BAD CINDERELLA to close on June 4- Page 11

[BarnabyTucker]

Posted: 2/18/23 at 6:17pm

Dylan Smith4 said: "mememe said: "Everything, every single thing in that show has had to pass the ALW taste test first. He is involved in every aspect, and micro manages each and every department. This is what he does

it’s trash because of him"

Not everything is trash but you are definitely right about his “taste test”. Some of the music is really good I will give him that. I just think that if he wasn’t so controlling over every aspect of the show and gave more time to work on it instead of rushing to get it on stage, it probably would’ve been a better show."

^ This. This I agree with.

I often feel like he churns out shows like they're products. I remember the media blitz they did about his Wizard of Oz at the Palladium. It didn't feel like an artistic endeavor but more like a "come bring the grandkids to see Michael Crawford in The Wizard of Oz!" corporate affair.

Maybe the artist as the producer is the problem? Artistic impulses being clouded by thoughts of what will sell?

I'm the first to give any show the benefit of the doubt and always try to walk in with an open mind, so that's how I plan on approaching this one but I'd be lying if I said my own bias wasn't going to make it hard.

[RippedMan]

Posted: 2/18/23 at 9:48pm

That's exactly what he's doing. He's purposely picking Wizard of Oz, Cinderella, for their built in audience without having to pay some big movie studio to use the rights. He's a businessman (now) who moonlights as an artist. That's why we've got a Phantom sequel. He just wants the money. He could easily live off the royalties of Phantom and all the regional rights, but instead, wants us to constantly be talking about him. That's what rubs us all the wrong way. I think School of Rock is actually a fantastic show. This, however, looks poorly directed and designed, and it's all coming from him as producer. This show needed that design IT factor and they failed.

[ErmengardeStopSniveling]

Posted: 2/18/23 at 10:40pm

ALW is the most commercially-successful musical theatre composer since Richard Rodgers, and Rodgers *also* lost his way later in life and became too much of a dominant force as composer/producer/egomaniac. ALW's best work was done alongside Tim Rice, Trevor Nunn, Hal Prince, Robert Stigwood, or Cameron Mackintosh; Rodgers needed Hart or Hammerstein.

I would love a world in which ALW would relinquish control a bit and give himself over to a John Tiffany or Bart Sher or Marianne Elliott or Alex Timbers or another brilliant theatre mind as director. He still has some gorgeous melodies in him, and on paper he had two great collaborators for Cinderella (David Zippel is a good lyricist of the old school, and Emerald Fennell is an interesting writer) but the output would be much different if he didn't try to have full control over everything else.

And I say this as someone who had a blast at SCHOOL OF ROCK and found it an effective –– if not radically different –– adaptation!

[jacobsnchz14]

Posted: 2/18/23 at 10:52pm

ErmengardeStopSniveling said: "ALW is the most commercially-successful musical theatre composer since Richard Rodgers, and Rodgers *also* lost his way later in life and became too much of a dominant force as composer/producer/egomaniac. ALW's best work was done alongside Tim Rice, Trevor Nunn, Hal Prince, Robert Stigwood, or Cameron Mackintosh; Rodgers needed Hart or Hammerstein.

I would love a world in which ALW would relinquish control a bit and give himself over to a John Tiffany or Bart Sher or Marianne Elliott or Alex Timbers or another brilliant theatre mind as director. He still has some gorgeous melodies in him, and on paper he had two great collaborators for Cinderella (David Zippel is a good lyricist of the old school, and Emerald Fennell is an interesting writer) but the output would be much different if he didn't try to have full control over everything else.

And I say this as someone who had a blast at SCHOOL OF ROCK and found it an effective –– if not radically different –– adaptation!"

I feel like a lot of his recent work has involved writing the score of a song and expecting co-writers to write within his frame, lyrically and structurally for the book. Especially if he likes sing-thru musicals. That means he writes song after song and dictates a structure a book writer may have to adapt to. 

[chewy5000]

Posted: 2/18/23 at 11:22pm

I’m pretty sure that’s how he’s always worked.

[BarnabyTucker]

Posted: 2/18/23 at 11:36pm

I caught tonight's evening performance. I alas do not know how to do the spoiler box so SPOILER ALERT and proceed with caution.

I quite enjoyed myself. It’s a mixed bag—and it’s FAR from a finished product—but I was pleasantly surprised by how much I enjoyed it.

It feels like ALW and co. sat around a table, wrote concepts for a modern Cinderella on flash cards, and storyboarded it.

And then they stopped.

They took those cards and made a libretto.

The main storytelling problem is that they present the audience with a bunch of ideas that don’t go anywhere.

“What if the Fairy Godmother is a darker, more fae folk trickster type AND she’s a plastic surgeon?” OK! But why? How should Cinderella meet this Fairy Godmother? What’s her M.O. if she’s not this maternal figure cheering on Cinderella?

“What if everyone in town hates Cinderella?” OK! But why? Why would she deface her best friend’s brother’s memorial statue? Why does everyone think she’s ugly?

“What if the Stepmother has dirt on the Queen so she’s going to blackmail the Queen into making her son marry one of her daughters?” OK! What’s the dirt? We’re just gonna lay the dirt out in a comedic charm number where there’s nothing really of substance that would make the Queen blush?

In execution, it’s enjoyable (clearly my favorite word for this show) but I was so frustrated the whole time because there were some genuinely interesting ideas they tabled that they never went anywhere with.

There’s a good show to be found here, but it would take a strong book writer with a lab or workshop or two to figure out how to make something of it.

Design wise, I loved it. It was a cutesy fairy tale world and I adored every gown the Queen or Stepmother came out in.

The company from top to bottom is exceptional and they're giving their all. Not enough can be said about Grace McLean and Carolee Carmello. They have such great chemistry and their Act I number was giving me major Vera and Mame vibes.

Jordan Dobson is choice casting as the hapless and lovable prince. He makes the most of what he's given.

^ That's another big issue I had; one ballad after another. I actually groaned in the second act as he went from one ballad to a reprise of another.

FINALLY, I have to say that Linedy Genao is an excellent actor in her own right but this show desperately needs a Carrie Hope Fletcher type at its center.

For the life of me I could not understand what made Cinderella different from anyone in this kingdom. She wears pants? She has her hair up in a bun?

This show needs a singular talent at its core. I can't help but think Bonnie Milligan would have made a meal of this score and this role.

Again, I enjoyed myself. I don't know who the target audience for this is. The tourists sitting around me were very unhappy with it and voiced their disproval while shuffling out the door.

If not for tourists, who is this for?

[EDSOSLO858]

Posted: 2/18/23 at 11:43pm

Funny you should mention the out-of-towners, Barnaby. In the London iteration's opening number (which has been changed for Broadway), the villagers mention that Belleville's survival is heavily dependent on tourism.

I can't help but think the same about this show itself. If the tourists don't start coming, odds are the soft ticket sales thus far continue, and it might not stand much of a chance post-opening.

[nativenewyorker2]

Posted: 2/18/23 at 11:43pm

YES WHATS THE DIRT!? I KEPT ON WAITING AND WAITING FOR IT!!! AND THEY NEVER SAID BUT THEY MENTIONED 5000 TIMES.

 

Also this Cinderella feels like a supporting role

 

[BarnabyTucker]

Posted: 2/18/23 at 11:46pm

EDSOSLO858 said: "Funny you should mention the out-of-towners, Barnaby. In the London iteration's opening number (which has been changed for Broadway), the villagers mention that Belleville's survival is heavily dependent on tourism.

I can't help but think the same about this show itself. If the tourists don't start coming, odds are the soft ticket sales thus far continue, and it might not stand much of a chance post-opening."

A family in front and next to me (they took up two rows) had little girls in these poofy, princess dresses.

They were not pleased with the show they got. lol

[BarnabyTucker]

Posted: 2/18/23 at 11:48pm

nativenewyorker2 said: "YES WHATS THE DIRT!? I KEPT ON WAITING AND WAITING FOR IT!!! AND THEY NEVER SAID BUT THEY MENTIONED 5000 TIMES.



Also this Cinderella feels like a supporting role

"

They just laid so many plot points out on the table and never went ANYWHERE with any of them.

Oh! Hello stepsister who is now friends with Cinderella but not really because after that one scene we're never going to revisit it.

[Jordan Catalano]

Posted: 2/18/23 at 11:51pm

You said it exactly right. And these plot holes are GLARING and have been there now for a number of years with people complaining about it, it’s not like they’re going to see this and be shocked to discover them which is extremely annoying. And these “holes”, for the most part, could be filled with a few extra lines of dialogue - and that’s it. If someone from the team sees this send me a PM and I’ll write them for you in 2 minutes. 

[BarnabyTucker]

Posted: 2/18/23 at 11:54pm

Jordan Catalano said: "You said it exactly right. And these plot holes are GLARING and have been there now for a number of years with people complaining about it, it’s not like they’re going to see this and be shocked to discover them which is extremely annoying. And these “holes”, for the most part, could be filled with a few extra lines of dialogue - and that’s it. If someone from the team sees this send me a PM and I’ll write them for you in 2 minutes."

Jordan, I absolutely agree with you that the team must have wanted this to be gay camp. They needed a young, queer voice collaborating on this.

[Jordan Catalano]

Posted: 2/19/23 at 12:02am

Yup. It would have solved so many problems. 

[TheOnlyOne2]

Posted: 2/19/23 at 1:49am

If they want camp, they could make the show about two over the top matriarchs battling it out.  Relegate Cinderella and the Prince Sebastian to featured roles, and  upgrade Prince Charming and his husband to match the daughters. Like many mentioned,  it doesn't pursue a strong direction in the storyline. 

 

Updated On: 2/19/23 at 01:49 AM

[binau]

Posted: 2/19/23 at 4:31am

How is “Only you, lonely you”? Thought that was the most magical song in the show. Feels authentic for ALW too - not like he is awkwardly trying to be hip and cool and it coming across as a little uncool and flat (see: title song). 

[defenses]

Posted: 2/19/23 at 7:47am

nativenewyorker2 said: "YES WHATS THE DIRT!? I KEPT ON WAITING AND WAITING FOR IT!!! AND THEY NEVER SAID BUT THEY MENTIONED 5000 TIMES."

Wait… I thought the stepmother was overtly implying the Queen used to be a prostitute. She mentioned seeing her at an inn and later sings “so many men!” I don’t think she said it outright because the reason why why stepmother knew her was because she was one as well. 

[fbueller]

Posted: 2/19/23 at 7:56am

DrewJoseph said: "Interesting. To me, from what I’ve seen, everything looks cheaper than it did in London. From the set to the costumes."

How long did ‘BC’ run in London?  Was it a success there?  I am just becoming familiar with it. Some of the initial feedback and video footage looks horrible.

[Dylan Smith4]

Posted: 2/19/23 at 8:51am

fbueller said: "How long did ‘BC’ run in London? Was it a success there? I am just becoming familiar with it. Some of the initial feedback and video footage looks horrible."

It ran for just under a year. I can’t say if it was successful as I never saw it in London. The thing that gets me to this day was when ALW said in his letter at the closing show that it was a “costly mistake”. Frankly, that shocked me that he would say something like that after all the hard work the cast and crew put in to make the show come to life night after night. I just hope he doesn’t make the same mistakes now that it’s on Broadway. 

[Huss417]

Posted: 2/19/23 at 9:27am

Dylan Smith4 said: "fbueller said: "How long did ‘BC’ run in London? Was it a success there? I am just becoming familiar with it. Some of the initial feedback and video footage looks horrible."

It ran for just under a year. I can’t say if it was successful as I never saw it in London. The thing that gets me to this day was when ALW said in his letter at the closing show that it was a “costly mistake”. Frankly, that shocked me that he would say something like that after all the hard work the cast and crew put in to make the show come to life night after night. I just hope he doesn’t make the same mistakes now that it’s on Broadway."

Just to add context.

Andrew Lloyd Webber Says ‘Costly Mistake’ Comments About ‘Cinderella’ Were Misunderstood

https://variety.com/2022/theater/news/andrew-lloyd-webber-cinderella-costly-mistake-comments-backlash-1235292493/

 

[songanddanceman2]

Posted: 2/19/23 at 10:04am

Well of course he said it was misunderstood, the man and has ego can't take responsibility for anything. ALW acted like a bratty child here in the UK during Covid affecting his show, he's a horrible person. 

[BarnabyTucker]

Posted: 2/19/23 at 10:30am

binau said: "How is “Only you, lonely you”? Thought that was the most magical song in the show. Feels authentic for ALW too - not like he is awkwardly trying to be hip and cool and it coming across as a little uncool and flat (see: title song)."

It's a lovely song and Jordan Dobson does an amiable job delivering it.

One of the strangest staging choices is having the actors hopping around the stage frantically during their ballads. Let them stand center stage and do what they do best.

[binau]

Posted: 2/19/23 at 10:42am

ALW’s comments were obviously taken out of context. Between the London and Broadway production it is very clear that ALW believes the show is not a mistake. Perhaps the sentiment of some here is that he should, so that it was laid to rest.
 

How can one man be criticised for both loving the show so much he puts his name all over it and mounts two productions while also ‘hating’ it?

[defenses]

Posted: 2/19/23 at 10:48am

Huss417 said: "Dylan Smith4 said: "fbueller said: "How long did ‘BC’ run in London? Was it a success there? I am just becoming familiar with it. Some of the initial feedback and video footage looks horrible."

It ran for just under a year. I can’t say if it was successful as I never saw it in London. The thing that gets me to this day was when ALW said in his letter at the closing show that it was a “costly mistake”. Frankly, that shocked me that he would say something like that after all the hard work the cast and crew put in to make the show come to life night after night. I just hope he doesn’t make the same mistakes now that it’s on Broadway."

Just to add context.

Andrew Lloyd Webber Says ‘Costly Mistake’ Comments About ‘Cinderella’ Were Misunderstood

https://variety.com/2022/theater/news/andrew-lloyd-webber-cinderella-costly-mistake-comments-backlash-1235292493/"

Not defending him, but I hate reading quotes out of context. I don't think he was talking about Cinderella. From the letter: "I keep thinking if only we had opened three months later, we wouldn’t have had to postpone our opening twice because of COVID… I promise you we would have been here for a very long time to come. My huge thanks to everyone. We kept the government’s feet to the flames and led the charge to the West End opening again. It might have been a costly mistake, but I am proud of what we did and will forever be grateful to everyone who supported me... ‘Cinderella’ got some of the best reviews of my career and I am immensely proud of it and it’s hugely due to you all.”

[TaffyDavenport]

Posted: 2/19/23 at 11:08am

It should be obvious to anyone with half a brain that the "costly mistake" was pushing to open it when they did and not the show itself, but people, particularly ALW haters, see what they wanna see.

Updated On: 2/19/23 at 11:08 AM

[jkcohen626]

Posted: 2/19/23 at 11:42am

I think it's funnier to interpret it as him saying that his own show was a costly mistake, but you guys are right that that was definitely not what he was trying to say.