How did Phantom lose Best Score??
How did Phantom lose Best Score??
#1How did Phantom lose Best Score??
Posted: 7/29/19 at 9:47pmThis was a travesty in my opinion. This is ALWs best score and has much better music than Into the Woods. Thoughts?
#2How did Phantom lose Best Score??
Posted: 7/29/19 at 9:52pmYou can't give best score to a show that only has 6 tunes that it recycles to over and over and over again.
#3How did Phantom lose Best Score??
Posted: 7/29/19 at 9:52pm
Personally, I think the ITW score is FAR superior to Phantom, which has a couple good songs but as a whole isn't a great score. I get why Phantom won Best Musical because of the spectacle of it all (though I would have voted for ITW) but I would not have understood at all if it beat ITW for Score (or Book).
#4How did Phantom lose Best Score??
Posted: 7/29/19 at 9:55pm
fashionguru_23 said: "You can't give best score to a show that only has 6 tunes that it recycles to over and over and over again."
SouthernCakes
Broadway Legend Joined: 7/29/19
Jarethan
Broadway Legend Joined: 2/10/11
#6How did Phantom lose Best Score??
Posted: 7/29/19 at 9:58pm
I agree with Broadway Flash. I dislike (intensely) the score to ITW, and want to scream every time I hear the title song, which was like a horrible ear worm for me for too long a time, since i never liked the song; but I have never gotten the reverence with which many posters on this board treat the show. I think Phantom has an excellent score, even if I admit that some of it gets repeated a bit too often. Of course, I think I heard the refrain of the title song about 20 times during that show.
#7How did Phantom lose Best Score??
Posted: 7/29/19 at 10:04pmThere are definitely melodies in Into The Woods that get repeated over and over again. Boring ones
#8How did Phantom lose Best Score??
Posted: 7/29/19 at 10:10pm
l
o
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It's clearly summer vacation around here.
#9How did Phantom lose Best Score??
Posted: 7/29/19 at 10:19pmLord when will these uneducated children go back to daycare?
#10How did Phantom lose Best Score??
Posted: 7/29/19 at 10:27pmSondheims musicals are so boring they put me to sleep. No wonder they always close.
#11How did Phantom lose Best Score??
Posted: 7/29/19 at 10:29pm
fashionguru_23 said: "You can't give best score to a show that only has 6 tunes that it recycles over and over and over again."
And because ALW recycles the same tune and lets every character sing the same music, his music does nothing to delineate character.
On the other hand, try to imagine the Wolf singing "I Know Things Now" or the Baker's Wife singing "There's a Giant in the Sky". Try even imagining Little Red singing "I Know Things Now" by the time she is singing "Your Fault". Of course, there are ensemble numbers, duets, etc., but each major character has his or her own music that, like lyrics, tells us who s/he is and who s/he becomes.
It's fine if one enjoys the tunes in PHANTOM. But a few songs aside, they don't add up to a dramatic musical score and the music doesn't change much with the characters. ITW does all that and more, as well as any Sondheim score.
carnzee
Broadway Star Joined: 9/2/11
#12How did Phantom lose Best Score??
Posted: 7/29/19 at 10:31pm
Interesting how both scores contain a song that sounds so similar to someone else's work.
"Music of the Night" has a passage that sounds identical to a portion of a Puccini aria from Girl of the Golden West( ALW was even sued).
"No one is alone" resembles the Candyman song from Willy Wonka.
UncleCharlie
Broadway Legend Joined: 6/26/16
#13How did Phantom lose Best Score??
Posted: 7/29/19 at 10:40pm
I did my doctoral dissertation on this very topic and uncovered a key fact that may explain this. Phantom received less votes than the show that won for Best Score.
I know, right?
#14How did Phantom lose Best Score??
Posted: 7/29/19 at 10:41pm
carnzee said: "Interesting how both scores contain a song that sounds so similar to someone else's work.
"Music of the Night" has a passage that sounds identical to a portion of a Puccini aria from Girl of the Golden West( ALW was even sued).
"No one is alone" resembles the Candyman song from Willy Wonka."
Yeah, I recently hear the Puccini for the first time and found myself singing the PHANTOM song to the opera score. (I was home alone at the time. No, I don't sing along at the theater or opera.)
But "No One Is Alone" and "Candy Man"? Huh? I'm not saying you're wrong, but I don't hear it.
ETA I've seen ITW from Laguna to Broadway to National Tour to recent revival tour to multiple amateur productions, and audiences ALWAYS start to squirm a little, late in Act II. Sondheim just expects lay people to sit through too many ballads in a row. I suspect the audience would LOVE to hear a commercial trifle like "Candy Man" toward the end of the evening!
#15How did Phantom lose Best Score??
Posted: 7/29/19 at 11:09pm
carnzee said: ""Music of the Night" has a passage that sounds identical to a portion of a Puccini aria from Girl of the Golden West (ALW was even sued)."
Also the fact the opening riff from Phantom was also accused of being stolen (by Roger Waters of Pink Floyd) is kind of hilarious. ALW really just takes anything.
Broadway61004
Broadway Legend Joined: 4/14/11
#16How did Phantom lose Best Score??
Posted: 7/29/19 at 11:13pm
UncleCharlie said: "I did my doctoral dissertation on this very topic and uncovered a key fact that may explain this. Phantom receivedless votes than the show that won for Best Score.
I know, right?"
But what about the electoral college votes? Maybe Phantom actually did get more votes.
#17How did Phantom lose Best Score??
Posted: 7/29/19 at 11:25pm
SouthernCakes said: "But if those 6 songs are good..."
Maybe, but compared to ITW's 20 great songs? It beats Phantom in quantity and quality, so it's not really a mystery to why ITW won. Art is subjective obviously, anyone here can say they enjoy Phantom more or think ITW puts them to sleep, but when it comes down deciding a prize, I don't see how Phantom has an objectivly better score. Besides, it won Best Musical, the prize that matters a ton more than score (evident by ITW not even making it to 1k performances and Phantom still playing after all this time, most certainly not just because of Best Musical, but it doesn't hurt) . You can have that and those for ITW can have score, that seems fair to say the least.
#18How did Phantom lose Best Score??
Posted: 7/30/19 at 12:00am
GavestonPS said:
But "No One Is Alone" and "Candy Man"? Huh? I'm not saying you're wrong, but I don't hear it.
The connection is incredibly slight, but the opening lines "Mother cannot guide you" are almost identical to the line "Who can make the sun rise?" but played at a slower pace. The basic melody sounds nothing like Candyman.
For the record, I don't think Lloyd Webber stole from Puccini, either.
That aside, ITW, though of lesser Sondheim vintage, is INFINITELY superior to Phantom. I say this as someone who not only doesn't hate Lloyd Webber but thinks Aspects of Love is criminally underrated.
#19How did Phantom lose Best Score??
Posted: 7/30/19 at 12:12amI believe Into the Woods contains some of Sondheim’s best lyrics. Let’s not forget, as the name of the award itself states, it is an award for “Music and/or Lyrics Written for the Theatre.” The lyrics of Phantom are...not lyrics Sondheim would write. While there are musical motifs in Into the Woods, like in Phantom, they’re full of intent, even when a different character sings the repeated melody. There are even lyrical motifs (“I know things now,” “and you know things now that you never knew before,” “and you learned something too, something you never knew”). Sure, Phantom has a very appealing score and it has inspired generations of audiences, but Into the Woods is such a carefully constructed score and is so successful in what it sets out it do. “Moments in the Woods” is, in my opinion, one of Sondheim’s very best songs.
#20How did Phantom lose Best Score??
Posted: 7/30/19 at 12:19amIt lost best score in the fog created by the fog machine. It still hasn’t been recovered.
After Eight
Broadway Legend Joined: 6/5/09
#21How did Phantom lose Best Score??
Posted: 7/30/19 at 12:19am
“This was a travesty in my opinion. This is ALWs best score and has much better music than Into the Woods.”
Of course it was a travesty.
Then why did it lose?...
Why do you think?
That's why.
After Eight
Broadway Legend Joined: 6/5/09
#22How did Phantom lose Best Score??
Posted: 7/30/19 at 12:26am
Broadway Flash wrote:
“Sondheims musicals are so boring they put me to sleep.”
Boring, for sure. Unfortunately, the music is so ugly it keeps me awake.
#23How did Phantom lose Best Score??
Posted: 7/30/19 at 12:31amLOL
Speed
Broadway Star Joined: 7/12/03
#24How did Phantom lose Best Score??
Posted: 7/30/19 at 1:34am
fashionguru_23 said: "You can't give best score to a show that only has 6 tunes that it recycles to over and over and over again."
ITW has less than 6 songs. Rapunzel's "AH AH AH HA etc" is a pervasive tune throughout. The phrase "Don't You Know What's Out There in the Woods" is the same musical phrase as the title phrase of "Giants in the Sky."
#25How did Phantom lose Best Score??
Posted: 7/30/19 at 1:49am
Some of you have never heard of intentional musical motifs and themes and it really shows!
But seriously, there's a stark difference between the repetition of musical and lyrical phrases in Into the Woods (all intentional and done with the intent of furthering story and/or character) and ALW's inability to write more than 3-5 songs per show. You can dislike Sondheim, but dismissing his work as boring or painting him as not having any skill as a writer is absurd.
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