Into the Woods in San Diego 1986

[ChairinMain]

Posted: 7/3/13 at 3:24am

I just closed a run of Into the Woods. During our run, I started researching the evolution of the show as a side project. I am fascinated by the changes made to the show during the San Diego run, because the final project seems so well-put together, so intuitive, that I initially had a hard time believing that the show didn't just arrive fully-formed at the first draft. I've gotten ahold of some documentation from the out of town run: there's a video floating around the internet somewhere I took a look at, and a friend sent me a cd containing an audio capture. I also have a recording from the first Broadway Preview, which has quite a few textual anomalies, including Boom Crunch and plenty of cut dialogue. The two San Diego documents are clearly from different performances but they have more or less the same script, with only a few minor changes, so it doesn't really help me figure out "what happened when". So I thought I would ask the fine members of Broadwayworld who have memories of this production (which I don't since...uh...I wasn't actually alive at the time).

I have five questions that are kind of burning a hole in my skull:

1. In Look I Made a Hat, Sondheim states the Three Little Pigs were part of the show during this early phase, but I can't find any documentation confirming exactly how. Does anyone have any memory of how they were involved? Was it just a walk-on, similair to their appearance in the 2002 revival, or was it more involved?

2. In most cast lists I've found (including my 1986 copy of Theatre World, which was among the books I inherited from a friend of my mother's) the cast list for the San Diego run has not one wolf but three: The one who sings "Hello Little Girl" (played by John Cunningham, who was also the Narrator and Stewart), and two other wolves played by Merle Louise and Joy Franz (Granny/Cinderella's Mother/Giant and Stepmother, respectively). This intrigues me, especially due to a line cut from the finished script: Little Red, when she is discussing her new cape late in act one, mentions that she and her granny had to defend themselves from another wolf, and refers to this wolf as female. Does anyone know what these two She-wolves were about?

3. Does anyone know if, by the time the show closed, the Baker's Wife had progressed from dying by Poison Apple to getting crushed by the Giant?

4. When was Children Will Listen put into the show? For Broadway previews or during the San Diego run? The Documentation I have has a very different act two finale, which does not include this song.

5. A related question pertains to the fate of the cut song Second Midnight: The documentation I have from San Diego does not include the song, but there is a recording I have found on Youtube of the song featuring what is very clearly the Broadway cast (the Witch is audibly Bernadette Peters). Was this song cut from the show in San Diego or tried out in previews?

These are the questions I'm really hoping to answer but I would gladly welcome any recollections from those who saw Into the Woods either in San Diego or in Previews on Broadway. Or, in fact, recollections from those who saw the Broadway production at all. Thanks for your help, in advance.

[PattyO'Furniture]

Posted: 7/3/13 at 10:09am

Wow, some great questions. I'd never known about the Baker's Wife dying by poison apple or the two she-wolves. I hope someone can answer you.

[JN1]

Posted: 7/3/13 at 5:19pm

wow, didnt know about lots of stuff mentioned above! would you be able to put the scripts up online? would love to look at them

in the meantime, if you listen to sondheims interviews with the american theatre wing, and other creatives who were involved in it, i remember them talking about second midnight and the change from boom crunch to last midnight. If i remember correctly bernadette said the first time she sang last midnight was on the night critics were in, the whole cast were in the wings watching her!

[lemiz3001]

Posted: 7/3/13 at 5:50pm

I think I can answer one of your questions, question five. I'm pretty sure (anyone correct me if I'm wrong), that second midnight was never performed in the show. The recording of Bernie singing second midnight is from an audio of a rehearsal with the Broadway cast. There are also recordings of the Witches Rap and Hello Little Girl from presumably the same rehearsal. I think Second Midnight was cut before the show went into previews.

[EricMontreal22]

Posted: 7/3/13 at 6:44pm

I was sure Second Midnight WAS in San Diego by the end, but not Children Will Listen (which of course comes from Second Midnight.) But it's been a very long time since I listened to my live recording.

I had never heard about the She-Wolves... The Three Little Pigs were basically a walk on, though. I beliueve Snow White had a bit more material (setting up the poison apple the Wife finds) and wasn't just in the ending.

I'm sure you know this, but there was a demo recording made from a handful of songs cut. Most (all?) of it has been released commercially: The Into the Woods OBCR reissue has a different Giants in the Sky, Back to the Palace (ie not Steps of the Palace) and Boom Crunch. And on the Sondheim box set The Story So Far they have Have to Give Her Someone, Interesting Questions and Second Midnight.

These recordings are another question--the booklets say they were demos for the show, but I've heard from several reliable sources (here?) that they were done for a planned children's storybook audio release in the late 80s that never happened--which begs the question why they returned to many earlier versions... (Sondheim isn't a ton of help--the Into the Woods section of Look I Made a Hat seems to be missing the most materail of any of the shows listed.)

[IronMan]

Posted: 7/3/13 at 10:21pm

I saw it in previews in NY (and several times later) and used to have a preview audio recording (NEVER lend this stuff if you want it back!) of it as well. This is what I recall being cut/changed:

-There was a scene where the group finds Red's Grandmother pinned and dying under a tree- it was a little too dark, I guess. BAKER: "Don't look, little girl!" RED (excitedly): "But I've never SEEN a dead body!"

-The Baker's Wife made it back to the group after her tryst with the Prince - and was seen and is tattled on by the Witch. The couple argues, then the Giant passes by and she's killed while protecting the baby from a falling tree.

-"Boom, Crunch!" was still in- and after the Witch went down a lift, her double (in hag makeup) would come back up and run off. The song didn't work, and it took ages to make the switch between actresses- I wasn't surprised when that was cut.

-There was a reprise of 'Your Fault' where they devise the plan to kill the second Giant

-In the Mysterious Man's last scene, he'd say, "When first I appear I seem mysterious, but when revealed (pulls off his rags to reveal the Narrator)... I am nothing serious."

-And the cut I really miss: at the end, the new 'family' is being organized, and the Narrator says, "And the child cried often..." Baker: "Yes. You did. Now, finish telling the story, son." Still gives me goosebumps.

[Visceral_Fella]

Posted: 7/3/13 at 10:36pm

-And the cut I really miss: at the end, the new 'family' is being organized, and the Narrator says, "And the child cried often..." Baker: "Yes. You did. Now, finish telling the story, son." Still gives me goosebumps.

Oh wow, what a cool twist!

Updated On: 7/3/13 at 10:36 PM

[darquegk]

Posted: 7/3/13 at 11:54pm

It is a very cool twist, but I can definitely see audiences being confused by the layers of meta-ness. Is the Narrator still eaten by the Giant in this staging? We have the Narrator becoming the Mysterious Man who is the Baker's Father, who becomes the Narrator again and is eaten by the Giant, reappears again as the Baker's Father/Mysterious Man, becomes the Narrator and then is revealed to have been the Baby.

Since not all of these characters are separate entities at all, I can see how this would become messy pretty fast.

[EricMontreal22]

Posted: 7/3/13 at 11:57pm

It really does sound like all the changes were just made to streamline and clarify plot--which for a show like this, really does make sense. (Darque the narrator is dropped, not eaten :P )

[beautywickedlover]

Posted: 7/4/13 at 12:05am

"1. In Look I Made a Hat, Sondheim states the Three Little Pigs were part of the show during this early phase, but I can't find any documentation confirming exactly how. Does anyone have any memory of how they were involved? Was it just a walk-on, similair to their appearance in the 2002 revival, or was it more involved?"

The Three Little Pigs also appeared in the 2010 Open Air Theatre production at Regent's Park in London. They are seen at 0:06 of this video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lYvq_pDcVbw

[Jordan Catalano]

Posted: 7/4/13 at 12:19am

"and the Narrator says, "And the child cried often..." Baker: "Yes. You did."

Yeah, this is one of my favorite cut moments from the show.

This show is fairly well documented on video from it's performances in '86, to the very early Broadway previews and all the way until right before it closed, so it's easy (and absolutely fascinating) to trace and watch the evolution of this show. I've said before that if you go back and look at it before it was frozen and while it was still changing, it's not a "great" show. It's a decent show with great music (and some really bad songs that were thankfully cut) but you can tell the audiences just weren't buying it. Reactions were tepid, at best and that can be blamed on the shows pacing. For a show that in the PBS video captures every single thing that makes it (for me) the absolute perfect show and Sondheim's best ever, the early incarnations of it just aren't great.

But even looking at the 2nd Broadway preview of the show (only 3 or so weeks before it officially opened and was frozen) it's absolutely nothing like the show we know today. Those few weeks must have been absolutely agonizing for the cast since SO much of the show was changed in that short time. And it's really a testament to Sondheim & Lapine for knowing exactly what wasn't working and exactly how to fix it. Those two are geniuses.

[ChairinMain]

Posted: 7/4/13 at 1:18am

For all those interested, I've transcribed the changes from the San Jose documentation I have...It is a 44 page document I'm thinking about trying to publish it, but if anyone is interested in reading it, pm me.

I've got an audio recording from Broadway previews dated October 10th. The Show began previews on September 29th, and by the time of the tenth, the show is pretty much as is. There's a few extra bits of dialogue and some stray lyric changes, but the only major change, if I recall, is that Boom Crunch is still in the show. At this performance, it segues into the last verse of LAST MIDNIGHT, rather abruptly but bringing the number to a cool closer. So that means the show was basically finished about ten days into previews. That's massively impressive.

Iron Man - The Scene with Granny's Death is in the San Diego production (she dies of old age, not from being pinned under a tree) and contains not only the amazing gag of Red trying to see the dead body but also this gem:

Baker: The old woman's dead.
Wife: Oh no! How's the girl?
Baker: Fascinated!

Hee.

My other favorite cut from San Jose is a tiny line: after Watching the Narrator get dropped, the Witch shruggs and says "Whoops."

Jordan - Are you saying a video from early broadway previews exists? really? Oh...oh my.

[JohnyBroadway]

Posted: 7/4/13 at 1:35am

Sort of off topic, but when are we gonna get another one of these.....

[EricMontreal22]

Posted: 7/4/13 at 1:54am

I would love to see the .doc of changes. (My weird account on here can accept pms but not send them out...)

[PattyO'Furniture]

Posted: 7/4/13 at 12:02pm

[PattyO'Furniture]

Posted: 7/4/13 at 12:04pm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H9IGLtHQnqc - "Boom! Crunch!" Pre-Broadway

[PattyO'Furniture]

Posted: 7/4/13 at 12:05pm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frvYKha626M - "Witch's Transformation" Pre-Broadway (optional link + link title not working for me...sorry!)

[PattyO'Furniture]

Posted: 7/4/13 at 12:13pm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6xUjGXawwos - Just for fun (off-topic): Dick Cavett & Betsy Joslyn - "Witch's Rap"

[ChairinMain]

Posted: 7/5/13 at 5:36am

Getting back to the narrator/Baker's son Mash-up moment:

I had read about this, but its so cool to hear how they actually pulled it off. In the performances that had this is, was he still killed by the Giant? What was the timeline? Killed by the Giant, revealed to be the Mysterious Man, resumes narrating at the end and is revealed to be the son?

I wonder if those behind the London/Delacourte production knew about this when they came up with the twist at the end of their production?

[MagicalMusical]

Posted: 10/30/13 at 9:47pm

I saw this one video of the pre-Broadway show and in it were some very different costumes which I liked more than the final Broadway ones. I want to find the video that had the alternate costume for Cinderella (for the ball). I found a video that had her in that costume and she was singing something to the tune of the beginning of "Moments in the Woods" including the lyrics "it got hotter" in reference to her and the Prince. that video was taken down last time I checked, so I'm wondering if anyone has some video or pictures of that costume or the very same moment where she's singing those lyrics or something. Thnaks for any help.