Six vs. A Strange Loop: The Tightest Tony Race of 2022?- Page 3

[Rentaholic2]

Posted: 5/6/22 at 11:02pm

I think A Strange Loop will probably win, but those who are saying it's "in the bag" forget how much Tony voters hate being told what to do.  I think back to Kinky Boots beating Matilda or Doyle's Sweeney Todd losing to The Pajama Game.  Those might not be the most recent examples, but they illustrate the point that Tony voters have no qualms about saying "no thanks" to the "smart" or "ground-breaking" show when they simply enjoyed something else more.  Don't underestimate how many of them will find A Strange Loop to be uncomfortably crass and a bit self-indulgent, even if critics hail it as revolutionary. 

[blaxx]

Posted: 5/6/22 at 11:31pm

JBroadway said: "blaxx said: "Y'all put way too much weight on the Tonys. The awards are biased recognition, they're not an absolute truth.

It's just a dozen random professionals casting a vote, not the judgment from the Theater God.

The decision will only be properly assessed with time."



I agree with you to an extent. Despite my many posts participating in the Tony threads, I have found myself increasingly frustrated at the nature of the Tonys in general, particularly how narrow the scope of eligibility is. I can't help but feel like the prestige of the Tony Award is one of the greatest smoke-and-mirrors tricks in showbiz.

But regardless of how they earned their prestige, they have it, and it can create lasting ripple-effects. Not as much as it used to, maybe, and not as much as some other awards shows. But the effects can still be tangible. Mainly, a Best Musical win (which this particular thread is mostly about) still has the power to make or break a show financially. We've also seen it impact what kinds of projects get written and produced afterward (I realize this 2nd point is more is less tangible, and more subjective and circumstantial, but I still think it matters).

A win for A Strange Loop could be highly beneficial in both regards: (a) the show is struggling at the box office, and this could very well be the difference between success and failure for them, and (b) the show, right now is unique in many ways. It would be great if, in 5-10 years, it wasn't so unique.

"

I only agree that a Best Musical win guarantees recoupment. Only one musical in 22 years has not recouped.

Past that, no other win or category means much for profits. So, all the producers and investors who wait for the Tonys to turn their fate around are in the wishful thinking / delusional boat. Only one production will reap the benefits of the awards. 

Total smoke and mirrors, you are absolutely right. 

[EDSOSLO858]

Posted: 5/7/22 at 12:23am

SIX will recoup with or without the Best Musical Tony, that I am sure of.

However, A Strange Loop NEEDS to win top honors in order to at least have a chance at recouping in the future. 

[VintageSnarker]

Posted: 5/7/22 at 2:51am

bdn223 said: "Best Book is between A Strange Loop and Girl from the North Country."

I continued to be baffled by the championing of Girl from the North Country

[akhoya87]

Posted: 5/7/22 at 9:46am

People don't give Six enough credit for using the concert format as a vehicle for storytelling.  It is easy to brush Six off as bubble-gum drivel, but there is a clever story there.  I'm not saying the book is better than ASL - certainly not.  But I would not rule Six out of the Best Musical horse-race.  (And yes, I've seen both.)

That said -- and I know it's dangerous to draw parallels to the Oliviers for the Tony Awards -- Six was shut out of the Oliviers, having lost to CFA.  The Broadway production is certainly of a higher caliber than the Arts Theatre production (which I also saw), but it does make me wonder whether voters will consider Six to be "serious" enough to be worthy of a vote.

[Mr. Wormwood]

Posted: 5/7/22 at 11:59am

I think A Strange Loop will win Best Musical but I don't think it's a sure thing.

I think one other factor besides the reasons mentioned is Six feels so old at this point, it feels like it was part of last season with Moulin Rouge, Jagged Little Pill, etc. Same for Girl from the North Country. Being in previews prior to the shutdown makes it feel like voting for a show that's more than two years old.

[OffOnBwayHi]

Posted: 5/7/22 at 12:02pm

VintageSnarker said: "bdn223 said: "Best Book is betweenA Strange Loop andGirl from the North Country."

I continued to be baffled by the championing ofGirl from the North Country"

The show is magickal!

[rattleNwoolypenguin]

Posted: 5/7/22 at 12:08pm

I agree Strange Loop should win for all the reasons above.

but Six is one of those impeccable lightning in a bottle Broadway shows. It does everything it needs to do with aplomb and wit. And every single song is equal parts catchy, poppy, informative and when it calls for it funny. And it’s pointed. 

Put Strange Loop in a year with Mean Girls type shows it would be no question, but that and Six are really wonderful fresh contributions to musical theatre. We shall see how this shakes out

[rattleNwoolypenguin]

Posted: 5/7/22 at 12:11pm

Unrelated I can’t imagine how bizarre of a run Passion was for all involved

you have this strong show

it gets unfortunate unintended laughs

it wins best musical Tony 

it closes 

what an emotional rollercoaster

[Broadway61004]

Posted: 5/7/22 at 12:14pm

VintageSnarker said: "bdn223 said: "Best Book is betweenA Strange Loop andGirl from the North Country."

I continued to be baffled by the championing ofGirl from the North Country"

I'm a little surprised by it too, but there is a ton of love for that show among the Tony voters and I wouldn't in any way be stunned if it ends up taking Best Musical.  I still think the race is between Six and Strange Loop, but if voters oppose Six by calling it a 75-minute concert and find Strange Loop too avant-garde and small, I could easily see them going with the one they enjoyed the most, which appears to be North Country.

Regarding the pressure to award Strange Loop because it's a story dealing with the black, queer experience and voters not wanting to look insensitive by not rewarding it, I think we're majorly overestimating how much Tony voters care about that.  To be clear, I'm not in any way saying that should or will hold the show back and if they feel it's the best show, they'll absolutely vote for it.  But while there is certainly a ton of pressure on the industry to advance and be more inclusive and representative, maybe I'm just cynical, but I'm not all all convinced that the Tony voters themselves really care too much.  If they did, for instance, Slave Play would have taken home at least one award last year regardless of how they felt about the show.

So if the majority of voters decide they enjoy Strange Loop the most and think it's the best show, it will absolutely win.  But I really don't think they're going to vote for it just because they're afraid of how they'll look if they don't.

[Jordan Catalano]

Posted: 5/7/22 at 12:22pm

“…but there is a ton of love for that show among the Tony voters and I wouldn't in any way be stunned if it ends up taking Best Musical.”

Nothing would make me happier than that upset. But I can’t imagine any multiverse timeline where that happens this year. 

[Hairspray0901]

Posted: 5/7/22 at 12:26pm

Just because A Strange Loop “needs” the Tony to survive and Six doesn’t, it doesn’t make it more qualified to win Best Musical. If that were the case, it would be between “Mr. Saturday Night” and “Paradise Square”, both shows struggling at the box office. 

I saw both shows and do believe ASL will win because it’s the kind of show Tony voters usually go for (see, all the past examples in this thread). However, something no one has mentioned yet is Six is all about feminism which is now front and center with Roe V. Wade. I think both shows - one about diversity and inclusion, one about feminism, stand an equal chance at Best Musical. 

[BdwyFan]

Posted: 5/7/22 at 12:34pm

There will be lots of votes for North Country.  I believe the split votes will give SIX the edge.  Plus SIX suffered during the pandemic and I believe it will get rewarded for that.  Plus it’s a fun show!  Just like Moulin!  

[bwayphreak234]

Posted: 5/7/22 at 1:07pm

BdwyFan said: "There will be lots of votes for North Country. I believe the split votes will give SIX the edge. Plus SIX suffered during the pandemic and I believe it will get rewarded for that. Plus it’s a fun show! Just like Moulin!"

SIX suffered no less or more than any other show during the pandemic... In fact, I would argue that they had an easier go of it in many ways.

[bdn223]

Posted: 5/7/22 at 1:07pm

Broadway61004 said: "Regarding the pressure to award Strange Loop because it's a story dealing with the black, queer experience and voters not wanting to look insensitive by not rewarding it, I think we're majorly overestimating how much Tony voters care about that. To be clear, I'm not in any way saying that should or will hold the show back and if they feel it's the best show, they'll absolutely vote for it. But while there is certainly a ton of pressure on the industry to advance and be more inclusive and representative, maybe I'm just cynical, but I'm not all all convinced that the Tony voters themselves really care too much. If they did, for instance, Slave Play would have taken home at least one award last year regardless of how they felt about the show."

Regarding Slave Play, one of the main factors leading to its upset was Jeremy O. Harris himself. For the entire 18 month shutdown, Harris was very cocky and pissed off a lot of the “old guard” of industry with his attitude. Add to that his refusal to respond to the plays depiction of black women. The irony being the old guard was likely always voting for The Inheritance, a more traditional choice for Best Play, so it was his behavior pissing off one too many more progressive Tony Voters that tipped the scales. The lesson to learn from Slave Play, Matilda, and the 2011 revival of Follies losses is for all involved in front runners for best production awards is to be humble until the Award is announced and in your hands. While A Strange Loop is the clear front runner, as long as producers and creatives keep their tails between their legs, which they are, they should have a very good night  on June 12th.

[pagereynolds]

Posted: 5/7/22 at 1:25pm

I love both shows. And fascinating that they came very close to opening 2 years apart.

[pagereynolds]

Posted: 5/7/22 at 1:27pm

bdn223 said: "Broadway61004 said: "Regarding the pressure to award Strange Loop because it's a story dealing with the black, queer experience and voters not wanting to look insensitive by not rewarding it, I think we're majorly overestimating how much Tony voters care about that. To be clear, I'm not in any way saying that should or will hold the show back and if they feel it's the best show, they'll absolutely vote for it. But while there is certainly a ton of pressure on the industry to advance and be more inclusive and representative, maybe I'm just cynical, but I'm not all all convinced that the Tony voters themselves really care too much. If they did, for instance, Slave Play would have taken home at least one award last year regardless of how they felt about the show."

Wait, what does Matilda have anything to do with this?

Regarding Slave Play, one of the main factors leading to its upset wasJeremy O. Harris himself. For the entire 18 month shutdown, Harris was very cocky and pissed off a lot of the “old guard” of industry with his attitude. Add to that his refusal to respond to the plays depiction of black women. The irony being the old guard was likely always voting for The Inheritance, a more traditional choice for Best Play, so it was his behavior pissing off one too many more progressive Tony Voters that tipped the scales. The lesson to learn from Slave Play, Matilda, and the 2011 revival of Follies losses is for all involved in front runners for best production awards is to be humble until the Award is announced and in your hands. While A Strange Loop is the clear front runner, as long as producers and creatives keep their tails between their legs, which they are, they should have a very good night on June 12th."

 

[RememberTheDay]

Posted: 5/7/22 at 3:20pm

Does anyone think any of the performers from SIX will be singled out for Tony nods/wins? I can definitely see a nom for Brittney Mack!

[willep]

Posted: 5/7/22 at 5:34pm

I enjoyed Six, but just saw A Strange Loop and that should definitely be the winner this year.

[jkcohen626]

Posted: 5/7/22 at 8:08pm

RememberTheDay said: "Does anyone think any of the performers from SIX will be singled out for Tony nods/wins? I can definitely see a nom for Brittney Mack!"

If they could be featured, probably. If they could be jointly nominated, definitely. Individually as leading actresses? Very little chance. 

[quizking101]

Posted: 5/7/22 at 10:16pm

I won the lottery for SIX tonight and was hoping that maybe I was just cranky the first time around and that a second chance was merited.

NOOOOOPE. I’m sorry, but in no universe would I consider this Best Musical material. The only thing Tonys I would consider for it would be Score (the music is boppy, I can’t deny that) and an acting award for Brittney Mack (which will definitely not happen).

I’ve gotten blowback before from people saying that “not every musical has to be important or meaningful”, and I agree - PARADISE SQUARE has proven that overemphasis on trying to be IMPORTANT(!) is super detrimental. But it’s just too twee and slight for me to think that this is the best Broadway has to offer. It has legs and a long life because of its accessibility, so it will be fine even if it doesn’t win the big trophy.

I just truly think that, given the past few years where there have been some middling musicals up for the award, the wholly original package of A STRANGE LOOP or the meaningful and heartfelt storytelling that weaves Dylan’s songs in GIRL FROM THE NORTH COUNTRY are far more deserving.

[ggersten]

Posted: 5/7/22 at 11:01pm

blaxx said: "I only agree that a Best Musical win guarantees recoupment. Only one musical in 22 years has not recouped."  

That would be Thoroughly Modern Millie?

 

[KathyNYC2]

Posted: 5/9/22 at 1:25pm

MayAudraBlessYou2 said: "@Kathy Well, its possible SIX wins Lighting, but not the most likely outcome I think. Many recent musicals have had "concert style" lighting. And they have all lost the Tony, or not even been nominated in the lighting category. I too think the lighting design is superb and a standout. But just looking at the tastes of Tony voters based on recent winners, this design style puts SIX at a disadvantage in this category I think"

Well at least they were nominated. I don't disagree with your assessment but I can still hope. I get there is possibly some bias against concert style lighting..but in my opinion, this goes above and beyond, The lighting is almost another character - pretty much choreographed to the music's individual songs. However I have learned never to expect any wins or losses....it's an award show. Anything can happen. As someone pointed out elsewhere..just look at the Kentucky Derby. A winner with an 80-1 shot of winning.

[ElephantLoveMedley]

Posted: 6/7/22 at 11:31am

Bumping this thread because I recently read this in The Wrap:

"Regarding the big prize, “A Strange Loop” has other problems with Tony voters. Few plays go on the road, so the Tony Awards’ snub of “Slave Play” for “The Inheritance,” which won last year, didn’t make any difference to producers in Middle America. Musicals are another story. Among the nominated musicals in 2022, the one most likely to tour the heartland is a musical about abused British royalty. (No, “Diana” is not nominated.) Out of the 650 Tony voters, the biggest block are out-of-town presenters who need the imprimatur “Tony-winning best musical” to market their subscription series. They will pick the half-dozen Spice Girls of “Six,” dramatizing the wives of Henry VIII, over a show about “a fat, Black, queer body.”"

Just curious if anyone's thoughts have changed over the last month. I really do think Six still has a strong chance at winning on Sunday. Tony voters are not the same as nominators. 

[YvanEhtNioj]

Posted: 6/7/22 at 11:40am

In terms of bias, if it's known that they typically just vote for the show that will tour, how is that fair? Has this ever been reevaluated by the ATW? I'm not just saying that because I love A Strange Loop, but in general that just seems really ****ty. 

From a public perception, I think most people are rooting for A Strange Loop, but I feel like people are aware the power Six has had over the last few years. As someone who loved Six as well..I'm kinda tired of it.