Racist Rainbow- Page 8

[JBroadway]

Posted: 8/20/20 at 10:46pm

I'm very conflicted about the "cancel culture" mentality - and just be clear, I'm referring specifically to the trend of ruining a career, severing ties, and encouraging others to do the same. I'm NOT referring to callouts, backlash, criticism, or calls for accountability, nor am I talking about individuals choosing not to support someone - I wholeheartedly support al of those things. 

I actually do see some social value in a full-on cancellation, but I don't think it's always useful in every situation. I think "cancelation" (as I described above) is at its most useful when it happens to a celebrity who has an ongoing habit of using their status and position to exploit or degrade others. Because, by "cancelling" them, you are removing their power, and their platform, and thereby taking away the primary tools by which they do harm. 

With RR, I just don't necessarily see the social value in cancelling him, because he has acknowledged his harm, taken accountability, and has changed his behavior (as evidenced by the fact that he hasn't tweeted anything offensive in years). I do agree his apology has issues, but it seems to me like he means what he says, even if he does a bit too much self-praising in the process. So cancelling him doesn't seem to be an outlet for harm-reductionist. 


That said, I fully support people who feel that they can no longer derive enjoyment from his work because of this incident. I just don't necessarily see the value in ruining his career, and encouraging institutions or other individuals from severing ties with him.  

I'm open to hearing arguments to the contrary though. Like I said, I'm very conflicted about issues like this, so I don't claim to say any of this with utter confidence. And in case it isn't 100% clear, I'm in no way trying to claim that his past behavior wasn't gross. 

Updated On: 8/20/20 at 10:46 PM

[Sutton Ross]

Posted: 8/20/20 at 10:55pm

"Right now, systemic racism is killing people.....Black trans women are being murdered at a horrifying rate"

Both of those things were occurring at horrifying rates in 2010 Randy. BOTH OF THEM. 

Oh, and plugging his book during the apology and playing the victim? What trash. 

[Theater3232]

Posted: 8/20/20 at 11:01pm

Roseanne Barr was fired over a single statement that she apologized for.  These unfortunate comments from Randy happened on many many many occasions.  I think we all know what must happen here.

[CarlosAlberto]

Posted: 8/21/20 at 12:37am

joevitus said: "CarlosAlberto said: "joevitus said: "What does "get a pass" even mean? You don't like him: don't follow him. I'd never heard of the man until this thread was created, and now I'm getting exposed to these crappy one-liners. So thanks for spreading his name further, I guess.

This ishow things should work: you don't like something, you don't give your money or time to it. I don't like any of hisjokes I've read, but I dislike people trying to control the discourse even more. If people like him, I hope theykeep following him and ignore you. Bellowing what amounts tothis shouldn't be allowed promulgates the notion that things should have to be allowed in the first place.

Wow! So much word salad and still misses my point. Like we say in the 'hood: "You do you boo..."



There are far worse things in the world than a fifth rate comic."

You clearly don't get it. This is more than "some jokes" people dislike, this is more than people trying to control discourse. These are not jokes. It goes deeper than "if you don't like it, don't read it"This is hate speech in the guise of jokes, under the cloak of "comedy". Well guess what? It's not funny and should not be allowed nor condoned. This should not and cannot be normalized. EVER.

So whatever comes out of this it was of his own doing and is a direct result of his poor choices."

Odd definition of "get it" if by that you mean "understand the issue." I get it, all right. I've been around people trying to control thoughts all my life. I'm just sad so many of them for the past 30 years or so have been on the left.Used to be only conservatives tried to control what we were exposed to "for our own good."I think "you don't get it' must mean "you aren'tresponding as I think you should."

And they are just jokes. And you can control what you encounter. Especially in this day and age where no one station, channel, etc. has anything like 50% of the entertainmentaudience. It's all about what we choose to encounter these days.

The word "normalize" is part of the modern puritanical jargon. It's a scare word to make us think if we encounter something, we have no capacity to assess or reject it, only to embrace and conform to it. No one looks at jokes like this and says "Well if this comic makes this joke, everyone must feel this way about this thing, so it must be okay and I should think this way, too." That's not even how comedy works. For you to find that kind of humor funny, you have to already hold the viewpoints it espouses or you don't have the sharing a familiar experience that humor is based on.

But it's funny, if you think being exposed to this stuff normalizes it, that you are in favor of making these tweets known far and wide. By your logic, you're helping to build a new generation of bigots.


Wow! So much word salad and you still manage to miss my point. Like we say in the 'hood: "You do you boo!"

 

Updated On: 8/21/20 at 12:37 AM

[binau]

Posted: 8/21/20 at 3:25am

JBroadway said: "I'm very conflicted about the "cancel culture" mentality - and just be clear, I'm referring specifically to the trend of ruining a career, severing ties, and encouraging others to do the same. I'm NOT referring to callouts, backlash, criticism, or calls for accountability, nor am I talking about individuals choosing not to support someone - Iwholeheartedly support al of those things.

I actually do see some social value in a full-on cancellation,but I don't think it's always useful in every situation. I think "cancelation" (as I described above) is at its most useful when it happens to a celebrity who has an ongoing habit of using their status and position to exploit or degrade others. Because, by "cancelling" them, you are removing their power, and their platform, and thereby taking away the primary tools by which they doharm.

With RR, Ijust don't necessarily see the social value in cancelling him, because he has acknowledged his harm, taken accountability, and has changed his behavior (as evidenced by the fact that he hasn't tweeted anything offensive in years). I do agree his apology has issues, but it seems to me like he means what he says, even if he does a bit too much self-praisingin the process. So cancelling him doesn't seem to be an outlet forharm-reductionist.


That said, I fully support people who feel that they can no longer derive enjoyment from his work because of this incident. I just don't necessarily see the value in ruining his career, and encouraging institutions or other individuals from severing ties with him.

I'm open to hearing arguments to the contrary though. Like I said, I'm very conflicted about issues like this, so I don't claim to say any of this with utter confidence. And in case it isn't 100% clear, I'm in no way trying to claim that his past behavior wasn't gross."

I agree with your points. I also think we need to avoid a heavy-handed use of ‘cancel culture’ because social attitudes change over time and while conveniently right now cancel culture tends to align with a ‘progressive’ agenda, I don’t take for granted that if and when the moral value system changes over time to become more right-wing and people are being cancelled for things like their attitudes towards governments, good faith evaluation of religions, unusual gender/sexual expressions, academic or scientific outputs we are going to be in a very uncomfortable place indeed. 

Randy Rainbow is already ‘cancelled’ for me because I never really enjoyed him in the first place so I couldn’t care less for me what happens to him. But if people are enjoying his work in 2020 my understanding is that it is at its best satirical and at its worst harmless fun so I don’t know why it needs to be ‘cancelled’ for everyone. It would be a totally different conversation if he posted the tweets yesterday and stubbornly tried to justify them. 
 

I also find it interesting that right now there is a very simplistic binary on/off switch and apparently unless you hit the big off switch button as hard as possible it constitutes a ‘free pass’. There has to be something more complex in between.  

Updated On: 8/21/20 at 03:25 AM

[henrikegerman]

Posted: 8/21/20 at 8:03am

Why do I get the feeling that a lot of people piling on Randy are Joan Rivers fans with very short memories?

[Borstalboy]

Posted: 8/21/20 at 9:33am

It seems pretty clear from this treasure trove of tweets that RRs muse circa 2010 wasn't Joan Rivers or Sarah Silverman but Lisa Lampinelli, a shock stand-up inexplicably popular with the gays who was fond of going on podcasts to say that it was her goal to be "one of the all-timers".

She has since quit the business and now works as a life coach.

This apology article started out okay, but then exposed his narcissism big time, going on about HIS SHOW, HIS EMMY NOMINATION, HIS AUTOBIOGRAPHY and how there are people out there who are out to SILENCE HIM BECAUSE HE'S SUCH A POWERFUL VOICE.

Fare thee well, Randy.  You're far from irreplaceable.  

 

[seaweedjstubbs]

Posted: 8/21/20 at 10:01am

ArtMan said: "If Michael Richards (Seinfeld, for those who don't know) can get kicked to the curb, 14 years ago, (2006) for making racist remarks, then this person's words should be just as accountable 10 years ago. I don't know why people are giving him a pass."

Michael Richards returned to TV in 2013 in a show called KIRSTIE. I remember it being advertised as “the television return of Michael Richards.” Made me roll my eyes so hard. The show rightfully flopped and was cancelled after one season. Still, the fact that he was able to return to TV at all kinda shows that cancel culture isn’t real. Many people who get “cancelled” still manage to pop back up one way or another. 

I don’t think Randy Rainbow deserves a free pass, but everyone saying “Things weren’t that different 10 years ago” are just so so wrong. I’ve been watching old SNL episodes from about 10 years ago and many of the things that were thought of as “liberal” back then would be seen as right wing/offensive today. Rainbow’s use of transphobic language was the norm at the time. Did we just forget when everyone was calling each other a “Hot tranny mess”? Heck, it’s even a lyric in SHREK THE MUSICAL! I don’t think his tweets were funny AT ALL, but I still don’t think they should be viewed through our 2020 lenses.

[Same As It Ever Was]

Posted: 8/21/20 at 10:06am

henrikegerman said: "Why do I get the feeling that a lot of people piling on Randy are Joan Rivers fans with very short memories?"

Joan Rivers is dead, I think? Some people here are absolutely horny to keep defending him. 

[ArtMan]

Posted: 8/21/20 at 10:18am

Borstalboy said: "It seems pretty clear from this treasure trove of tweets that RRs muse circa 2010 wasn't Joan Rivers or Sarah Silverman but Lisa Lampinelli, a shock stand-up inexplicably popular with the gays who was fond of going on podcasts to say that it was her goal to be "one of the all-timers".

She has since quit the business and now works as a life coach.

This apology article started out okay, but then exposed his narcissism big time, going on about HIS SHOW, HIS EMMY NOMINATION, HIS AUTOBIOGRAPHY and how there are people out there who are out to SILENCE HIM BECAUSE HE'S SUCH A POWERFUL VOICE.

Fare thee well, Randy. You're far from irreplaceable.

"

I did not know that Lisa L had quit the business.  My brother really liked her and took his then bitch wife to a performance, which she hated.  I know when she got skinny, she lost some of her appeal to fans.  But I could have sworn, she, too, was involved in something controversial, that affected her career.  I did a search and didn't find anything.

[HogansHero]

Posted: 8/21/20 at 11:25am

Same As It Ever Was said: "Joan Rivers is dead, I think? Some people here are absolutely horny to keep defending him."

Joan Rivers was not above criticism, not even close. But her work had context. What was RR's context for his cavalcade of nasty, racist, hurtful "jokes"? Like I said, he was channeling Jackie Mason. What he said in those tweets was making a living by getting people to laugh at things at the expense of others. Why are you defending that? Unless you don't believe him, he says those things were horrible and make him sick. That leaves you defending the indefensible. We can discuss whether and to what extent he should be held to account for what he said then, but that does not travel through Joan Rivers et al. No one would have mentioned her if RR had not tried to aggrandize himself to the comparisons. It would be like Michael Riedel comparing himself to Murrow. 

[Highland Guy]

Posted: 8/21/20 at 11:39am

Updated On: 8/22/20 at 11:39 AM

[Owen22]

Posted: 8/21/20 at 1:47pm

Okay, can we forget about his trans-insulting?  Yes, Christian Seriano and SNL used the term "tranny" ten years ago too.  That sorta buys him an excuse.

But the race based humor is and was HORRIBLE.

I don't believe him to be any more or less racist than the next gay.  But.  As People Of Color have been telling us lately--words themselves have power.  We white apologists throw around the terms "context" and "intent" like they are Get Out of Jail Free cards.  But our POC (especially black) brothers and sisters have pointed out again and again that that isn't true.  Randy Rainbow said some truly racist sh*t and that isn't cool ten years or ten days ago.

I don't know what to do about him. But, oddly enough, as much as I wanted him to acknowledge and apologize, I found the apology so dishonest and self-aggrandizing that I was more sympathetic and supported him way more BEFORE it was issued!

[binau]

Posted: 8/21/20 at 2:28pm

I agree it was bad, even for the time (although I do think things have changed rapidly in the last 5 years on this issue that make it even more shocking. The world has changed even in the last few months on this issue). But the 10 years is not just about whether it was ok or not (it wasn’t), but whether we think he can show progress and change (my understanding from his fans is he does not continue this kind of thing now, but I’m not a fan so happy to be told otherwise), and what it should mean for his career. Isn’t the ultimate goal of social activism to change attitudes on these issues? In some ways it appears to have worked. But I realise some want to come for blood.

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 8/21/20 at 2:42pm

Borstal! Remember how much Lisa Lumpagnelli used to make me SEETHE when queens on this board would tell me to "get over it" and "she's an equal-opportunity offender"? And, oh gosh, when I would not get on board with the Joan Rivers fandom... it caused some friction.

[CindersGolightly]

Posted: 8/21/20 at 3:03pm

Just popping in to say that all of you repeating the T slur (whether in defense of Rainbow or against him) are in the wrong as well. Unless you yourself are trans (I am not), you have no right to use or reclaim that word. Have a little respect. Also, once again, cancel culture does. not. exist. Everyone who believes it does is old as hell, apparently. Randy will become a NYT best seller when his book comes out, unfortunately. This isn't changing anything.

Anyway, BWW, what's good? Y'all decide to stop being hypocrites yet? Y'all gonna end your partnership with Randy? Or do black lives only matter when you're getting a pay cut?

[Sutton Ross]

Posted: 8/21/20 at 3:12pm

Bww is staying silent, as always. What is good, though? I will repeat my questions that I asked a few days ago:

So, Rob and the rest of the staff: You have a choice to make. When you proclaimed "Black Lives Matter", did you mean it?  When you proclaim that you stand with LGBQIA+ people, did you mean it?  If so, please don't pay, employ, or give a platform to a man that says racist, homophobic, Islamophobic, sexist, violent, horrifying statements that are not jokes. 

[DAME]

Posted: 8/21/20 at 3:29pm

The tweets are awful.  He is done as far as I am concerned.   I have been done with him for a while now.  

[Moderator]

Posted: 8/21/20 at 3:31pm

Just clarifying since there have been a number of posts on this:

Randy has actually not been part of the BWW team for several years now. The videos that we’ve been running recently have been part of our “Rewind” series of re-airing older video content while the industry remains shutdown. We’ve taken his videos out of that series and agree with those here that these older, offensive tweets are inappropriate (both then and now).

[morosco]

Posted: 8/21/20 at 3:36pm

...please don't pay, employ, or give a platform to a man that says racist, homophobic, Islamophobic, sexist, violent, horrifying statements that are not jokes.

I'm only asking because I honestly don't know the whole story. Is Randy Rainbow paid or employed by Broadway World?

[Sutton Ross]

Posted: 8/21/20 at 3:38pm

Thanks Mods, appreciate your response and your removal of his videos. 

[Matt Rogers]

Posted: 8/21/20 at 7:34pm

His apology could not have been lamer. He’s only sorry if anyone was offended. That puts the blame on those who were offended for BEING offended. Bye gurl, bye.

[uncageg]

Posted: 8/22/20 at 1:34pm

CindersGolightly said: "Just popping in to say that all of you repeating the T slur (whether in defense of Rainbow or against him) are in the wrong as well. Unless you yourself are trans (I am not), you have no right to use or reclaim that word. Have a little respect. Also, once again, cancel culture does. not. exist. Everyone who believes it does is old as hell, apparently. Randy will become a NYT best seller when his book comes out, unfortunately. This isn't changing anything.

Anyway, BWW, what's good? Y'all decide to stop being hypocrites yet? Y'all gonna end your partnership with Randy? Or do black lives only matter when you're getting a pay cut?"

It's a conversation about a word that was used. I see no problem using it when discussing the use of the word by someone else. Nobody here is using it in an offensive way.

 

[CindersGolightly]

Posted: 8/22/20 at 6:12pm

uncageg said: "It's a conversation about a word that was used. I see no problem using it when discussing the use of the wordby someone else. Nobody here is using it in an offensive way."

Please apply that same logic to the n word and realize how misguided this reasoning could be. 

From my POV, it's easier and more respectful to everyone (especially the trans community) not to say a slur that was used. Slurs hold significant power and casually using it to quote someone is not something I (or many others) feel is okay or right. Saying the slur period is using it in an offensive way, whether you were quoting someone or inflicting violence upon them. I hope that made sense, and I say all of that with love.

And thank you Mods for your response, and your removal of Randy's videos.

[uncageg]

Posted: 8/22/20 at 6:32pm

CindersGolightly said: "uncageg said: "It's a conversation about a word that was used. I see no problem using it when discussing the use of the wordby someone else. Nobody here is using it in an offensive way."

Please apply that same logic to the n word and realize how misguided this reasoning could be.

From my POV, it's easier and more respectful to everyone (especially the trans community) not to say a slur that was used. Slurs hold significant power and casually using it to quote someone is not something I (or many others) feel is okay or right.Saying the slur period is using it in an offensive way, whether you were quoting someone or inflicting violence upon them. I hope that made sense, and I say all of that with love.

And thank you Mods for your response, and your removal of Randy's videos."

 

I figured this would come up after my post.

Well, I am a black man. I have used the "N" word many times in conversations with people of many colors. And they have also used it in conversation with me. If it is a mature and intelligent conversation, it is no problem. If YOU have a problem saying it, that is fine. So in your world the reasoning is misguided, but not in mine or a lot of people I know.

 

Updated On: 8/22/20 at 06:32 PM