Karen Olivo not returning to MOULIN ROUGE!- Page 8

[HogansHero]

Posted: 4/19/21 at 12:14pm

DAME said: "HogansHero said: "

well with Dame you get a combo-pak, silly and obnoxious for the same low price. btw fwiw "silly" is the polite substitute word for the one that is most apt."

Wow. Ok. Hate and bullying alive and present on BWW. You have a nice day."

No hate even possible in this context. What am I supposed to hate? Your avatar? And re bullying, you are the one who said you would rather torment me that educate yourself. For the record I wasn't bullied, but that's as close as it comes in this thread. Accusing someone of bullying for calling out willful ignorance is lame btw. 

Posted: 4/19/21 at 1:29pm

HogansHero said: "No hate even possible in this context. What am I supposed to hate? Your avatar? And re bullying, you are the one who said you would rather torment me that educate yourself. For the record I wasn't bullied, but that's as close as it comes in this thread. Accusing someone of bullying for calling out willful ignorance is lame btw."

This exchange between you two is 100% irrelevant to anything.

Going back to the thread topic, I'm getting the sense that since Karen Olivo now has nothing but time, that her "advocacy" is going to continue, endlessly, no matter what changes are made. Rudin stepped back, but that changed absolutely nothing as far as I can tell.

A lot of people have pointed out that she was not particularly specific in her demands and it now feels like that was by design. If she had demands, and they were met, then her role as an advocate would be over. Without demands this can just be what she does, her new job, on an ongoing basis. It is to her benefit for Broadway to always be, in some sense, the bad guy.

I appreciate advocacy to a certain degree, but I like Broadway and I don't love that it seems like there is going to be an on-going, full-out assault on the institution, forever. Maybe it's because I'm not an insider, but at least in the last 10-20 years, it has always felt like one of the more inclusive mediums out there in terms of what ends up on stage. While the Oscars were being So White, Audra was winning her sixth Tony.

Anyway, I'm curious where this goes. Today she was promoting the March on Broadway, which I note does have "demands" and Demand #1 is "Put Scott Rudin on the AEA Do Not Work List". I previously compared this situation to McCarthyism so I appreciate that they already made the jump to putting people on blacklists.

Updated On: 4/19/21 at 01:29 PM

[SmokeyLady]

Posted: 4/19/21 at 1:44pm

HogansHero said: "DAME said: "HogansHero said: "

well with Dame you get a combo-pak, silly and obnoxious for the same low price. btw fwiw "silly" is the polite substitute word for the one that is most apt."

Wow. Ok. Hate and bullying alive and present on BWW. You have a nice day."

No hate even possible in this context. What am I supposed to hate? Your avatar? And re bullying, you are the one who said you would rather torment me that educate yourself. For the record I wasn't bullied, but that's as close as it comes in this thread. Accusing someone of bullying for calling out willful ignorance is lame btw."

HH,  you are very condescending and you do read like a bully.

[alovingfan]

Posted: 4/19/21 at 3:36pm

ctorres23 said: "HogansHero said: "No hate even possible in this context. What am I supposed to hate? Your avatar? And re bullying, you are the one who said you would rather torment me that educate yourself. For the record I wasn't bullied, but that's as close as it comes in this thread. Accusing someone of bullying for calling out willful ignorance is lame btw."

This exchange between you two is 100% irrelevant to anything.

Going back to the thread topic, I'm getting the sense that since Karen Olivo now has nothing but time, that her "advocacy" is going to continue, endlessly, no matter what changes are made. Rudin stepped back, but that changed absolutely nothing as far as I can tell.

A lot of people have pointed out that she was not particularly specific in her demands and it now feels like that was by design. If she had demands, and they were met, then her role as an advocate would be over. Without demands this can just be what she does, her new job, on an ongoing basis. It is to her benefit for Broadway to always be, in some sense, the bad guy.

I appreciate advocacy to a certain degree, but I like Broadway and I don't love that it seems like there is going to be an on-going, full-out assault on the institution, forever. Maybe it's because I'm not an insider, but at least in the last 10-20 years, it has always felt like one of the more inclusive mediums out there in terms of what ends up on stage. While the Oscars were being So White, Audra was winning her sixth Tony.

Anyway, I'm curious where this goes. Today she was promoting the March on Broadway, which I note does have "demands" and Demand #1 is "Put Scott Rudin on the AEA Do Not Work List". I previously compared this situation to McCarthyism so I appreciate that they already made the jump to putting people on blacklists."

Regarding Karen my thoughts on it are similar to yours.  Something about her motive just does not hit the mark with me.  Not sure yet why.    As a fan I am disappointed since I originally had tickets to see her in it in May.  Of course the pandemic messed things up.  But I would have hoped she would have gone back to it for a little bit to satisfy those of us who went thru hoops to try to see her in the show.  But that is my own  small issue.   And for what it is worth;  I love DAME on this board.   Lets stop playing cops with each other here.  Room for all. 

[SmoothLover]

Posted: 4/19/21 at 7:03pm

Who is this Rob Roth person?

[LizzieCurry]

Posted: 4/19/21 at 7:30pm

Robert Jess Roth.

[Stage Door Sally]

Posted: 9/28/21 at 11:55am

Latest update. Karen talks to the LA Times. https://www.latimes.com/entertainment-arts/story/2021-09-24/karen-olivo-left-broadway?fbclid=IwAR1Gvr9854MPpereKqbgyy3yAhgmmf_xbhvE0U1RT5qymB-kwBxIoRqVd0c

[bdn223]

Posted: 9/28/21 at 12:29pm

This interview literally reads as a formal #%$@ You to Broadway, but also Karen does not come out of it unscathed. I can't imagine producers, directors, writers or anyone in the entertainment industry wanting to take a chance of hiring her, despite her immense talent after reading this. In truth if she wants to change things she should fight to be on the other side of the table alla Miranda, as there is only so much you can do from the outside looking in. 

 

Back to why she left Moulin Rouge though....Karen's admission that she ultimately left Moulin Rouge because she wanted a raise and more rehearsal time, is ummm surprising to say the least. 

I am not saying she does not have a right to know her own worth, but when the she implied and let the press run with she resigned in protest to the industry's silence on Rudin...it does not sit right with me. Add to that the producers of Moulin Rouge were more than supportive and gracious  in allowing her to craft this narrative, only for it to ultimately be a contract dispute.

On not having enough time to prepare, she announced she was leaving 5 months before Moulin Rouge would resume performances, and 4 months before it would go back into rehearsals. I know its a hard show, but how much more time would she of liked to prepare? Most replacements are given less than 1 month between first being hired and their first performance, and she was being given 5. 

I cannot dispute her wanting a pay raise, but also I once again feel this is a kick in the guts to all of those who held her up on a pedestal after saying she was resigning to protest the industries silence on Rudin. 

Updated On: 9/28/21 at 12:29 PM

[soulmistin]

Posted: 9/28/21 at 12:40pm

bdn223 said: "This interview literally reads as a formal #%$@ You to Broadway, but also Karen does not come out of it unscathed. I can't imagine producers, directors, writers or anyone in the entertainment industry wanting to take a chance of hiring her, despite her immense talent after reading this. In truth if she wants to change things she should fight to be on the other side of the table alla Miranda, as there is only so much you can do from the outside looking in.



Back to why she left Moulin Rouge though....Karen's admission that she ultimately left Moulin Rouge because she wanted a raise and more rehearsal time, is ummm surprising to say the least.

I am not saying she does not have a right to know her own worth, but when the she implied and let the press run with she resigned in protest to the industry's silence on Rudin...it does not sit right with me. Add to that the producers of Moulin Rouge were more than supportive and gracious in allowing her to craft this narrative, only for it to ultimately be a contract dispute.

On the first of nothavingenough time to prepare, she announced she was leaving5 months before Moulin Rouge would resume performances, and 4 months before it would go back into rehearsals. I know its a hard show, but how much more time would she of liked to prepare? Most replacements are given less than 1month between first being hired and their first performance, and she was being given 5.

I cannot dispute her wanting a pay raise, but also I once again feel this is a kick in the guts to all of those who held her up on a pedestal after saying she was resigning to protest the industries silence on Rudin."

Yes, exactly. I'm happy that she has modified her life in a way that makes her happy, but all these claims just sort of feel like a slap in the face. The reasons she's given for leaving seem more like personal grievances than systematic issues. 

[BrodyFosse123]

Posted: 9/28/21 at 12:49pm

Yes, exactly. I'm happy that she has modified her life in a way that makes her happy, but all these claims just sort of feel like a slap in the face. The reasons she's given for leaving seem more like personal grievances than systematic issues.

Happy?  In the article she’s quite bitter and suffering a huge case of FOMO seeing all her former cast mates return to the show and performing.  Everyone resumed where they left off pre-COVID and she feels left out of the party, which is by her own doing.  No one else is at fault.  She brought this on to herself.  

[RippedMan]

Posted: 9/28/21 at 12:58pm

Does kind of feel ****ty though. Like she rallied for change. And then to see all your former costars thriving and nothing changing.... that sucks

[Sutton Ross]

Posted: 9/28/21 at 12:58pm

She didn't want to come back because they didn't give her like 6 months to rehearse and the money wasn't right?

Cool. Cool, cool, cool, cool.

Glad we got the actual reason. Everyone has moved on and the show looks great. 

Thank u, next. 

[bdn223]

Posted: 9/28/21 at 1:39pm

RippedMan said: "Does kind of feel ****ty though. Like she rallied for change. And then to see all your former costars thriving and nothing changing.... that sucks"

Because she didn't actually rally for change, her resignation was performative. It was simply meant to spark conversation, and not actually bring about change. She clearly knows how to bring about change, as she spearheaded collective negotiations for the cast of Murder Ballad. 

When Moulin Rouge producers reached out with the show's reopening timeline and contract, she was offended, which is her right. Then instead of resigning and simply stating that Moulin Rouge's producers are undervaluing her talent and contributions to the production, and the underlying systematic sexism in those conversations, she said it was because of the industries silence on a Rudin. The fact of the matter is if she actually wanted to bring about change instead of immediately resigning in protest, she would of publicly threated to leave the production unless things changed, similar to Sutton Foster threatening to leave The Music Man is Rudin was not removed. She didn't want to change things though, she was simply done with the Broadway machine, and wanted to shout it from the rooftops, which is her right. The fact that Sutton Foster has been vilified by the twitter and theatertok communities, while Olivo has been put on a pedestal is the definition of IRONY. This does not even bring up the fact that Olivio's critiques of the sexism and sizeism of the producers and creators of Moulin Rouge's and the costumes are spot on, and in my opinion just as bad as if not worse than Jagged Little Pill's gaslighting changing Jo from non-binary to just a butch lesbian. 

She definitely believes in the message she implied her resignation was initially about, but that was simply a contributing factor and not the underlying cause. She admits she was initially outraged by the abuse allegations as a survivor herself, but it was the contract that Moulin Rouge's producers sent her around the same period with the same salary and only 6 weeks of formal rehearsal that were the straw that broke the camel's back.

She simply doesn't want to be a part of the Broadway machine anymore, and that is her right. If anything this actually is the real world example of accurate Dear Evan Hansen's basic plot of the social media snowball effect actually is...

[theaterfan862]

Posted: 9/28/21 at 1:42pm

Exactly Sutton!

Her original statement for leaving was nonsensical and erratic! This is because it was not the real reason! She is very talented and there is no denying that, but she is certainly not suited for this industry then. No one ever said that a life in the theatre is a breeze, hence why not everyone is in it! There is nothing wrong with asking for more money and knowing your limits, but there is no need to crap all over the entire industry and moreso the people she claims to love. She made a personal choice and is mad/upset because others did not leave the production in solidarity. Karen decided to retire a few years back stating that she gave more than she received and if that is the way she feels she should have left not returned.  Much love and respect to those who stay and try to change the system from within! 

[themadmarchhare]

Posted: 9/28/21 at 4:40pm

I think this kind of sums up what rubbed me up the wrong way about the whole Olivo situation.

When they left MR they framed it that they were choosing their morals over their ‘pocket book’, kind of implying that performers who stuck with their shows (or couldn’t afford to leave) were choosing profit over positive change. And that isn’t fair to the many who either can’t afford to do that, or want to make positive change without having to give up on their career or dreams. (And note, many positive steps have been made from people within the industry. There’s still a long way to go of course but that change can’t happen by burning your bridges and leaving). That being said, the Rudin situation was important to address and the costume situation sounds like a major issue that people should be talking about more.

Obviously it’s good for her that she left because it wasn’t making her happy anymore. It’s good to get out of situations like that for personal reasons. But I didn’t like that she made it seem like quitting was a moral choice everyone should make rather than a highly personal one.

[Bettyboy72]

Posted: 9/29/21 at 1:11am

It’s also her privilege that allows her to leave and not worry about her pocketbook. She’s doesn’t seem to own that. Many folks can’t afford to scoff at the first work they are being offered in almost two years. Instead she passive aggressively guilts them. That’s very classist and not trauma informed.

She’s a very confusing person. Her interviews and statements are confounding. I’m unsure how she would champion anything when she’s so inarticulate. I really can’t listen to her anymore.

She goes back and forth so much, contradicts herself and is really self congratulatory.

I hope she does take care of herself, goes away and finds her peace. You can be much more effective when you are working on a system. She effectively cut off her access to the conversation.

I wish her all the best.

[BroadwayGirl107]

Posted: 9/29/21 at 7:52am

RippedMan said: "Does kind of feel ****ty though. Like she rallied for change. And then to see all your former costars thriving and nothing changing.... that sucks"

 

sure, it sucks because she could have had more of an effective change by staying with things and hauling her visibility and power to pressure for change. Instead she peaced out.

 

I actually think a lot of what she has to say in the article is great and on point. But I think if she really wanted change, she wouldn’t just…walk away. 

 

[East Village]

Posted: 9/29/21 at 9:42am

Count me as a devoted Olivo fan, but I completely understand her. We all know the folks who are making the decisions behind these big mega-musicals have gotten so far away from the type of choices that artists and authors would make — that even the actors can’t perform them without causing injury. It’s not suppose to be a circus

[GiantsInTheSky2]

Posted: 9/29/21 at 9:44am

Not to be devil’s advocate, but…

Can’t multiple things be true at the same time? Why does it have to be only reason #1 or only reason #2.

I think it’s very valid for them to be not only disgusted by the industry’s lack of response with Rudin, the costume situation, the pay, and an inadequate amount of rehearsal time (they weren’t on hiatus for a few weeks, it was a year and a half of not doing their jobs, they should provide more rehearsal time). I don’t think multiple/different reasons makes them contradictory or confusing, and it actually lines up with what they said - their morals vs their pocketbook.

They could have easily shut up and just gone along with the machine, but has anyone ever actually considered that these performers, despite getting to live their/our dreams, aren’t always fulfilled or happy with how the machine is set uo? Could things be different for the better?

[fashionguru_23]

Posted: 9/29/21 at 9:53am

The part that really got me was when asked if she would return to the stage, she said that if she "vetted" the production and those attached to it, and whatnot she might, because "I can’t say that I won’t work in New York or in commercial theater ever again" is a little too "if I get what I want/my way" then sure. 

Could it be bitterness that I'm like, I and many others would kill for a Broadway/theatre career that she has had so far? Yes. Do I think she could make good staying and fighting? Yes. Have I lived her experience? No. How does walking away make a fight? With the place every organization was/is at and they are looking to change views, or are forced into changing views in a "if you're not with us, your against us" situation why not lead the charge?

[bwayphreak234]

Posted: 9/29/21 at 9:54am

Here's my thing... They don't want to be in the industry. Totally fine. Do what's best for you. However, don't try to bring down the industry and those that chose to return. And as for the same pay and six weeks of rehearsal... what else were they expecting? I'm utterly confused by that statement and why they think they're entitled to something more...

[Bettyboy72]

Posted: 9/29/21 at 10:19am

bwayphreak234 said: "Here's my thing... They don't want to be in the industry. Totally fine. Do what's best for you. However, don't try to bring down the industry and those that chose to return. And as for the same pay and six weeks of rehearsal... what else were they expecting? I'm utterly confused by that statement and why they think they're entitled to something more..."

Her industry is no different than others. Many of us not in entertainment are dealing with raises on hold, reduced salary temporarily, hiring freezes, per diems and travel money cut and administrators not entertaining any conversations about salary or changes to work functions. Many people have been asked to make due, do more for less or do with less resources. If you are in a position to quit, then great for you. Don't act holier than thou over people who want to eat and stay housed. Don't make people who need to work feel like they are lying down with dogs. They may be a part of broken system, but at least they have an opportunity to affect more than someone who "'peaces out." 

 

[bwayphreak234]

Posted: 9/29/21 at 10:37am

Bettyboy72 said: "bwayphreak234 said: "Here's my thing... They don't want to be in the industry. Totally fine. Do what's best for you. However, don't try to bring down the industry and those that chose to return. And as for the same pay and six weeks of rehearsal... what else were they expecting? I'm utterly confused by that statement and why they think they're entitled to something more..."

Her industry is no different than others. Many of us not in entertainment are dealing with raises on hold, reduced salary temporarily, hiring freezes, per diems and travel money cut and administrators not entertaining any conversations about salary or changes to work functions. Many people have been asked to make due, do more for less or dowith less resources. If you are in a position to quit, then great for you. Don't act holier than thou over people who want to eat and stay housed. Don't make people who need to work feel like they are lying down with dogs. They may be a part of broken system, but at least they have an opportunity to affect more than someone who "'peaces out."

Exactly!

[SouthernCakes]

Posted: 9/29/21 at 11:00am

6 weeks is actually a lot of time. It’s not putting the show on its feet from scratch. It’s 10-5 every day doing a 2 1/2 hour musical. Plenty of time.

[WestEndGal]

Posted: 9/29/21 at 11:12am

There’s so much hypocrisy in this thread! Example - Antonio Cipriani gets praised for leaving Jagged, even though the timing of it AFTER the issues have been out in the open for months seems completely performative, and yet Karen Olivo is getting beat on for actually taking a genuine moral stand by leaving Moulin Rouge right at the beginning of the Broadway ‘reckoning’. And for all those saying that you can’t make change from the outside, I hope you’re not the same people praising Jagged cast for leaving, or demanding that they do leave.

I’m no particular Karen Olivo fan, mainly because of her unreliability issues as an actress, but she’s very talented, and I admire her stance on leaving. At least it seems genuine to me, compared to most of rest of the Broadway community, who only ever seem to ‘take action’ to virtue signal!