#1
Posted: 10/4/24 at 12:07pm
That’s the post. Dim all the lights and dim them separately for Gavin Creel and Ken Page.
#4
Posted: 10/4/24 at 12:27pm
Those who feel mad about this might be better off channeling that into activism as a way of honoring Creel –– fighting for democracy and LGBTQ+ rights –– which by all accounts Creel himself might feel is a better use of time than yelling about a lightswitch.
As with funerals, these are really things for the living to help them process and honor the deceased, and it surely won't be the onlymemorial for him. I can't get mad about a partial-dimming for ~95% of Broadway deaths, but that's just me.
Once again proposing an annual Broadway Memorial Celebration (in a Broadway house + streamed) for all those who passed within a given year, that can have speeches and performances honoring everyone from stagehands to actors to producers to authors and everyone in between, followed by a full dimming/moment of silence for all in the community. AND for the Broadway League to implement standardization guidelines for individual dimmings (and publish those rules), which would probably be based on number of weeks employed on Broadway contracts, awards, and stature within respective unions/guilds. As it stands now, individual dimmings favor those who had front-facing roles, disincentivizing those who might have spent 30 years backstage or in an office or contributed millions to fund shows.
#5
Posted: 10/4/24 at 12:34pm
If they didn't dim the lights for Jan Maxwell, it seems unlikely they will for Creel and Page.
Showbiz: A popularity contest, even in death.
#6
Posted: 10/4/24 at 12:42pm
verywellthensigh said: "If they didn't dim the lights for Jan Maxwell, it seems unlikely they will for Creel and Page.
Showbiz: A popularity contest, even in death."
Select Broadway theaters will dim their lights for the late Gavin Creel at a date and time being coordinated with his family, the Broadway League said today.
https://deadline.com/2024/10/gavin-creel-broadway-lights-dimming-1236107552/
"I hope your Fanny is bigger than my Peter."
Mary Martin to Ezio Pinza opening night of Fanny.
Updated On: 10/4/24 at 12:42 PM
#7
Posted: 10/4/24 at 1:17pm
How about we just stop dimming the lights, period, since it seems like every time someone passes, it becomes a contest of who can be the loudest on social media to demand something from the Broadway League? Here's the truth: When the light dimming first became a thing, someone even of Gavin Creel's stature wouldn't even be considered for a light dimming, let alone all of the other names thrown around lately.
The sad fact is, someone who has been involved in the Broadway community dies almost every single day. You cannot dim the lights for everyone and clearly there are far too many people who don't understand that. It was a practice to be reserved for only the absolute G.O.A.T.s of the Broadway community.
To be clear, I'm not even saying Gavin doesn't deserve this or that he wasn't a massive part of the community. But this whole tradition has frankly become ridiculous at this point because of all the controversy that erupts every time the League tries (or doesn't try) to do it. So how about we stop and find a fresh way to honor those we've lost?
#8
Posted: 10/4/24 at 1:22pm
Agreed, this board goes insane over dimming the lights and the Kennedy Center Honors.
I see all those leech influences have already made their reaction videos. Overreactions do everybody a disservice
Updated On: 10/4/24 at 01:22 PM
#9
"Hey little girls, look at all the men in shiny shirts and no wives!" - Jackie Hoffman, Xanadu, 19 Feb 2008
Posted: 10/4/24 at 1:41pm
if there was an option for lights to dim at the theatres they performed, I think that could be a good compromise to literally all or nothing. Otherwise, let's all calm down, there's far more bizarre choices being made out there.
"Hey little girls, look at all the men in shiny shirts and no wives!" - Jackie Hoffman, Xanadu, 19 Feb 2008
#10
Posted: 10/4/24 at 5:28pm
I like the idea of dimming the lights at all the theatres they performed in and saving the full dimming for the true legends - the Stephen Sondheims, Hal Princes, etc. A very rare occurrence. But I feel as though this genie will be tough to put back in the bottle with the people they have dimmed for.
#11
Posted: 10/4/24 at 8:25pm
Broadway61004 said: "
You cannot dim the lights for everyone and clearly there are far too many people who don't understand that.
Serious question - why not?
#12
Posted: 10/4/24 at 8:53pm
Alexander Lamar said: "Broadway61004 said: "
You cannot dim the lights for everyone and clearly there are far too many people who don't understand that.
Serious question - why not?"
Because if you constantly dim they, they lose any significance. I think Mr. wormwood has made the best suggestion yet.
Of course, there is always going to be subjectivity…does LMM, with 2 shows, get the full magilla or just the lights out at the Rodgers (and the Booth, if you consider Free Style Supreme)?
#13
Posted: 10/4/24 at 9:03pm
Jarethan said: "does LMM, with 2 shows, get the full magilla or just the lights out at the Rodgers (and the Booth, if you consider Free Style Supreme)?"
What, no love for Bring It On?
#14
Posted: 10/4/24 at 9:13pm
Have to admit that I forgot that he was even involved with that (wonder where his head is in that subject?). So, two theatres or the magilla. So much arbitrariness.
Maybe they should just stop the whole thing, let the obsessives move on to some other earth shattering topic to stress about, and expand the Tony remembrance section (obviously in the pre-show…unless you warrant ‘legend).’
#15
Posted: 10/4/24 at 9:15pm
Really, the mistake was made whenever this began being handed out like a participation trophy. At the start, according to the below article, it was irregular and far between: 1952 for Gertrude Lawrence, then 1960 for Oscar Hammerstein II, then Alfred Lunt in 1977. Surely important people died in the years between those occasions, but they didn’t get a dimming.
People now seem to expect it as a matter of course. I’d ask who WON’T they demand a full dimming for? Where does it begin and end? Oh, you’re saying so-and-so didn’t contribute as much as Gavin Creel or Marin Mazzie did?
https://www.nytimes.com/2014/10/19/nyregion/a-brief-history-of-dimming-the-lights-on-broadway.html
You can always count on me 🎶
#16
Posted: 10/4/24 at 10:20pm
BorisTomashevsky said: "Really, the mistake was made whenever this began being handed out like a participation trophy. At the start, according to the below article, it was irregularand far between: 1952 for Gertrude Lawrence, then 1960 for Oscar Hammerstein II, then Alfred Lunt in 1977. Surely importantpeople died in the years between those occasions, but they didn’t get a dimming.
People now seem to expect it as a matter of course. I’d ask who WON’T they demand a full dimming for? Where does it begin and end? Oh, you’re saying so-and-so didn’t contribute as much as Gavin Creel or Marin Mazzie did?
https://www.nytimes.com/2014/10/19/nyregion/a-brief-history-of-dimming-the-lights-on-broadway.html"
What is capricious is the full vs partial approach.
Dim them all or not at all. No one is partially worth this tribute, or is he worth 50% of the lights? The partial lights is most insulting.
Listen, I don't take my clothes off for anyone, even if it is "artistic". - JANICE
Updated On: 10/4/24 at 10:20 PM
#17
Posted: 10/5/24 at 3:27pm
Broadway61004 said: "How about we just stop dimming the lights, period"
Agree.
Non sibi sed patriae
Updated On: 10/5/24 at 03:27 PM
#18
Posted: 10/5/24 at 6:23pm
When I pass I'm afraid they'll just unscrew 6 bulbs.
#19
Posted: 10/5/24 at 6:32pm
Have any of you guys actually attended the dimming?
the only one I went to that had a crowd was Stephen Sondheim’s dimming.
one of my friends is skeptical that *all* theaters actually dim the lights. I mean does anyone even check?
#20
Posted: 10/5/24 at 6:52pm
the speed with which people adopt a cause, based on zero information, consideration, introspection...
who are the lights being dimmed FOR exactly? no one cares, it just MUST HAPPEN. reminds me of so many iterations of political/social activism these days.
its a lovely idea for any given theater to dim the lights for someone associated with a production there. and its lovely to turn that into a memorial moment for the deceased's fans.
but turning it into a Broadway-wide phenomenon is so self destructive--to the point that we now have people actually suggesting we dim all the lights all the time---for WHAT? for WHO? nobody knows and nobody cares.
#21
Posted: 10/5/24 at 10:06pm
ErmengardeStopSniveling said: "Those who feel mad about this might be better off channeling that into activism as a way of honoring Creel –– fighting for democracy and LGBTQ+ rights ––which by all accounts Creel himself might feel is a better use of time than yelling about a lightswitch.
As with funerals, these are really things for the living to help them process and honor the deceased, and it surely won't be theonlymemorial for him.I can't get mad about a partial-dimming for ~95% of Broadway deaths, but that's just me."
The thing about fighting for democracy and LGBTQ+ rights is it's really hard. There's nothing wrong with sometimes also focusing on the low hanging fruit of problems that are really easy to fix.
Partial dimming is inherently insulting the people who cared about the deceased. If the Broadway League wants to honor someone in this fashion, it has to be all Broadway theaters participating. In terms of making the selection process for who qualifies for the honor more fair and transparent, what you were suggesting sounds perfectly reasonable.
Celebrating someone without making it a backhanded compliment is not that complicated.
#22
Posted: 10/9/24 at 4:01pm
Updated On: 10/9/24 at 04:01 PM
#23
Posted: 10/9/24 at 4:46pm
KevinKlawitter said: "All Broadway Theatre lights will now be dimmed in tribute to Gavin Creel, Adrian Bailey, and Maggie Smith"
I loved all three of them, but there's a world of difference between their Broadway legacies and those of Oscar Hammerstein, Stephen Sondheim, or Hal Prince. Light-dimming is losing as much significance as the standing ovation, which used to mean something because it was reserved for the most rare and exceptional of performances but has now become a near reflex reaction to any curtain call. I truly mean this with no disrespect to any of these three, who were all remarkable performers and by all accounts wonderful people as well, but this should never have turned into a popularity contest akin to the loathsome sporadic applause that accompanies every "In Memoriam" reel at an awards show. Glad to see the Broadway League will be conducting a review of their procedures.
#24
Posted: 10/9/24 at 4:53pm
This tradition needs to be replaced by something else. Seems like every time we lose someone, there's controversy, emotions and arguments about who is deserving and how many theatres will participate. The fight over how to memorialize these artists is exhausting and completely takes attention away from remembering their contributions.
And how many people actually go to the Broadway district and observe the dimming vs. how many get involved in the demands and controversy? I mean, how about a nice memorial wall or something, where they can add a star or plaque or something to memorialize the person, and where people can visit and remember those we've lost? Certainly more practical and accessible than one fleeting minute of turning off the marquees. I appreciate what the tradition stands for, but there has to be a better way. If you're that attached to light dimming, turn off the lights at your house and have a moment.
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