Posted: 8/25/22 at 1:22pm
I have always been surprised, it's not a Broadway show. Can't wait.
Posted: 8/25/22 at 2:15pm
BrodyFosse123 said: "The 1977 featured a score of standards. It only featured 4 original songs written for the film by John Kander and Fred Ebb: The Theme from “New York, New York,” “There Goes the Ball Game,” “But the World Goes ‘Round,” and “Happy Endings.” Also, none of the songs were sung in the narrative of the film by any of the characters - they were performance songs for Liza’s character Francine Evans.
Bummed to read it isn’t a direct adaptation of the film as it’s one of my favorite films and one that lends itself to a musical adaptation incorporating the material used in the film and expanding on it. "
One of the great benefits of a chat board is that everyone is entitled to an opinion. I thought the movie was awful, with some great musical numbers (and not all were great). But the book scenes made it deadly dull a lot of the time.
Posted: 8/25/22 at 2:18pm
Dollypop said: "I saw the movie when it was first released and loved the songs but hated the clunky story."
You need to revisit the film, which was restored for its DVD/Blu-ray release to 163 minutes. It’s original cut was 155 minutes, which was cut down to 136 minutes for its 1977 theatrical release, which included only a short bit of “Happy Endings.” The DVD includes all the footage cut and includes the full “Happy Endings” musical number, which was an homage to Judy Garland’s “Born in a Trunk” sequence from the 1954 version of A STAR IS BORN.
Posted: 8/25/22 at 2:42pm
Good news, but I’m still hoping Into the Woods extends one more time to early January.
Posted: 8/25/22 at 3:31pm
Wonderful news! It brings me such joy to see Kander continue to turn out work at the pace he does. What a treasure.
Posted: 8/25/22 at 4:10pm
BrodyFosse123 said: "Dollypop said: "I saw the movie when it was first released and loved the songs but hated the clunky story."
You need to revisit the film, which was restored for its DVD/Blu-ray release to 163 minutes. It’s original cut was 155 minutes, which was cut down to 136 minutes for its 1977 theatrical release, which included only a short bit of “Happy Endings.” The DVD includes all the footage cut and includes the full “Happy Endings” musical number, which was an homage to Judy Garland’s “Born in a Trunk” sequence from the 1954 version of A STAR IS BORN."
Right, because as everybody knows, the best way to improve on a bad film is to make it LONGER!
Posted: 8/25/22 at 4:18pm
JSquared2 said: "BrodyFosse123 said: "Dollypop said: "I saw the movie when it was first released and loved the songs but hated the clunky story."
You need to revisit the film, which was restored for its DVD/Blu-ray release to 163 minutes. It’s original cut was 155 minutes, which was cut down to 136 minutes for its 1977 theatrical release, which included only a short bit of “Happy Endings.” The DVD includes all the footage cut and includes the full “Happy Endings” musical number, which was an homage to Judy Garland’s “Born in a Trunk” sequence from the 1954 version of A STAR IS BORN."
Right, because as everybody knows, the best way to improve on a bad film is to make it LONGER!"
Well, if a movie intended to be long is cut down in such a way that makes the story less coherent or the pacing messy, that could very well be true. That infamously happened with Once Upon a Time in America, for instance, where the original nearly 4-hour cut was praised, but US distributors insisted it be cut by 90 minutes and re-edited, and that version was panned. Heaven's Gate also began to have a critical re-examination when the longer original cut became more available to watch.
I haven't seen any cut of New York, New York yet, but Scorsese typically knows what he's doing when it comes to editing.
Posted: 8/25/22 at 4:22pm
Did Kander and Ebb write a full score for a stage adaptation before Fred Ebb passed and it just wasn't produced, or is this mostly a new score from Kander and Miranda?
Posted: 8/25/22 at 4:45pm
I too am very curious about the score. I’m sort of expecting it will be a combo of the 4 K&E songs from the movie, a few other songs written by K&E (either trunk songs or repurposed from other, less famous shows), and a few written by Lin. I hope it will all sound coherent and move the story.
Certainly can’t be worse than something like Bullets Over Broadway.
Posted: 8/25/22 at 7:40pm
I am an enormous, enormous fan of the film "New York, New York." It is truly one of my favorites. I will wish this project well, if it will get more people to appreciate the movie, which I (and many others) consider a criminally underrated masterpiece.
The last 45 minutes of the restored version is basically Liza worship gone wild. Fantastic. Scorsese was smart. He gave the flick to his leading lady, and she delivered.
Posted: 8/25/22 at 8:45pm
JSquared2 said: "Right, because as everybody knows, the best way to improve on a bad film is to make it LONGER!"
As others mentioned above, the reason it was bad and incoherent was the chop job they did to it. Scorsese was wise to restore the cut material and thus the film is now considered a classic. There was more of a linear story being told with Scorsese’s longer version. Same thing with 1954’s A STAR IS BORN when they restored cut numbers and scenes decades later after they chopped up the film during its original run as Warner Bros. felt the longer version was too long.
Posted: 8/26/22 at 10:34am
BrodyFosse123 said: "JSquared2 said: "Right, because as everybody knows, the best way to improve on a bad film is to make it LONGER!"
As others mentioned above, the reason it was bad and incoherent was the chop job they did to it. Scorsese was wise to restore the cut material and thus the film is now considered a classic. There was more of a linear story being told with Scorsese’s longer version. Same thing with 1954’s A STAR IS BORN when they restored cut numbers and scenes decades later after they chopped up the film during its original run as Warner Bros. felt the longer version was too long.
I have to question your comment that it is now considered a classic. In what parallel universe is it considered a classic?
Posted: 8/26/22 at 2:34pm
CATSNYrevival said: "Did Kander and Ebb write a full score for a stage adaptation before Fred Ebb passed and it just wasn't produced, or is this mostly a new score from Kander and Miranda?"
i could have sworn they said that skin of our teeth adaptation was the last actual kander & ebb score. unless they’re gonna do a whole bunch of the standards from the film i would imagine Miranda’a “couple lyrics” tweet would have to vastly underplay his contributions since there’s only i think 4 (or maybe 5?) songs in the movie by K&E
Posted: 8/26/22 at 3:39pm
Has Skin of Our Teeth been performed anywhere?
So this is a book show and not just a revue?
Posted: 8/26/22 at 4:06pm
Posted: 8/27/22 at 12:01pm
Very curious to see how this plays out. I love the way the film juxtaposes big-budget staginess with the kind of bitter, violent, and brutal depiction of abuse seen in films like Raging Bull/Taxi Driver (De Niro's charcter in NYNY is basically just Travis Bickle with a saxophone) or various Cassavetes works, and I could see this being taken even further onstage in the typical Kander & Ebb fashion. My only concern is that they pull away from that and make it a more palatable workplace-affair drama instead of the toxic hallucinatory nightmare that the film aimed for.
Posted: 8/27/22 at 1:21pm
KevinKlawitter said: "I haven't seen any cut of New York, New York yet, but Scorsese typically knows what he's doing when it comes to editing."
Scorsese was, by his own admission, heavily addicted to cocaine and in a deep depression during the making of the film (which was only made worse by the poor reception). The movie also has 4 credited editors, and none of them are Thelma Schoonmaker, who would become his constant collaborator and secret sauce starting with RAGING BULL.
I was intending to rewatch last night but it's currently only available on physical media, not streaming.
Posted: 8/27/22 at 1:42pm
ErmengardeStopSniveling said: "I too am very curious about the score. I’m sort of expecting it will be a combo of the 4 K&E songs from the movie, a few other songs written by K&E (either trunk songs or repurposed from other, less famous shows), and a few written by Lin. I hope it will all sound coherent and move the story.
Certainly can’t be worse than something like Bullets Over Broadway."
Re ‘story’, after reading that the key roles from the movie are not even in the show, and that it is going to cover a lot of aspects of NYC (my interpretation of what I read), I am guessing that it is going to be either more vignette based (perhaps with some central story), a la Follies, or maybe a series of short stories, a la the ‘Paris, Berlin (et al), I Love You’ movies. With that team, I certainly expect the objective to be compelling.
Posted: 8/27/22 at 4:24pm
As someone who watched it very recently, I liked it. The story is essentially an A Star Is Born riff except nobody dies and they both start off nobodies. Much like I tend to feel about every version of A Star Is Born, the performances are better than the actual film. De Niro and Liza have great chemistry, which helps the film in places where even the slightest bit of indifference from either actor would make the whole thing fall completely flat.
Also, the Happy Endings sequence is basically a Liza version of Born In A Trunk, and I wish she had performed it live more often. Really what stood out to me, beyond my feeling that Liza and De Niro should've been paired together more, was that it felt like the closest Liza ever came to purposefully placing herself in the path of Judy comparisons. Liza as Sally is probably my favorite Best Actress winning performance of all time. The film drove home for me everything I knew she was capable of as a film personality.
Posted: 8/27/22 at 4:41pm
Don't agree restoring cuts helps the movie. I'm in favor of the restoration because a movie should reflect the director's vision, not the studio's, but Happy Endings isn't a great number, and it threatens to steal focus from the "New York, New York" finale.
The movie just doesn't work. Juxtaposing improvisation and modern dramatic storytelling with an Old Hollywood, soundstage style look is just a mashup that doesn't work. And the characters are innately dislikable (and perpetually unhappy together). Scorsese was a friend of a friend. He told her he wanted to make a "sick" musical. I guess he succeeded, but the results don't work for me.
Posted: 8/30/22 at 12:09am
For me, they could have restored EVERYTHING AVAILABLE to "New York, New York."
I could not stop watching it and I wept when I had to leave the theatre. I loved it and still do.
The movie's sheer adoration of MUSIC is overwhelming.
Liza is astounding. She really is incredible in this picture. DeNiro is excellent.
There's a reason this flick has its cult, and why a B'way version is forthcoming. Fred Ebb is beaming.
I will ALWAYS champion this movie. It is great. Sour apples can just leave the room.
Updated On: 8/30/22 at 12:09 AM
Posted: 8/30/22 at 8:44am
SouthernCakes said: "Has Skin of Our Teeth been performed anywhere?
So this is a book show and not just a revue?"
They lost the rights. Or rather, the rights were pulled. Sadly, I've heard it's a fantastic score.
And NEW YORK NEW YORK is indeed the films few songs, trunk songs and a handful of new ones.
The reading prior to the pandemic was indeed far less gritty than the film. This is adapted from a version that was go in The Theatre in Madison Square Garden years back. That was going to be shorter, fluffier, and a tourist, "Welcome to New York"-style piece. It didn't happen and they returned to it, determined to make a K&E trunk song while they still have Kander around. That version was more fleshed out again but no, not the same 70s-grit style scenes. But then again, there's a new bookwriter on the team...So, who knows now.
Posted: 8/30/22 at 9:58am
I wouldn't mind if it turned out to be more of a revue using other Kander & Ebb songs. I hope they could fit "How Lucky Can You Get" from Funny Lady in.
I think they will need a star performer though to sell this. As long as it has a truly great leading lady, backed by fantastic chorus it should do well. Like MJ.
Posted: 9/1/22 at 12:58am
Cast a great middle-aged Bway diva, who's never been a lead in a Bway musical, as the older, wiser Francine Evans. Put her above the title. (Talk about endless possibilities.)
You will have a big fat Broadway hit. Make sure Liza attends Opening Night.
Posted: 9/1/22 at 5:46am
shocktheatre said: "Cast a great middle-aged Bway diva, who's never been a lead in a Bway musical, as the older, wiser Francine Evans. Put her above the title. (Talk about endless possibilities.)
You will have a big fat Broadway hit. Make sure Liza attends Opening Night."
That’s a thought, only problem is that the characters from the film are not in this new stage adaptation.
