No more MISS SAIGON...

[macbeth]

Posted: 4/25/21 at 7:29am

After this Twitter thread, in which recent star Eva Noblezada writes "WERE NOT GOING BACK TO MISS SAIGON", she explains "Hey Robin! I was able to recognize the traumatic/problematic messaging behind the show shortly before my departure. (Ask any of us) & as a Filipina playing a harmful Asian stereotype who was also a victimized/hyper-sexualized Vietnamese woman...glad that’s in the past"

https://twitter.com/EvaNoblezada/status/1385431271258484737

I went down the rabbit hole of thought pieces like https://www.societyandspace.org/articles/race-sex-and-death-from-miss-saigon-to-atlanta?fbclid=IwAR0HuFxzvQJASCF-Xxldtf5R_iAQk0XcQkyKtsBu4yYho6G_PhCeP9De0XQ, etc. 

Do you think we'll see the show revised somehow (is that even possible)? or is it going to be pushed into history? 

[bwayphreak234]

Posted: 4/25/21 at 8:23am

I think the recent revival is most likely the last we will see of the show on Broadway. 

[Boq101]

Posted: 4/25/21 at 10:02am

I see nothing wrong with this. Honestly one of the hard truths as shows fall away from what is considered okay to portray on stage (Miss Saigon isn't the first the there's plenty of reasons why shows that were much loved no longer get as much milage) is that a lot of the shows that are problematic are in fact shows that gave performers of color opportunities. A lot of them have a lot of missteps in their characterization that make it harder for those shows to get done more, even if we think doing those shows is a win for diversity. 

[HogansHero]

Posted: 4/25/21 at 10:14am

It is well to remember that, for a variety of reasons, almost all shows fade away. The key word is always resonance. The difference with something like this is that we are in the midst of a cultural revolution, white male dominance is ebbing, and those with a stake in it are kicking and screaming. 

[unclevictor]

Posted: 4/25/21 at 11:36am

Miss Saigon is a masterpiece of theatre!
I still get chills thinking about that helicopter!

If Kim would have just shot Ellen, instead of herself, we wouldn’t be discussing shelving Miss Saigon!!! Now there’s a good script revision suggestion!

Updated On: 4/25/21 at 11:36 AM

[Bettyboy72]

Posted: 4/25/21 at 12:01pm

This argument is nothing new. When there was a sit down production in Toronto (for which the Princess of Wales Theatre was built) there were protests outside the theatre for weeks and anti-Miss Saigon posters and leaflets all over the city.

As Hogan said, the times have changed and the musical now has to stand before the current cultural revolution. I think a lot of it’s appeal at the time of its opening was the groundswell about Lea’s voice and talent and the helicopter. People left blown away.

Having seen the last revival and tour, I was definitely more “meh” and felt the show had its moment decades earlier. I never need to see it again.

However, from the first time I saw it in the 90s I was unsettled and always wondered what it was like for the actresses to play those parts and be subjected to being grabbed, man handled, having to wear small clothes, dance provocatively and sing some of those demeaning lyrics. I wondered if the directors cared for their emotional safety or just treated those scenes as business as usual.

[Tag]

Posted: 4/25/21 at 12:20pm

Bettyboy72 said: "...be subjected to being grabbed, man handled, having to wear small clothes, dance provocatively and sing some of those demeaning lyrics."

I mean isn't that sort of the point the show was making?

It's too glorious a show and score to not be produced again. And it will be, one day.  Maybe with a disclaimer à la Gone With The Wind.

I wonder if the Danny Boyle helmed film will ever see the light of day?

[CATSNYrevival]

Posted: 4/25/21 at 12:28pm

Madama Butterfly is still around. Miss Saigon will likely be revived again someday too.

[unclevictor]

Posted: 4/25/21 at 12:35pm

There’s a 100 other shows that should be canceled before Miss Saigon, woke theatre police.
I’d name them but I can’t think of any.
Dames at Sea
There, I thought of one.

[Kad]

Posted: 4/25/21 at 12:41pm

If there were more pieces of musical theater that centered AAPI performers and stories, especially women, Miss Saigon would probably not be met with as much visceral reaction. But there aren't, and Miss Saigon is far and away the most well-known and most often produced. Basically every AAPI actor will go through at least one production of Miss Saigon in their careers, and I would imagine that there are many AAPI actors who have gone through several.

[HogansHero]

Posted: 4/25/21 at 12:48pm

Reminder:

"Woke" = alert to injustice in society. 

Using "woke" disparagingly = aligned with the racist/Trumpist radical right. 

It's a choice.  

[LizzieCurry]

Posted: 4/25/21 at 12:48pm

Tag said: "Bettyboy72 said: "...be subjected to being grabbed, man handled, having to wear small clothes, dance provocatively and sing some of those demeaning lyrics."

I mean isn't that sort of the point the show was making?"

Yes, but you still need to do these things to performers 8 times a week.

The reply about Ragtime gave me pause too, and I can't argue with it.

https://twitter.com/munchkiin_rae/status/1385586222861406212

[JasonC3]

Posted: 4/25/21 at 12:51pm

"Miss Saigon a masterpiece."

ROTFLMAO

Haven't laughed that hard in a long time.

[LizzieCurry]

Posted: 4/25/21 at 12:58pm

HogansHero said: "The difference with something like this is that we are in the midst of a cultural revolution, white male dominance is ebbing, and those with a stake in it are kicking and screaming."

Just wanted to make sure people don't miss this as the thread hopefully doesn't descend into dreck.

[Sutton Ross]

Posted: 4/25/21 at 1:13pm

It's a beautiful and extremely problematic show. It will continue to be produced all over the world, but hopefully less and less. 

[Sunny11]

Posted: 4/25/21 at 1:36pm

I would like to see an Asian creative team get a hold of it. For the same reason I would like to see Disney remake Sound of the South with an African - American team. Let’s see if these problematic projects could be repaired by a deft  touch  by talented people who have the cultural backgrounds to know what s wrong or missing from the original incarnations.

Updated On: 4/25/21 at 01:36 PM

[iluvtheatertrash]

Posted: 4/25/21 at 1:39pm

So it took two productions in two countries, and how many dollars in the bank until she realized it? Easy for her to say now that it's done, now that she's a Tony nominee, now that she's got the money in the bank, now that she's got a career. 

[imeldasturn]

Posted: 4/25/21 at 2:14pm

iluvtheatertrash said: "So it took two productions in two countries, and how many dollars in the bank until she realized it? Easy for her to say now that it's done, now that she's a Tony nominee, now that she's got the money in the bank, now that she's got a career."

True, but people also do change their mind. Viola Davis started being very critical of The Help a few years after having done it 

[lucynewlife]

Posted: 4/25/21 at 2:20pm

I'm genuinely curious as to what some actors who have done the show for literal decades (Jon Jon Briones comes to mind) think about it. Do they actually enjoy doing it? Do they struggle with the show's representation?

[jimmycurry01]

Posted: 4/25/21 at 2:20pm

iluvtheatertrash said: "So it took two productions in two countries, and how many dollars in the bank until she realized it? Easy for her to say now that it's done, now that she's a Tony nominee, now that she's got the money in the bank, now that she's got a career."

Many people have done things they are not proud of, or have come to regret, to get where they are today.

[HeyMrMusic]

Posted: 4/25/21 at 2:27pm

iluvtheatertrash said: "So it took two productions in two countries, and how many dollars in the bank until she realized it? Easy for her to say now that it's done, now that she's a Tony nominee, now that she's got the money in the bank, now that she's got a career."

Actually, yes, it is easier for her to say it now that it’s done. There are many who didn’t acknowledge the damage it has done to them until after they’ve experienced it. So many Asian performers who have done multiple productions of Miss Saigon have vowed never to do the show again and would love the show to disappear. Eva is hardly the first one who has come into a career by doing Miss Saigon and feels this way.

[RippedMan]

Posted: 4/25/21 at 2:31pm

I saw the last revival and was so incredibly bored. The music is pretty but all the characters are so bland and boring. I would not mind someone going in and rewriting/restructuring the show at all. 

And Ragtime, too. I agree. I was watching it like oof, nope. 

[¿Macavity?]

Posted: 4/25/21 at 3:27pm

Ragtime has been heavy on my mind lately as well. The score is astonishing and the creatives were well intentioned, but we all know that doesn't mean the show is safe from the contemporary lens.

I've never seen the show or bothered to read the libretto, but even listening through the OBC makes me cringe a little/a lot at times. Especially toward the end. But maybe the libretto fills in the gaps? I sadly doubt it.

Updated On: 4/25/21 at 03:27 PM

[VintageSnarker]

Posted: 4/25/21 at 4:00pm

iluvtheatertrash said: "So it took two productions in two countries, and how many dollars in the bank until she realized it? Easy for her to say now that it's done, now that she's a Tony nominee, now that she's got the money in the bank, now that she's got a career."

I have to agree that I found "shortly before my departure" questionable. Yes, she was young when she took the role, but I found the show problematic as a child. Maybe she knew the whole time or maybe she blocked it out for a while but I don't think she suddenly had an epiphany when she was about to leave. 

[Jarethan]

Posted: 4/25/21 at 4:28pm

I guess it is just a matter of time before opera houses stop playing Madame Butterfly.

I personally am getting tired of all this revisionist thinking.  There is no doubt in my mind that the story told in Miss Saigon was, sadly, true, in that there was a war on and innocent young ladies were victimized.  I don't think Miss Saigon glamorizes or white washes the issues; it is ultimately a tragedy, for heaven's sake, and does not condone her being a prostitute, it weeps for her.

I do not think Miss Saigon is a masterpiece, but I do think it can be great entertainment.  The helicopter scene is brilliant...it is not about a set coming down from the ceiling, it is about the situation being portrayed, the lighting, the music, the orchestration, the emotion, the feeling of pity for the people.  It is a great scene in a good musical.