at 5:59pm

Most people I know did not like Emilia. I happened to really enjoy it, though I see the reasons why people think it's a step back in representation.

I think the performances are stellar and the film instead pretty bold. My biggest critique is I would've like the score to be more melodic.

[Sutton Ross]

Posted: 1/27/25 at 5:59pm

Emilia Pérez is a polarizing French-directed, Spanish-language musical about a trans Mexican gangster. It's pure Oscar bait and it will absolutely win it all.

Nickel Boys trumps both in every way conceivable. 

Wicked was cute tho. 

[Jarethan]

Posted: 1/27/25 at 6:02pm

I really liked EM, but I honestly do not think of it as a musical, regardless of what anyone else thinks.  Most of the songs to me were like background chants rather than classic movie musical songs.  I did not actually think that musicalization added much to it, even though I really did like it. 

I thought the story was intriguing, extremely well-acted, and I thought the ending was great. Drug lord reinvents themself, does honorable things in search of redemption (or is it just that they see things differently as a woman), starts on a downward path because they still need to be in charge, and ends of dying because of stupid / selfish actions driven by the need to be in complete control.  Still, she ends up being viewed as a heroine by the people.

One thing that I could not buy, but didn't let it bother me, was centered on the fact that EP came out of nowhere, even though she was wealthy, became a well known public figure because of her actions, but no reporter attempted a background story to try to figure out who EP is.  

I still enjoyed it just as much the second time as the first.

Wicked is just a different beast, even though it does actually have some very serious points to make.  I am not sure how many viewers necessarily spent any time thinking about those points, of course. 

Comparing them based on their being musicals is, to me, pointless.  

[Someone in a Tree2]

Posted: 1/27/25 at 7:46pm

Sigh-- It's so painful waiting and waiting for the world to cheer the return of the moribund movie musical artform, and then to find the movers and shakers heralding EMILIA PEREZ, one of the most AMATEUR examples of the genre ever mounted! Lame songs, lousy staging, nonsensical story line (how to suspend belief enough to accept Selena Gomez can't recognize her ex-husband when it counts???)-- I just shook my head in sadness at the sorry pass movie musicals had reached by November 2024 ..... until .... until the triumphant opening of WICKED just 2 weeks later, that singlehandedly restored my faith in the power of a great movie musical to weave that magical spell that only musicals can achieve. All credit to Jon M Chu and his team-- thank God someone in 2024 can still bring a brilliant show to movie life!

[verywellthensigh]

Posted: 1/27/25 at 8:17pm

From Percival Everett's calculated, amateurish bestseller James to the attractive trauma porn of The Brutalist to the downright embarrassing Emilia Perez, I am amazed at what culture people will stomach to have their own pet causes affirmed.  

I have yet to see Wicked.  

[MerrilyWePostAlong]

Posted: 1/28/25 at 12:57am

Someone in a Tree2 said: "Sigh-- It's so painful waiting and waiting for the world to cheer the return of themoribund movie musical artform, and then to find the movers and shakers heralding EMILIA PEREZ, one of the most AMATEUR examples of the genre ever mounted! Lame songs, lousy staging, nonsensical story line (how to suspend belief enough to accept Selena Gomez can't recognize her ex-husband when it counts???)-- I just shook my head in sadness at the sorry pass movie musicals hadreached by November 2024 ..... until .... until the triumphant opening of WICKED just 2 weeks later, that singlehandedly restored my faith in the power of a great movie musical to weave that magical spell that only musicals can achieve. All credit to Jon M Chu and his team-- thank God someone in 2024 can still bring a brilliant show to movie life!"

Omg, yes. This was just the tip of the iceberg. Nobody noticed her two year transition before she disappeared? The long-suffering wife not able to recognizer her living under the same roof. The complete personality shift after the fact? (Frankly, Wicked might as well be a documentary relative to the believability of anything in this movie.) The titular character was completely unlikeable and irredeemable from the start. It only got worse from there.

And don't get me started on the lawyer character. In what world are we supposed to cheer for her?

I think I can only recall one song from the entire movie (you probably know the one) and not because it was good.

Frankly, relative to this, Wicked is in a totally different league. It's like Spider-man vs. Into the Woods in terms of a quality difference.

TotallyEffed, I have not seen Anora but looks interesting. Will add it to the list.

[binau]

Posted: 1/28/25 at 2:53am

I was intrigued about EP, and then I heard some of the songs!! Idk it seems like a TikTok parody or something. 

We were truly blessed with the Wicked film, score and performances. 

[blaxx]

Posted: 1/28/25 at 7:56am

It never helped Wicked's case to be in two parts when it comes to recognition.

Every creative involved has two shots at the awards season, which means they will wait to see the whole thing first and before giving it much.

[KJisgroovy]

Posted: 1/28/25 at 8:45am

"From Percival Everett's calculated, amateurish bestseller James"

Wut. 

A1. Not a best seller. 

B2. What "pet cause" is James about? Black Americans are people? Black folks should be able to read and write? 

C3. James is an extraordinary book by an author who has been writing extraordinary books for years and years.

[KevinKlawitter]

Posted: 1/28/25 at 9:31am

Sutton Ross said: "Emilia Pérez is apolarizing French-directed, Spanish-language musical about a trans Mexican gangster. It's pure Oscar bait and it will absolutely win it all.
 

Oh yes, AMPAS has historically fallen all over themselves to reward French-produced, Spanish language queer musical cartel dramedies!

Just look at all of the movies like this they've rewarded in the past! like.... uh...

umm....

...it'll come to me!

[Mr. Wormwood]

Posted: 1/28/25 at 9:49am

I had my qualms with Wicked but it's far superior to Emilia Pérez. EP barely works as a movie and definitely does not work as a movie musical. I haven't seen all the Best Picture nominees yet but, of the ones I have, Emelia Pérez is easily my least favorite.

[yyys]

Posted: 1/28/25 at 9:50am

EP getting an Oscar nomination for BEST ORIGINAL SCORE is laughable. 

[heybaby]

Posted: 1/28/25 at 10:10am

I'd say WICKED getting nominated for Original Score is infinitely more laughable. 

[Sutton Ross]

Posted: 1/28/25 at 11:32am

^ Wicked getting nominated for Best Score is the most hilarious sh*t Ive heard in awhile.

"From Percival Everett's calculated, amateurish bestseller James"

Are you being serious? Calculated and amateurish? It was a NYT Best Seller, won a National Book Award for Fiction and was on everyone's top ten list last year. Yeah, those stories about black people written by a black author are super calculated. I guess that's why Steven Spielberg and Taika Waititi are making the film version because it's super amateurish and totally calculated. Lolz. 

"James is the rarest of exceptions. It should come bundled with Twain's novel". 

 

Updated On: 1/28/25 at 11:32 AM

[Jonathan Cohen]

Posted: 1/28/25 at 11:42am

Without really considering Emilia Pérez through the lens of trans or Mexican representation, my first reaction after seeing the film was, well that totally doesn't work at a story level. It felt like they were trying to make a totally different movie after every 30 minutes, and what's motivating Emilia in one section is often at odds with a previous section.   

Zoe Saldana genuinely gave a good performance in Emilia Pérez, but other than that I thought the movie was an interesting failure. It became more irritating in the context of getting a better understanding of the weird tropes it was using and what I saw as a bad movie racking up huge amounts of award nominations. 

With Wicked, I have criticisms of the film, but I generally thought it worked. Ariana Grande is the only part of the film I thought rose to the level of being award worthy however. Kristin Chenoweth has talked about how Wicked is Elphaba's story, and it is but Glinda is the character I think changes the most and is the more interesting part.

Because it's so much easier for Glinda to be accepted into the ruling class in Oz, and to keep what's other about her hidden, she has more options than Elphaba and makes more mistakes. She also seems the more tragic character, which given how the Wizard of Oz ends is kind of strange. 

In terms of the actually best movies of 2024, I though it was Anora, Sing Sing, and The Brutalist in that order.        

[Someone in a Tree2]

Posted: 1/28/25 at 2:03pm

Of the nominated films, our favorite is ANORA, with A COMPLETE UNKNOWN a close second. (And this year I was inducted into the Academy so my tiny vote actually counts!)

We also loved the polarizing (and awards-overlooked) QUEER, and the completely brilliant Latvian animated film FLOW. 

If THE BRUTALIST had ended around the intermission, it would have been one of our very top films, but alas, the god-awful second half discounted all the good will engendered by Act 1. I really hope the battle for best picture between The Brutalist and the lousy Emilia Pérez will result in Anora taking home the prize.

 

[verywellthensigh]

Posted: 1/28/25 at 2:30pm

KJisgroovy said: ""From Percival Everett's calculated, amateurish bestseller James"

Wut.

A1. Not a best seller.

B2. What "pet cause" is James about? Black Americans are people? Black folks should be able to read and write?

C3. James is an extraordinary book by an author who has been writing extraordinary books for years and years."

A1:  It's been on the New York Times bestseller list for 13 weeks now.

A2:  The smug pet cause of "correcting the canon". 

A3:  I haven't read Everett's other books, but this one is written at about a 6th grade level. 

Of course Spielberg wants to do the movie.  The book is fundamentally reactionary.  

Updated On: 1/28/25 at 02:30 PM

[KJisgroovy]

Posted: 1/28/25 at 3:26pm

A1: You're right! I'm sorry about that. I'm completely wrong. I had assumed that because you don't see it in the places you normally see best sellers... but that was stupid of me.

A2: That wasn't Everett's pet cause. He has talked extensively about not wanting to replace Twain. He has said he does not see his book as a "corrective" 

A3: What do you mean "six grade level"? It's lexile level is higher than that. Huckleberry Finn is written at a ninth grade level. Is that bad? Jane Eyre and Wuthering Heights are written at a 7th grade level... so... throw 'em out, I guess. Also, if this is your first encounter with Percival Everett I would sort of question your engagement with modern fiction. 

"fundamentally reactionary." I feel like you don't know what reactionary means.

 

[verywellthensigh]

Posted: 1/28/25 at 4:38pm

Jane Eyre and Wuthering Heights are written at a 7th grade level?  Now you're just making things up to prove a point.

But I'm glad that good white liberals get to affirm to themselves that Black people are real people who should read and write.  

[SisterGeorge]

Posted: 1/28/25 at 7:42pm

People, I happened to like Emilia Perez quite a bit, and it's disappointing to hear that some people don't like it because it's not built like a 'traditional' musical, but there is no way that it's going to win Best Picture. Best International Feature Film, yes, very likely, but not Best Picture. Anora, sadly, peaked too early. Now The Brutalist, whether it deserves it or not, has Oscar bait written all over it and I'm guessing it will triumph over the rest.  

But if there were an award for Best Oscar Campaign that would surely go to Timothée's reps. That SNL appearance and all the subsequent press it has produced just as people are voting may have just pushed him ahead of Adrien Brody, the most traditional Best Actor performance of the bunch.