GYPSY Previews- Page 14

[BrodyFosse123]

Posted: 11/24/24 at 3:48pm

I don’t think it’s just because everyone wants “a white woman belting” and can’t imagine a black woman as Rose. I thought of Tonya Pinkins multiple times during my performance - and in 15/20 years Cynthia would be thrilling! It’s more nuanced than that.

Geez, Louise. This ain’t the first time this multi-racial concept has been done. Leslie Uggams did this 10 years ago.

 

[pagereynolds]

Posted: 11/24/24 at 3:49pm

BrodyFosse123 said: "I don’t think it’s just because everyone wants “a white woman belting” and can’t imagine a black woman as Rose. I thought of Tonya Pinkins multiple times during my performance - and in 15/20 years Cynthia would be thrilling! It’s more nuanced than that.

Geez, Louise. This ain’t the first time this multi-racial concept has been done. Leslie Uggams did this 10 years ago.

Hmm, was that on Broadway with a a very race conscious direction?

"

 

[Skip23]

Posted: 11/24/24 at 5:42pm

 

Funny that you mention Leslie Uggams.  I thought Audra sounded like Leslie last night.

 

 

[TheOnlyOne2]

Posted: 11/24/24 at 5:57pm

Sally Durant Plummer said: "TheOnlyOne, I don’t disagree with the content of what you’re saying, but it does seem like you’re responding to criticism that isn’t there…

Saying “I didn’t get misogynoir from xy scene” isn’t the same thing as saying “that scene does not & cannot facilitate a conversation on misogynoir.” And while I appreciate hearing other perspectives on how some DO see a conversation about misogynoir in that scene, it shouldn’t be treated as gospel that it’s 100% clear in the production. The fact that one had to describe & explain how & why that scene was a critique on misogynoir kind of goes to show that it’s not self-evident in the scene as of now. But it’s early previews! Things are still being worked out and that sequence in particular has been called out for being very messy."

 

I hear what you're saying, but the original response said there was no room for it in the conversation. Please don't misconstrue what I said as if I didn't respond to criticism. 

 

To be honest, saying a scene can't facilitate misogynoir is an excuse to downplay something happening right in front of our eyes. It doesnt matter how big or how small, how obvious or not it is to people. I hope they lean into these issues, and that people would educate themselves before they come into the space. The fact that so many people up voted someone who tried to tone polic  a black women talking about black woman **** is a clear representation of all the things I've written. What they should be doing is listening. We don't have to agree but we'll be side eyeing as usual. 

 

 

[JasonC3]

Posted: 11/24/24 at 7:19pm

Fascinating how some here think they get to control the terms of how others get to contribute to the conversation, but they themselves are not allowed to be questioned at all.

[OharaFosseWolfe888]

Posted: 11/24/24 at 7:26pm

JasonC3 said: "Fascinating how some here think they get to control the terms of how others get to contribute to the conversation, but they themselves are not allowed to be questioned at all."

I guess contextually that depends on what they are questioned about. In reference to TheOnlyOne2's previous post, I don't think any of us who aren't a Black woman get to question how they interpret this material and production as presented. To me that seems the whole point, and as she said I too would "...hope they lean into these issues, and that people would educate themselves before they come into the space."

Updated On: 11/24/24 at 07:26 PM

[PipingHotPiccolo]

Posted: 11/24/24 at 7:52pm

 "I don't think any of us who aren't a Black woman get to question how they interpret this material and production as presented."

if I am understanding this correctly, it is completely insane. I must be mistaken, because it seems like you're saying only Black women can question this production's interpretation, and surely no one can be that off-the-reservation delusional (particularly in a setting of anonymous posting where no one's race or gender is readily apparent)? When will this "Only X Can Talk About Y, Those Are The Rules We Made Up" fever break? 

If that IS what you are saying, sorry, you're in the wrong space, go elsewhere with this nonsense, and let us (of all colors, genders) continue doing whatever we damn well please while you scream at the sky in vain.

Updated On: 11/24/24 at 07:52 PM

[BWAY Baby2]

Posted: 11/24/24 at 7:59pm

 "I don't think any of us who aren't a Black woman get to question how they interpret this material and production as presented."
You sound like someone I would not like to know.

Updated On: 11/24/24 at 07:59 PM

[BewareTheUndertoad]

Posted: 11/24/24 at 10:15pm

TheOnlyOne2 said: "
Umm bffr.I'm not sure what possessed you to say that I was reaching by bringing up misogynoir. Unless you're a black woman, I don't want to hear you saying when you think misogynoir discussion is appropriate. We're talking about awhite passing woman's experiences compared to woman that hasdarker skin. Saying there's no space for it in a production about two black women who experience life differently based on proximity to whiteness is absurd.If you followed what I said, I point out the stark difference of the way in which June can achieve success as opposed to Louise. June's phenotypical traits allows her the privilege of being viewed as harmless and chaste. She doesn't have the same expectation to lead with her sexuality. The further away from whiteness you are in our society, the more you're expected to sexualize yourself. In this production, watching Louise be discarded, and only given the chance to find success through men leering at her while she strips should be extremely upsetting. Her rolling around, and being overtly sexual in the Garden of Eden, is exactly the representation of misogynoir. She's the snake that represents sin and seduction. That's what they expect us to be.

I wasn't saying you were reaching, it's fully there in the subtext and a black burlesque entertainer of the time would absolutely be dealing with it, what I meant is that in the actual material of the musical I don't see the opportunity for the topic to be breached. I really wish that the Garden of Eden sequence landed in the way you discuss it but unfortunately it just doesn't.

[justherehanging]

Posted: 11/25/24 at 7:30am

Gypsy was a mixed experience for me. I desperately wanted to love it, especially given the show’s legendary status, but something felt off. It had all the right elements—great songs, strong performances—but it didn’t quite hit the emotional mark I was hoping for. I can’t pinpoint exactly what was missing, but I left the theater feeling like there was something more that should have connected. It wasn’t a bad show, but I wasn’t fully moved by it either.

[CurtainsUpat8]

Posted: 11/25/24 at 8:29am

I am a playwright with published works.  "Gypsy" was written about the experiences of a white woman in a certain situation in a specific time and place.  That experience would be different if the character was Black in the same situation and time and place. It would be written differently. You can't shoehorn the two experiences together. It doesn't do anyone any good.
Write a new Gypsy from a Black characters experience.  So many of you are just reactive to anything racial and you are so sure that any show can be done by anyone. Yes, it can.. but it's not always going to work...
Write more shows for black people, that truly show the black experience. Gyspy ain't that. Neither are a lot of other shows that are being produced today. You pick a 75 year old show about white people and you wonder why things don't seem right with this new production. Something is off.

[RippedMan]

Posted: 11/25/24 at 8:35am

Honestly, Pinkins - 10 years ago? maybe now? - would be thrilling. I just think McDonald is too regal. It's like Donna Murphy as Rose. I just don't think it quite connects? But I haven't seen it. Also, the sets are always going to look cheap for Gypsy. It's not that kind of show. It's about poor people trying to make it and being in poor settings. The production should not be that glamorous. 

[ErmengardeStopSniveling]

Posted: 11/25/24 at 8:52am

RippedMan said: "Also, the sets are always going to look cheap for Gypsy. It's not that kind of show. It's about poor people trying to make it and being in poor settings. The production should not be that glamorous."

THIS! It’s supposed to look crummy and the characters aren’t wealthy so their costumes are not going to be opulent.

I’ve always wanted to see GYPSY staged on a big turntable revolve, which would allow for some really interesting, different angles for the backstage scenes. (You can see it from the front, back, or side depending on placement)

[ErmengardeStopSniveling]

Posted: 11/25/24 at 8:55am

I would really like to see Erivo as Rose (and she’s almost 40 so that could happen at any time in the next 25 years). Or Da’vine Joy Randolph.

[Jordan Catalano]

Posted: 11/25/24 at 9:01am

I’ve said for a long time now that I’d kill to see Tonya Pinkins as Rose and I still would. The intensity she’d bring to the role would be like nothing we’ve ever seen before. 

[OhHiii]

Posted: 11/25/24 at 9:24am

RippedMan said: "Also, the sets are always going to look cheap for Gypsy. It's not that kind of show. It's about poor people trying to make it and being in poor settings. The production should not be that glamorous."

Lol no. Just because the characters are poor does not mean the production design has to be ugly and incoherent. The issue is the pieces aren’t designed to speak in unison. And as I’ve said, I found even the wealthier settings like the producer’s office, Chinese restaurant and Louise’s apartment to be so out of place, they felt of a different show. The socioeconomic status of the characters have zero to do with putting a cohesive design on stage. And many-a musical has poor characters with sets people did not call ugly. What a silly thing to say.

[BWAY Baby2]

Posted: 11/25/24 at 10:10am

The goal of the color blind casting- so prominent now in all sectors of show business- is to cast someone in a role who can act the role- regardless of their racial identity. Audra is not playing a BLACK woman- she is acting and singing a role as it is written- it is not a story about race and discrimination during the Burlesque era- so why would you expect it to be just because Audra was cast. Race is not broached in Gypsy- and in many shows- but many other subjects are explored. It is pointless to view every show through the lens of race just because a POC is playing that role.

[Bwaygurl2]

Posted: 11/25/24 at 10:15am

BWAY Baby2 said: "The goal of the color blind casting- so prominent now in all sectors of show business- is to cast someone in a role who can act the role- regardless of their racial identity. Audra is not playing a BLACK woman- she is acting and singing a role as it is written- it is not a story about race and discrimination during the Burlesque era- so why would you expect it to be just because Audra was cast. Race is not broached in Gypsy- and in many shows- but many other subjects are explored. It is pointless to view every show through the lens of race just because a POC is playing that role."

Normally I would agree, except this isn't color blind casting. This production specifically is about race and the casting was done to explore that. So, Rose is black, Herbie is white, etc.

[BrodyFosse123]

Posted: 11/25/24 at 10:25am

Who keeps mentioning "Louise's apartment"?  We never see her apartment/home - that is her dressing room backstage at Minsky's unless this revival created a new scene.  

[RippedMan]

Posted: 11/25/24 at 10:38am

OhHiii said: "RippedMan said: "Also, the sets are always going to look cheap for Gypsy. It's not that kind of show. It's about poor people trying to make it and being in poor settings. The production should not be that glamorous."

Lol no. Just because the characters are poor does not mean the production design has to be ugly and incoherent. The issue is the pieces aren’t designed to speak in unison. And as I’ve said, I found even the wealthier settings like the producer’s office, Chinese restaurant and Louise’s apartment to be so out of place, they felt of a different show. The socioeconomic status of the characters have zero to do with putting a cohesive design on stage. And many-a musical has poor characters with sets people did not call ugly. What a silly thing to say."

Cool.

[QueenAlice]

Posted: 11/25/24 at 10:47am

It's Louise's dressing room and the set upstages the scene that plays on it.

[Jvj24605]

Posted: 11/25/24 at 11:47am

QueenAlice said: "It's Louise's dressing room and the set upstages the scene that plays on it."

Louise's opulent dressing room features a stunning portrait of Gypsy Rose Lee that contrasts with the "Look Rich, Feel Rich" billboard/mural that looms in the background during the (I think) Together, Wherever scene.

Louise is surrounded by a degree of luxury that Rose could only have dreamed of.  I think the set design perfectly helps feed the disappointment, fury, and pathos that Audra unleashes in hersubsequent Rose's Turn. 

Updated On: 11/25/24 at 11:47 AM

[verywellthensigh]

Posted: 11/25/24 at 12:03pm

Funny how TheOnlyOne2 and OharaFosseWolfe888 have the exact same writing style.

 

Anyways...there is a great musical to be made about a Black woman hustling her children through the early 20th century vaudeville circuit.  Wolfe seems like the perfect person to foster that musical.  Why aren't people writing star vehicles for Audra?  The only one who did seems to be Michael John LaChiusa.  

[ErmengardeStopSniveling]

Posted: 11/25/24 at 12:28pm

verywellthensigh said: "Why aren't people writing star vehicles for Audra? The only one who did seems to be Michael John LaChiusa."

That requires a star to be interested in developing a new work, which can take 5-10 years and probably also includes an off Broadway or out of town premiere, AND that person is saddled with the success of the material, rather than going into something knowing that the written material is there.

Even if the star is offered the role later in the development process, they have to actually want to do it. I know for a fact that Audra has been approached with original scores and she’s turned them down for one reason or another.

It is admirable when people like Idina Menzel want to put their creative capital behind developing a new musical, but that’s not everyone’s goal. 

[DrMonicaDeMoneco]

Posted: 11/25/24 at 12:32pm

So many bizarre comments from people that haven’t even seen the show!

Has anyone ACTUALLY seen the show?